Anger at Covid Deniers.

[Blueberry]

I'm sorry, Phoebes. Sending support and hoping that by some miracle your niece isn't a carrier. 

[Three Roses]

But if I had said no, and no one had gotten sick, I would be the "liberal who wants to live in fear."

I'm right there with you! It is maddening to go out in public and see crowds of people with no masks. It feels so disrespectful to me, so utterly selfish. I already have a hard time being around people and this makes it even more difficult.

The ones that say we're living in fear just because we want to be considerate (as I'm sure you know, masks are to keep those who have it but have no symptoms from spreading it) and as safe as possible really irritate me. We wear seat belts, use sunscreen, lock our doors at night,  and so do they, but somehow using a mask is different from these preventive safeguards.  This blind double standard triggers me greatly.

[sanmagic7]

i heard someone talking on the news the other day about when we were fighting against the polio virus.  he said we acted as a community against it - everyone knew what precautions to take, and we all did so, even without governmental mandates and the like. (i remember my mom telling us not to drink really cold water after we'd been out playing hard).  he believes that the idea of community is what's missing during this time.

it's a shame, really.  taking care of oneself and others is, to me, the opposite of weakness or fear.  it's consideration, caring, and the strength to do as much as possible to help ourselves and others stay well.  there have been many rules set in place to eliminate the hazards of second-hand smoke in public places - how is wearing a mask any different?  smokers have been inconvenienced, but they complied. 

here's hoping everyone is healthy and takes precautions that simply make sense during this dreadful time in our history.

[Phoebes]

I totally agree. In my travels I've seen tons of people wearing masks. I've never seen anyone picketing to be allowed to spread germs. Until now.

Also, it's just the notion that so many just HAVE to go shopping, eat out, etc. WHY? Out small businesses are staying afloat with takeout and curbside and other options. It's this "defiance" or even denial that drive all these people to go "I'll show them! I'm goin' TOOBIN' with a million others, and then going to my family reunion!"

There is more to the backstory of my frustrations over this, but I am seeing I live in an extremely ignorant and selfish location in the world. YUCK.

[Kizzie]

It is defiance and denial and it is frightening that so many are anti-government, anti-science, me first.  It seems to me now after watching these folks during COVID that narcissism has taken root in society far beyond anything I had ever imagined and THAT keeps me up at night.

As those of us here who suffered N abuse know, it is near impossible to get N's to listen to any kind of reason, to abide by the social contract if it doesn't suit them (and which we all need to be able to live together), to understand they are not extra special and smarter than everyone else, and that their rights/wants do not trump yours and mine. 

How on earth do you turn mass NPD around? That's the question that haunts me right now. The only thing that ever worked for me with regard to N's in my life was to walk away and we can't do that in this kind of situation. 

IMO we're going to have to: become louder about calling them out; better at identifying them and pushing back personally, socially, even legally; keep them out of positions of power; prevent /intervene in childhood trauma/abuse/neglect that leads to the development of NPD, etc.

COVID has been an eye opener in so many ways, I just hope we will learn from this about the danger of those with NPD to those around them. 

[I like vanilla]

I hear where you are coming from but object to the idea that those of us not wearing masks must be 'in denial' or 'not bothering'. I have extremely good reasons for NOT wearing a mask. Terrible things were done to me in childhood and having to wear a mask now is HUGELY TRIGGERING FOR ME. I feel angry that people assume that my not wearing a mask is because I don't care or can't be bothered. I don't wear a mask because I would like to stay in my body and not have to deal with emotional flashbacks for days afterward.

Consider that many of us have VERY GOOD REASONS FOR NOT WEARING A MASK. Reasons that have NOTHING to do with being uncaring or lazy. This physical-distancing has been very difficult for me - for all of us - financially, emotionally, psychologically, spiritually and physically. I am really disappointed that on this type of site, of all places, I need to explain that mental health matters and that triggers are real, and that judging people for things you do not understand is patently unfair. Many of us have good reasons for not wearing masks and those reasons have nothing to do with apathy or laziness.

I get what you're saying and I'm sorry that my post triggered you. However there is a lot of denial round about on Covid. Just think of a certain number of well-known English-speaking politicians... I doubt they leave masks off and shake hands etc because they know they're about to get an EF. The business owner next door to me says "I'm not frightened, I don't need to wear a mask." We pass in the same narrow corridor. I can't avoid him, nor can my clients.

In my post which you replied to, I wrote that I'm triggered about being ridiculed for wearing a mask - which has happened a few times - and for worrying that people think I'm gullible for believing that I need to wear one. That's a very big trigger for me. So I DO understand about mental health issues and wanting to avoid EFs. I have cptsd too!!
ime people with cptsd can trigger each other. I'm really sorry that my post triggered you, later on today when I have more time I'll look at my original post again and see if I can change it a bit to be less triggering or less judgemental.

Thank you. It is a conundrum, eh? There is a total double-bind happening where I live right now, and it seems in many other places. I get the stink eye at the store for not wearing a mask (and the last couple that did it also get totally in my space, completely disregarding the 2 m distancing rule, that health-care experts have been mandating from the start). On the other hand a close friend of mine got the stink eye for wearing a mask while she was grocery shopping. Plus, it sounds like you are getting worse than that, which I am sorry to hear.

The whole double-bind, no-win situation is one that those of us on this board have likely seen too much of already. It is a shame that it has flowed out to too much of the world around us. I wish more people would listen to what the public health official where I live says (not just about encouraging but not mandating masks). She says: "Be calm. Be kind. Be safe" I think that that sums it up fairly well.

[I like vanilla]

I hadn't thought it might be a trigger for some of us due to past trauma I Like Vanilla and I'm sorry it is for you given the times right now.    

I would say that for the vast majority of people who choose not to wear a mask, the underlying reason is not this and that's what is upsetting for so many of us. Our very health/lives are at stake and as we're seeing in the US and elsewhere right now COVID spreads when we don't take measures like wearing masks, physical distancing, hand washing, etc.

I've had a similar experience to BBs of being ridiculed for wearing one so it goes both ways. Anger and fear are high right now and we're each likely to be judged for wearing or not wearing a mask. Let's please try and remain a safe place to talk about how CPTSD affects us and be understanding and supportive of one another.

I would guess - and dearly hope - that no one else has the same trigger to facial masks that I do. However, I know of people who have had other terrible things done to them that would make wearing a face mask a trigger, and suspect there are many others who do also. I also personally know several people who have extreme sensitivity to materials, especially around their faces, which would make wearing of these masks extremely problematic for them physically. Similarly, I know people, for example, who are on the Asperger's-autism spectrum which, in their cases, makes wearing a face mask extremely problematic. I can also imagine numerous other reasons that people might have that would cause them to have difficulties in wearing a face mask. I cannot, and will not speak to "the vast majority" because the point is that those of us in the minority still count. Even if I were the only person on the entire planet who has reasons different than laziness and apathy for not wearing a face mask, I would still count. Our health and our lives matter too.

And, yes, I agree that it would be great if these boards were made safe for **everyone** using them, even those of us in the minority (and I would bet that even though I am the only one who said something I am not the only one who feels this way). Instead, I get severely triggered about a factor that is tied to a hugely traumatic set of childhood events, come to the forum to seek support, and instead read blanket judgments like disrespectful, entitled, selfish, ignorant, uncaring, inconsiderate, bullying, narcissistic, etc., etc., etc. about the very behaviour that is so triggering and problematic to me. Yes, some people are choosing not to wear masks for wrong reasons, but many of us have good reasons for not wearing masks, and there is little to no nuance in these discussions, just blanket judgments and condemnations. And yes, we still count even if we are in the minority. We all have our own stories and no one is able to read minds about what those stories are. Many of us have very good reasons to not wear masks that have nothing to do with entitlement and selfishness, nor apathy, lack of manners, etc., etc., etc. It is a shame that this board has become such an unsafe place for us to even try to discuss it.

[Phoebes]

Vanilla, maybe you could start a new thread about your topic at hand. This thread was about something entirely different than what you are talking about and wasn't meant as a personal attack on your perspective.

That said, regardless of anyone's reasons for wearing or not wearing masks, the science behind how the virus spreads is the same.

[Kizzie]

I don't think anyone here would disagree with your point that some people don't really have a choice about wearing masks I Like Vanilla. The topic in the thread was about being triggered by COVID deniers and those choosing not to wear masks and physical distance for selfish reasons and putting us at risk. We very much need to talk about that here because it is just so triggering based on our past abuse, the willful disregard for our health and well-being by others.

That said, I for one think it's important to understand the difference between making a choice and not really having a choice as in the examples you have provided. Any time we can be more informed is a good thing and understanding this means we have a deeper understanding of the issue overall.   

[Three Roses]

We very much need to talk about that here because it is just so triggering based on our past abuse, the willful disregard for our health and well-being by others.

My sibling attempted to drown me when I was 12, he was 17.  To this day, I have to tell myself to breathe anytime I see someone not able to breathe, especially if they're in water.

Because of that, wearing a mask did trigger me at first - but because I want to be respectful, sensitive to the needs of others, and because I know that my triggers are my own to deal with, I pressed on and got through it.

I also absolutely do know that there are some who just can not wear one. I just don't believe that most people who don't wear one are doing so because they can't, but because they won't. I feel disrespected and minimized every time I go out in public.

[Kizzie]

I also absolutely do know that there are some who just can not wear one. I just don't believe that most people who don't wear one are doing so because they can't, but because they won't. I feel disrespected and minimized every time I go out in public.

I wonder what it must feel like for medical professionals. They are gloved, gowned and masked from head to toe for the majority of their 12 hr shifts trying to save the lives of people terribly ill with COVID and more often that not losing the battle. And many of them have chosen to isolate from their families so they don't infect them. 

The ongoing exposure to the overwhelming demand on their skills and knowledge and the loss of so many to the virus, dealing with the fallout from governments not implementing suppression measures, and seeing people who choose not to wear a mask and/or physical distance has to be incredibly demoralizing if not traumatic. Like us when we realized the world was not as safe/sane as we thought and needed it to be, many of them are likely to be shifting their thinking and feeling, and adopting strategies to survive that aren't exactly healthy in 'normal' times. All this is to say I wouldn't be surprised if we see the development of C/PTSD in their ranks.

[Three Roses]

I agree. We've also spoken to many retail workers who feel they are being made to wear masks when their customers won't, effectively making them feel 2nd class.

[Kizzie]

I've seen some of the videos of store employees trying to deal with angry customers and frankly I don't think they pay them enough. 

I wonder if/when this behaviour will die down as the numbers of people testing positive for COVID continues to go up and more people become seriously ill/die.  At what point will reason kick in that individual rights in the middle of a pandemic are trumped by the collective health and well-being of everyone? It's one thing if you choose to risk illness/death yourself, but when you make a choice that may well result in severe illness or death for others it's quite another.

[Blueberry]

Phoebes, how is it going?

[Phoebes]

Hey Blueberry, thanks for asking! So, my sister has it. My nephew is showing symptoms. I may wind up with my niece all of July but that's ok. I'm a little more relieved that so far we have been well and I mostly was feeling horrible because of insomnia. We're still not in the clear but hopefully my nephew is not sick or will not have a bad time of it. I've heard where sometimes symptoms get better and then get worse or change. We'll see. I feel bad for everyone, and I feel somewhat bad I felt more anger than compassion at first. I feel like my sister had been more careful than I gave her credit. I have just been super diligent and probably have developed a lot of anxiety about it.