Starting my journal

[Three Roses]

Being terrified of what others will think. That my situation is too weird, too much, too abnormal to speak about and want to be around.

I'm sorry you're going thru this. You deserve to be heard and validated. 

[marta1234]

Being terrified of what others will think. That my situation is too weird, too much, too abnormal to speak about and want to be around.

I am sorry you had to feel this way. No one should feel this isolated or have these thoughts. But most of us have. I know I have, most times when I was young in school, I would wonder these same thoughts that why I could never find support in my "friends"  when I'd talk about home troubles.

The world is not safe, no no no.
I'm at breaking point.

Reading this, I just want to give you a hug, if it's ok.  I hope you feel better soon, or find some relief. And as 3R said, you deserve to be heard and validated.

[holidayay]

Thank you for the gentle kind words. As always, they are comforting 

I'm waiting for my taxi to work. Being brave this morning. Woke up early and journalled a lot of the rushing, racing thoughts.

Trigger warning - child abuse

The more stronger and independent I am getting, the more angry I am getting at how things were. How it could so easily have been different. Questioning what I could have done.
What breaks my heart the most is witnessing how my sister treated her kids. Her rage and anger was incomprehensible. She was verbally and physically abusive. If her kids acted out, this would enrage her even more and she would claim this 'is nothing to do with me, this is THEIR personality'. One time, my other sister got tired of my nephew misbehaving and complained how naughty and rude he could be. His mum hit the roof and hit him. THIS enraged me. Time and time and time again, I would try to tell her: you can't treat kids like this, you need to be patient, you can't scream at them in this frightening way, you can't hit them....all of which would fall on deaf ears. This time I couldn't hold it in any longer. I ran at her and pulled her away from hitting him and screamed at her 'YOU DO NOT HIT KIDS!'.
I left the house shaken and so depressed. I couldn't stand it any longer. I was home from university, trying to relax and dealing with the ever-present CPTSD symptoms and my family would never, ever let up.
Why didn't i do more? why didn't i call the police? why why why? should i have done more?

[Three Roses]

Dealing with dysfunction in others is extremely tricky! You say you were home from university so I assume you were only in your 20s - much too young to be dealing with family issues and the rage your sister was exhibiting. Her kids knew they had an ally in you, perhaps that was enough at the time. Be gentle with yourself. ❤️

[holidayay]

Dealing with dysfunction in others is extremely tricky! You say you were home from university so I assume you were only in your 20s - much too young to be dealing with family issues and the rage your sister was exhibiting. Her kids knew they had an ally in you, perhaps that was enough at the time. Be gentle with yourself. ❤️

Thank you. Yes, I was in my 20s.
I just feel utterly heartbroken.
Got a call during work from the officer dealing with my case and about another sister's newborn baby who has been taken into foster care...they are going to the family courts. How has it come to this? I spent an hour with the chaplain crying and venting. How can things ever possibly feel positive ever again? All those years I spent fearful of the truth, living in denial and now I know why....i was fearful of the truth and it is far worse than I could ever have anticipated.

[Three Roses]

You are in control of only yourself. You cannot control the actions of others. If the behavior of others is causing you torment, may I suggest you look into the concept of codependency? Specifically, the book "Codependent No More" is extremely helpful. Anything by that author (Melody Beattie) would be worth a look. 

[sanmagic7]

holidayay,

we've all been in places and situations where there might have been more we could have done, but i truly believe we didn't because of how we'd been trained.  our training, our conditioning, how and what we've been taught about taking care of ourselves and others didn't leave much room for confidence, boundaries, or even knowing what's right or wrong.  the fear that was wrapped up in almost every aspect of our upbringing just didn't allow for us to do what we really wanted to do.

as 3r says, we can't control what others say or do.  we do what we can when we can, take care of ourselves and others as best we can.  at times in our lives it was much less than it might be now.  i think you did an amazingly courageous thing by confronting your sister at that time, and i give you a lot of credit for that.  it was at least one time when her child saw someone stand up for them and that's something they'll remember always.

i used to work w/ adolescents, and it was drummed into my head that if we could give a positive message to even one of them, we have changed something in their lives.  you did that for your nephew, and that's a lot.  it breaks my heart, too, to know about how much abuse continues to go on, and there's nothing i can do about it.  hopefully, those kids will grow up and get their own help for their abuse.  you have probably made it easier for at least one of them.

love and hugs, dear bach.

[holidayay]

holidayay,

we've all been in places and situations where there might have been more we could have done, but i truly believe we didn't because of how we'd been trained.  our training, our conditioning, how and what we've been taught about taking care of ourselves and others didn't leave much room for confidence, boundaries, or even knowing what's right or wrong.  the fear that was wrapped up in almost every aspect of our upbringing just didn't allow for us to do what we really wanted to do.

as 3r says, we can't control what others say or do.  we do what we can when we can, take care of ourselves and others as best we can.  at times in our lives it was much less than it might be now.  i think you did an amazingly courageous thing by confronting your sister at that time, and i give you a lot of credit for that.  it was at least one time when her child saw someone stand up for them and that's something they'll remember always.

i used to work w/ adolescents, and it was drummed into my head that if we could give a positive message to even one of them, we have changed something in their lives.  you did that for your nephew, and that's a lot.  it breaks my heart, too, to know about how much abuse continues to go on, and there's nothing i can do about it.  hopefully, those kids will grow up and get their own help for their abuse.  you have probably made it easier for at least one of them.

love and hugs, dear bach.

Thank you  it has been one of the most difficult things to process and get my head around.
I know on a logical level you're absolutely right...its just so, so awful to face upto the fact that young kids live with abusers and its so complicated to try get them out of that, when no-one deserves that.
I just wish I wasn't so acutely aware of it. Its hard to focus on little else atm.

But thank you, words like yours are helping so much at the moment

[holidayay]

You are in control of only yourself. You cannot control the actions of others. If the behavior of others is causing you torment, may I suggest you look into the concept of codependency? Specifically, the book "Codependent No More" is extremely helpful. Anything by that author (Melody Beattie) would be worth a look. 

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll look into it. I never thought to look at it this way, I always through co-dependency was feeling like you could only be regulated through a relationship but now you mention it....maybe this relates to other types of relationships too, not just romantic.

Gosh, I feel like I've got a mountain of work still to do on so many parts of me. Every mountain I climb, there's another and another and another looming in between me and 'peace'. I'm so tired.

[holidayay]

Constant dreams of exclusion

My symptoms have taken on a new flavour. Sigh. CPTSD: the gift that keeps on giving.

I am now having constant, endless dreams of being excluded. That guy at medical school who loved to continue the concept of 'popularity' and 'cliques' and would only talk to people/invite them to parties if he deemed them worthy enough. The popular crowd were rich, took plenty of drugs, and all lived by the same rules, rules that were completely alien to me. If you didn't already have the memo, you were out.
Then there was the group at work who giggled and flirted and whose sense of humour evaded me and who would brazenly ignore me.
Or the girl at work who did not deem me 'worthy' of being added to her instagram but instead wanted me as a number to increase her amateur business page.

People say all the time 'ignore people like that'. That's very hard to right now. I feel like I've had to ignore how I feel about feeling excluded my whole life. Its easier to ignore new people when you already have a solid base of love and support. I'm sick of yet again being misunderstood.
And even more than that, feeling toxic shame. It feels embarrassing to feel so deeply about things that seem like a high school issue. Yet they are affecting me so deeply. I'm beginning to wonder whether I have EUPD.

I can't bear to be excluded anymore.
I can't bear the feeling of being unwanted, unliked, uncared for, unseen.

To go through a childhood of this and then be told 'its now your responsibility to heal' is so madly unfair. Apparently there was an invisible line I crossed when I turned 18 that now made it my personal responsibility to chase understanding for incredibly complex, traumatic matters. All the while, seeing people from significantly less traumatic families experiencing no dilemma in reaching out for support and guidance for things that seem to pale in comparison.
They say life is unfair....I don't think it is. I think Life is neutral. I think our set up and human organisation makes it one way or another.

I'm getting so frustrated at everything again.
I woke up with a headache at the back of my head. The kind that I describe as feeling like you've been hit by a frying pan several times at the back of your head.

Its not fair.
And if one more person tells me to be my own mother, my own parent, give myself love, I may lose my rag.
How does it make sense that a person who has been taught to hate themselves, now weakened and ravaged by disturbed sleep, constant flashbacks, and isolation is expected to naturally have an abundance of love to tap into?
How paradoxical. It just seems like a cop-out, a way for others/the mental health system to evade any 'burdens'.
I wouldn't dream of telling a patient in my care who was haemorrhaging to be his own donor, transfer his own blood, conjure up more blood out of nowhere because 'no-one else will do it for you'.
How is this any different?

I am very frustrated.

[holidayay]

Letter to my sister

You never spoke as a child. But my god, did you make up for it when you got older. You were like a hungry bear, starved of affection and love, on a ravenous hunt to feed yourself. I understand the pain you had; I'd had the same starvation.
But you...you wanted all the resources and support and energy that you could get your hands on. You were ruthless about shutting down anyone or anything who threatened to take a piece of that pie - who dared to also need space, time and attention - because as far as you were concerned, your poverty of love and comfort now made you more entitled than everyone else. It's true mum and our older siblings often pitted us against one another for their own gains. Their own manipulations and amusement and to keep themselves entertained. It was sick. Whenever things got too calm, too quiet, too 'boring', our mum would lash out and make a problem of one of us, turning us against one another in a smear campaign that was always sickening. Full of rage and venom.

But you didn't want to share. You recognised more than most in the family what you called my kind and understanding nature. That makes me angry to think of now, as if you recognised what you stumbled upon and could harvest for your own benefit. You had no problem in making your problems my problem. Our problems. Emotionally, mentally, psychologically, financially, physically, you wanted and demanded aid and assistance. When you got it, you would drop us - me - like a hot cake and go running back to your narcissistic ex to continue on your desperate attempts to extract his love and attention. Inevitably, once the idealisation phases were over, and the abuse would re-start, you would once again need assistance. And it was a LOT. A heavy burden. Endless hours on the phone, texts, emails. You didn't even realise or recognise it as a 'thing' - just something you deserved and entitled.
Nothing showed that more than when it was my turn to grow up and be faced with problems of my own. I'll never forget the naiivety I had about our relationship being reciprocal being shut down VERY fast and cruelly by you. When I told you how depressed and confused I felt, after I left home and couldn't focus on my studies. How I didn't have any money and was struggling to pay the bills. How lonely I felt. This was when I first saw your true colours with regards to the one-way nature of your expectations related to who gave and who received in the relationship.
You said it was 'my fault'. 'This is your problem, your fault, you can get a job' and refused to know. You did nothing of the hours-long soothing and comforting I used to give you, my heart crying in sorrow for you when you experienced difficulties. Knowing that if I didn't give you comfort, damn sure no-one else in the family would.
How could you never remember those times when it was me in need?
How could you betray me and abandon me like that?
That was the first time in my emancipated life I experienced that cold, hard loneliness that I have now grown accustomed to. That awful realisation creeping up on me, draining the blood and soul and life out of me, as all hopes of safety and comfort in others seeped away, and the cold reality of a dark abyss luring me in, convincing me this is where I really belonged.

You kept on doing that over the years.
And I kept on with the one-sided dance. I don't know why, in retrospect. I guess I didn't know differently. You cemented further in my mind the childhood messages I received: that i don't deserve everything, but dysfunctional people around me do. They deserve everything - their portion and mine and beyond.
When I broke down after my entanglement with an abusive boyfriend, you seemed irritated that your centre stage in this department was threatened. I had never ever seen anyone as obsessive and rigidly *-bent on keeping up with the cycles of abusive relationship as you. You and D - your ex - it went on for years. I wonder now if a small part of you loved the up and down oscillations of it all. How it gave you a thrill. You were forever on a chase. Anticipating, waiting, trying. You'd get back together, it'd be great than poof! back to the abuse, him disappearing, and you turning into a wreck. It was like you wanted me - and my life - to be on hand, on a stand-still, for the oscillations. Me having my own heartbreak wasn't accommodating for this.
You even tried to convince me this was true love - because my abusive entanglment with that guy mirrored your own i suppose. In my naiive and desperate state, i believed you. Read the books and resources you gave me on 'twin flames' (a load of rubbish). Started behaving like you. Chasing and hounding him. It didn't seem right, and eventualy, after one particular nasty message from him, I made my mind up to decide for myself what I would expect. I blocked him and took a deep breath, bracing myself for the recovery.

I didn't know how hard it would be. That being abused and abandoned by a partner who mirrors our early life experiences rips off all the bandages over our early wounds. The abandonement I felt was horrific. I couldn't study. I had just entered medical school, my dream come true, and I had never been so lost, so depressed. I had to suspend. In my bad state, I came home, to Mum. Desperate. I thought if she saw how bad i was, her and the others would let up. They didn't, of course. I lay in bed for days on end, trying to block it all out. I begged for you to visit. I told you i'd meet you in coffee shops, so you wouldn't have to deal with them. You didn't want to. You called me 'negative' and 'depressing' and that if i really felt suicidal, i would have killed myself by now.

Every word you said to me and about me to our other sister broke my already broken heart into even smaller pieces that I am still trying to piece back together. It felt like abandonment upon abandonment. It was so much pain and horror that I felt compelled to rationalise it on you behalf, so I could avoid the truth that you just didn't care about me or couldn't or weren't willing to.
But the truth is, you were cold and callous. After I eventually left my bed, I would try to take daily walks. I would walk around in a specific type of lonely haze, to the churchyard, and stare at the old graves. They felt as lonely and abandoned and forgotten about as I did. I would cry hot angry frustrated tears and felt like my soul was being destroyed when no-one ever turned up to wipe my tears away.
There was no-one coming to rescue me, there was no miracle awaiting where mum or you or anybody else in the family were about to change, and help me. So, feeling shaky and still traumatised, I resolved to put on my thinking caps and put all my baggage aside until i had a safe space to weep and grieve. I looked up rooms to rent back in my university town. Took a deep breath and caught the coach there. The first time, I couldn't handle it, and ran back home. The second time, though, I knew I had to push through. Either be traumatised in a safe space, or in the space that caused my trauma, i thought. I chose the first.
That's when you did for once show up. You drove me back there. Not after complaining and telling me that i was asking too much, that the 1.5 hour drive was too much for you. I convinced you with promises of paying for petrol and to treat you with dinner anywhere you liked in exchange. Even though you were the one with the full-time job. I couldn't understand why you couldn't just help me because i needed you to! How could you be so cold? You had already had your first episode of mania and I had helped you - I was the only one who turned up for you, called the police when you vanished into the forest, with no money, late at night. Forfeitted an exam to stay with the police to track you down, to make sure I got you back safely. Even the policeman took one look at us after you returned and said to you 'you have a sister here who loves you VERY much'.
And he was right. I did, I still do. But I don't love your actions that are seeped in selfishness and callousness that have hurt me deeply.

You had more manic episodes over the years. And again and again, no-one else but me wanted anything to do with you. During my medical school finals, I was in and out of your mental ward, instead of revising. I failed out of so much stress. A whole academic year wasted. You acted like it was no big deal.
Can you imagine if the tables were turned? You called me 'too much, too negative, too depressing' countless times...so how did you view this? How could you act like it was no big deal, make zero acknowledgments of how stressful and how much resources I gave to you? Because you are entitled.
Even before I cut you off, finally, when I cried on the phone and cried every night and begged for you to listen to me about my nightmares and flashbacks of the abuse. You told me you loved and cared about my abusers (our siblings) and defiantly told me: what happened between you and them is between you guys, its not my problem. You wanted nothing to do with it. You were back in hospital...with another manic attack, after our family, including the SAME SIBLINGS didn't want to look after you and I had cut you off. You'd been picked up off the streets, this time with drugs and pregnant, apparently. I didn't know because I had decided to take time away from you, for my own sanity, and to focus on my resit year.
I became furious and asked you how can you say that, how could you not see I needed your support. I told you it was akin to me saying 'its between you and your bipolar when you get manic attacks, not my problem'. You went quiet when I said that. As usual when challenged and you couldn't wriggle your way out of it, or find yet another way to blame me. You then said: anyway, look at you....if leaving the family helps so much why are you STILL in therapy and why haven't you healed?'
The sheer audacity left me speechless. Says the sister who is STILL in touch with the family and is STILL having manic attacks that they do not help with and is now in her 3rd inpatient stay being involuntarily sectioned. If staying with the family IS the solution, then why haven't you healed and why are you still being sectioned? And this time even worse, pregnant by someone you barely knew, and with drugs!
You asked that question irritably because you want to live life on your dysfunctional terms, and for everybody else who is willing - me in the past - to pick up the pieces. In order for me to do that, I have to be willing and available. How DARE I STILL be needing therapy and STILL be 'bleating on about abuse' and how dare I not magically be healed enough so it can ALL GO BACK to just being about you?
Yes, the audacity of me. The audacity of my nervous system to be fried after years and years of multi-modality abuse. How dare I be affected. How dare I even think to have needs. How dare I not have been perfect and never need assistance - despite the multitude of abuse?

I realised its because you have narcissistic traits just like our mum. Just like our other family members. You don't have the empathy.
That last heart-break was the final heart-break I was willing to take from you, sister.
For many years, I believed you that I was depressing, negative, awful, irritating to be around when I had needs. These were most likely the projections you had about yourself because of mum and your ex.
Well, you can take them back. You wanted to pass it on to me and I rejected it.
And guess what? You were wrong. I am none of these things. I have friends who tell me otherwise and show me otherwise consistently. I have patients who thank me and show me how much my caring nature means to them consistently. I had colleague feedback that makes me feel illuminiated after you blew out my candle.
Having needs does not make me depressing, it makes me human.
Needing reciprocal support doesn't make me negative, it makes me human.
Caring for others is not a demand and expectation, its something i now choose more wisely to invest in, so I don't end up heartbroken in the way you broke my heart.
I can sometimes be strong and help others AND can also need strength and support shown to me in turn.
I deserve that and am worth it and you are too, but there is far too much you throw out that gets in the way between your needs and having them met. Obstacles  - dangerous ones that threaten to hurt and damage the people who try to navigate them.
And its exactly that that makes you even less entitled to getting those things. Because nothing justifies hurting others in the psychological terrorising ways that you hurt me.

[sanmagic7]

hey, holidayay,  i hear and feel your frustration, especially about the idea of us being expected to 'take care of' ourselves when we've never been shown how that even looks!  i've told my t several times, already, how good it feels to have someone looking out for me, taking care of me.  i didn't even realize how badly i've been craving that in my life.  my d also looks out for me, and i just bust out crying sometimes when she says or does something kind to me. 

i wish i could help you more.  all i can do is send a virtual hug filled with love and caring.

[holidayay]

Thank you sanmagic. Your understanding and compassion in your replies and virtual hugs mean so much and help so much 
It really does feel so lovely to be looked after. This ranges from things like being listened to, being understood, someone offering me a ride home from work, my colleague telling me he wants to bake a cake for my birthday...its all so new and nice and h-e-al-i-n-g.
I've had a better day, have been able to relax and symptoms subsided. Spent the past few days writing furiously and going on walks, even when I felt like utter rubbish and my head was crammed. I have to say, the light exercise and bright weather helped a lot. The writing helps with the emotional purging. And spoke for hours on the phone to my (very patient) friend.
Even slept better yesterday.
About to get ready to go to work now, for a night shift. I took an extra shift for extra money - I had this moment in work where at first I was being haunted by the memories of my pre-med school years, having no money, being so depressed and not knowing i had PTSD - dragging myself off to work at a very physically demanding job that didn't pay amazingly; the memories would make me remember how scared and angry i felt that i just couldn't go home to rest and recover from feeling so utterly depressed when the thought hit me: 'you did all that to look after your inner child. To keep her away from the dangerous situations, and to save up so you - and she - would be a bit more financially secure and that would be one less thing for you - and her - to stress about.' It comforted me SO much and made my fear and anger melt away. That got me thinking about doing an extra shift now when I feel up to it: this is another way in which I am looking after me, after little holidayay - securing our financial position so as to be able to afford the therapy when we need it, and stability, to not have the pounding chest and nervousness over how much things cost and what I can and cannot afford when it comes to basic essentials and deposits and rents and bills.....and this thought makes me feel warm and looked after.
Like I really am -reparenting myself. To feel that I am deserving of warmth, stability, safety, accessibility to help and security and a worry-free life...and not have to settle for living in cheaper, troubled areas again there is more likely to be triggering factors such as young kids shouting obscenities and stones at strangers, or thefts in the areas, or loud neighbours congregating/playing their stereo system loud in the car parked outside my room that it startles me and i cannot sleep but its more dangerous to ask them to quieten down please.

No, I deserve the peace and tranquility of an environment that is more appropriate for healing. And today, at least for now, I am feeling I deserve this and more hopeful than the past few weeks that I am working towards it, that it's within my sights in the future, and that it really will, all be okay in the end.

hey, holidayay,  i hear and feel your frustration, especially about the idea of us being expected to 'take care of' ourselves when we've never been shown how that even looks!  i've told my t several times, already, how good it feels to have someone looking out for me, taking care of me.  i didn't even realize how badly i've been craving that in my life.  my d also looks out for me, and i just bust out crying sometimes when she says or does something kind to me. 

i wish i could help you more.  all i can do is send a virtual hug filled with love and caring.

[sanmagic7]

i hope you can continue to feel you deserve a healing environment, care and kindness.  i know these things can go up and down, but hopefully they'll start getting to be more consistent.  i don't doubt that as you keep working toward that, it'll happen.  wishing you all the best!  love and hugs, my dear.   

[holidayay]

Sanmagic - they definitely do go up and down, I've realised this is the nature of the beast with this one. Accepting it helps, as opposed to getting stuck into it when the ups happen then feeling in shock and disappointed and swept off my feet when the downs happen again.

I've had disturbed sleep since doing my extra night shift. My sleep is already all over the place - but I've noticed any disturbance at all makes the dreams more vivid, detailed, convoluted, full of emotions.
Yesterday's was about my brother. My brothers were always involved in petty crime - speeding, driving without a licence, hitting someone or another...and as a result, they constantly were dodging police. They hated them, and their anti-law enforcement rhetoric at home made me convinced I should hate them too. They were out 'to get' my brothers and were so unfair and always getting involved in other people's business because they 'are pigs' and 'love to take advantage'. I felt a misplaced sense of loyalty and protection towards my 'poor brothers' who 'just wanted to have fun and live their life' but were constantly being harassed by police. Not realising things like having a licence, insurance papers etc actually served a purpose. Funnily enough, my family left out teaching me about such things that were grievances to them.

In my dream, a big burly policeman had come to the house AGAIN and my brother was scared and frightened and we were trying to hide him. I thought I had a job to be 'adult' and 'authoritative' to help him - i faced the officer and repeated things i'd heard on tv, asking for a warrant to enter, wanting to see his ID. Then rushed up to tell my brother to jump from the window into the river.
Real life wasn't exactly like that but not far off. I was constantly terrified and anxious everytime the police rang. It was one more thing that shrouded me in shame and felt like it set me apart even more from 'normal' kids. And my brothers and larger family would commend me for being this mini-accomplice - a positive feedback system that in my little mind, made me think that this is what i needed to be in order to be seen and receive love and recognition.
This spunky, sharp-witted, mini-lawyer, to protect them and cover for their crimes.

Never did they once think that this was NOT THE JOB OF A CHILD. Nor did they ever stop to consider the terrifying and anxious effects it had on me. No, I was either invisible or beneficial, those were my options.
I still to this day, sometimes struggle to believe I can just turn up, with no particularly significant purpose for others...I still feel like people are ridiculing me if they are just being ordinary, talking about everyday things and actually listening to me....like its a joke and they're all gonna pop out and say 'fooled you!' at the end of it. Its so bizarre and unnerving.

When I was 12/13, suddenly the family was abuzz with excitement. All I heard about was 'The Credit Card'. My sister and brothers and their friends had somehow got hold of 'The Credit Card' which somehow had no endless limit to it. The finer details were of course kept quiet, vague, ignored. The days of endless shopping started. Every time my sister went to pay, though I didn't know fully what was going on, i sensed something was wrong about it all and felt queasy and sick with anxiety.
She asked me if I wanted my hair done. I had never been to a salon before, i was so excited! I said yes of course i did. She told me her fiance had mentioned to her that i was a pretty girl. I was unsure how to take this - was this creepy, or was he just being nice? After I came out of the salon, she came with him to 'show' my new hair. They were both nice and friendly but something about it made me feel so uneasy.
Usually we weren't 'allowed' to talk to him. She was very jealous and our family were weirdly conservative and religious - talking to men was seen as a very big deal.
It took me a long time to get over being nervous and afraid and feeling like I was doing something 'wrong' simply by talking to the opposite sex. It felt like being sexualised far too young; as though the mere acknowledgement of the opposite sex heralded the dawn of promiscuity, or that guys would think of me as brazen or immediately label me as 'wanting them' simply by talking to them.

How utterly ridiculous. For many years, I believed I was 'honourable' by 'staying clean' and keeping a distance from guys and not even having them as friends. When all along, barely any guy even thought like this! Not the ones around me anyway. To realise I could talk to a guy and not have it mean anything explicit, 'out there' was a huge step at first.