Don't Believe the Hype

[Phoebes]

I get really messed up over stuff like this. Dysregulated. Feeling all co-dependent-y and like a freak.

Is it just me, or do some things that apply to everyone else seem weird when we do it? Or at least when I do it.

For instance..the Brene Brown "Vulnerability" stuff..and others..lots of talk about how this makes us strong and approachable and lovable. But, when I show vulnerability, I feel like I seem weird, or needy, or like other think I'm looking for sympathy, or heaven forbid I actually share what is on my mind or what I go through, because that does not compute!

Or even just showing gratitude or giving someone a compliment that you admire for how good they are at what they do. I feel like some people recoil when I do this. Like I'm just genuinely saying I like how they play the guitar, and they distance themselves because heaven forbid, they think I may want more. Or to them seem like I do.

Socially, I really feel like I can't just be. And over time I'm withdrawing more and more because being withdrawn is more comfortable. But then, when I feel like I'm being too reclusive and reach out, I can't cope with getting rejected or ignored, or not reciprocated. Or a text taking two weeks to be answered. All any of it does is feed my insecurities and make me want to withdraw more and more. And numb out.

[dreamriver]

I'm so sorry to hear this Phoebes... I'm having that mindset too with all this quarantine stuff especially...

I always wonder what it is about non-CPTSD people that makes them feel like they can just "be"? To do whatever they want and what others think doesn't effect them? I envy it. wish I had that. They could stretch out their legs in a cramped van and take up so much room... And people would still be drawn to be social with them... They open up their vulnerabilities and somehow it's charismatic and not repelling. Why not for someone like me?

Even now, but most of my life too, being open and vulnerable either brought on attack or pushed people away. In some weird way I agree with you, I think it doesn't apply to us, and I'm starting to feel it's because I was "trained" by FOO to be invisible and  still enact that behavior every day, and people pick up on that: that I'm meant to be invisible. Even if I'm vulnerable it should be ignored, asking for attention is always out of character, or it's too much coming from a person like myself.

I don't know what to tell you. I'm in the same pain ... Big hugs to you, is all, and you're not alone 

[holidayay]

I always wonder what it is about non-CPTSD people that makes them feel like they can just "be"?

I think it might come back to how we see ourselves. For example, for the longest time, i felt like people's reactions/behaviours around me were a reflection of me. And then when speaking to others, who would share the same experiences with those people of how they are are unempathetic for example, i realised that the difference between me and 'non-cptsd' people is that i internalise it, and it reinforces old, early memories and makes them resurface and THAT's where the end result is different between me and them, because all the in-between starts of a chain-reaction of bad thoughts, feelings etc.

Its really tough being caught up in it, though. It hurts so much. I read that in the middle of a trauma-reaction/trigger/memory, we don't have access to our executive part of the brain so rational thought if cut off. The pre-frontal cortex is less accessible as the amygdala goes into overdrive - the little culprit of much of our troubles

[woodsgnome]

These sorts of things happen too with me, which only reinforce the feeling I've always had that I'm in sort of a bubble -- or iceberg -- and can barely communicate with the hazy-looking people outside.

If I try to communicate. I end up insecure and often dissociated. An inner panic/fear (mild on the outside, terrifying inside) takes over, and I can seem lost -- if indeed I can feel anything. This is another one of those 'I know why' I do this (cptsd) behaviours but can't get to the result I actually want and crave -- friendship and sharing.

So often all I'm left with is more disappointment, and then it's easy to turn my bad vibes on myself. Often my only solution is to not even try anymore (social isolation is at least easy for me in that regard).

Just my experience, as it has always bothered that I can't quite make the gap. The oddest part is that I actually was at one time a very good improv actor, which requires quick back-and-forth conversation, but that success never translated once I transitioned back to 'real life'.   

[Phoebes]

Yes, and these popular messages and "gurus" are like nails on the chalkboard.

I can intellectually understand a lot of things after healing a lot and coming a long way. I know I'm as worthy as anyone. But, feelings-wise, I am still hypervigillant. I can feel someone recoil internally the moment it happens. And I feel helpless.

I do believe it's because of the way I was conditioned. I didn't count in our house. And I still don't matter to the estranged parentals. Not only eas it neglect, but I do remember often the way Nm aggressively telling me people don't like me or want me around, or don't care what I have to say. I was a wreck because of this through my formative years. I have to "tell myself" I'm ok, and I'm sure people sense my insecurity. I guess it's human nature to shun the already hurting, and embrace the secure and already loved.

[Gromit]

I'm so sorry to hear this Phoebes... I'm having that mindset too with all this quarantine stuff especially...

I always wonder what it is about non-CPTSD people that makes them feel like they can just "be"? To do whatever they want and what others think doesn't effect them? I envy it. wish I had that. They could stretch out their legs in a cramped van and take up so much room... And people would still be drawn to be social with them... They open up their vulnerabilities and somehow it's charismatic and not repelling. Why not for someone like me?

Even now, but most of my life too, being open and vulnerable either brought on attack or pushed people away. In some weird way I agree with you, I think it doesn't apply to us, and I'm starting to feel it's because I was "trained" by FOO to be invisible and  still enact that behavior every day, and people pick up on that: that I'm meant to be invisible. Even if I'm vulnerable it should be ignored, asking for attention is always out of character, or it's too much coming from a person like myself.

I don't know what to tell you. I'm in the same pain ... Big hugs to you, is all, and you're not alone 

That's just so perfect I need to quote the whole lot.

[owl25]

"I guess it's human nature to shun the already hurting, and embrace the secure and already loved."

That is exactly it. I think it is because most (?) people have their own buried hurts. They don't want us to remind them.

[dreamriver]

That's just so perfect I need to quote the whole lot.

Thank you Gromit I'm glad that resonated with you 

Owl25 I agree, I'm experiencing the exact same thing with FOO right now. Telling them about my pain has only pushed them further away

It's a gift to have this forum though and have all these people gather together and know the pain, and simply put the empathy out there. It's amazing.

And Phoebe's - I've learned to avoid guru types... their advice comes from a place of attention-seeking that is all too close in spirit to the people who have harmed us, just my opinion. Unless they've walked through the storm themselves (like Walker) I'm skeptical; how can you speak to the pain when you haven't experienced it, or you somehow have the ability to escape it or shield against it (through an ego-building career like being a "guru"?) Some of us are too injured for that luxury... Forgive me if I'm overstepping saying this I'm just extremely cynical I guess....

At the end of the day it's all emotions to work through.... As logical and helpful the advice of gurus and psychologists can be the pain doesn't go away (I learned this over the past couple years). maybe all we need is the comfort of someone who "gets it" to hold our hand until the storm is over....

At least the pain helps us to be more empathetic....  One things for sure is that I embrace you and do not shun you for hurting, Phoebes. 

[dreamriver]

Also, I just had a thought, in reply to woodsgnome and holidayay: one strange thing I've experienced that I wish I could "tap into" for better confidence, is getting feedback that I seem very "unruffled" or even stern, if not icy/cut off at times when I know I'm having an EF (or the beginnings of one) around people (esp. those I'm not familiar with/do not trust, and before I head off to isolate myself...though this is not always the case, I know I'm not always so poised...and I'm on fire/absolutely freaking out inside!)

I can't help but wonder if it's not just sensing neediness, but sensing strength, weirdly? Or they sense us "disassociating" and cutting off emotions and they are just responding by disengaging, too, and just mirroring the behavior. Maybe I don't see myself clearly like you said, holidayay. I've learned to hide the turmoil like an expert but don't realize what I look like on the surface, and I know being aloof and distant to hide panic attacks has been one of my go-to survival mechanisms

I can often feel a push and pull like you so aptly describe too, woodsgnome; but what's certain is putting words to and opening up about what I'm feeling is terrifying (even with someone I'm close to like my DH). In other (more brief) words, maybe we're just not open books like other people are.

[owl25]

"maybe all we need is the comfort of someone who "gets it" to hold our hand until the storm is over.... "

This is how I feel,  I just want someone to be there. I only just joined and it's almost a shock to the system that I have found a place where everyone really understands. How can I feel this safe and like I'm home after only a few days? I haven't even really gotten to know anyone here yet.

Sorry, don't mean to take over this thread. Everything is just resonating so much.

[woodsgnome]

I had an experience just this evening along the lines of this discussion, and I'm still settling down from it. This usually affects my ability to communicate further -- the inner rage always seems to boil up and stop me. But let's see ...

I have only 1 person I feel confident enough to call and even try to share much of substance with. Well, I did just that tonight, and bam -- the response was off-putting and patronizing, to say the least. I wanted to bring up something of importance to me, tried and was pretty well flipped off with an uncomfortable attitude implying 'don't bother me'.

This is how it seems so often -- I'm tolerated as I seem to have a somewhat appealing personality  . But then I also seem easy to slough off as some needy nuisance.

I better stop before I over-think this, which is also typical of my constant hypervigilance and easily hurt persona. Or something ... never understood this, like so much else not easy to grasp without difficulty and/or just blowing apart.

[dreamriver]

Owl25:  welcome!

Woodsgnome: I'm sorry. I'm glad you still have the confidence to call someone close to you at least, but that sucks when they're huffy. I'm phone-phobic for some CPTSD reasons dating back to childhood, so even the thought of rejection over the phone sounds excruciating... I only feel safe reaching out like that through text and even then only with one friend at this point (can't do it with FOO anymore).

.. and even then if they're not responsive/addressing my needs, I have to cycle through the reasons why it might be more a "them" problem than a "me" problem to calm myself: maybe they had a bad day, they're going through something, it's not a good time, they forgot, I didn't communicate clearly my needs, I read them completely wrong... But even if any of that is true I hate the way it still makes me feel - the hypervigilance and hyperanalyzing overdrive I get into....