Do I belong here?

[Cottonanx]

Hi, I was referred here from OOTF, but I don't know if I belong here or not. I was the only child of older parents with health problems--dad's started before I was born, both parents went into decline when I was around 7-8 and got worse from there. My parents demanded perfect conduct from me. They weren't mean if I accidentally spilled or broke something, but I was expected to be 100% polite, obedient, never rocking the boat, no character flaws. Then as I got older and their health problems got worse, I had to take care of them. I had nearly all of the adult responsibility (cooking, laundry, grocery shopping, transportation, occasionally even bill-paying) but they still expected 100% obedience. I was bullied a lot (a LOT) in school, too. I left home at 18 for college and my parents actually got WORSE over the next few years, picking on me for every little thing, discouraging me from working but then criticizing me for not working, etc.

I was raped when I was 20 and I have "regular" PTSD from that, but I've been treated, and it's gotten better. So I know what PTSD is. It's just that lately I'm beginning to feel the same way about my entire life before I left for college. I think about  what it felt like to have to keep track of so much when I was so little, and my body starts to hurt and I can barely get out of bed. I'm happily married now, have two children and the older one is around the age I was when the bricks started falling out of the sky, plus my mother is also freaking out lately about things that may or may not have happened to HER at around that age. (Dad died a few years ago.)

Here are my reasons for not being sure I belong here:

1. My parents were not physically abusive.
2. I love my parents very much.
3. Everyone else who knows my parents also loves them very much.
4. It wasn't my parents' fault they were sick.

[schrödinger's cat]

Ooof... I wish I knew what to say. No, sorry, I do know one thing to say. Welcome!    

I've recently started listening to the audio version of a book called The Narcissistic Family. It's about trauma that's caused by living in a "narcissistic family system". That's a family where the children are there to fulfill the needs of the parents. From what you're saying, that could apply to you? I'm not telling you to read the book, I'm just saying that this is a known cause for trauma: even if neither of your parents is a narc, even if they never hit you, even if you love them very much, even if it wasn't their fault... if you were there to fulfill their needs, then there's a high chance that this was traumatizing in and of itself.

(If you do want to read the book: it's written for therapists by therapists, so it's definitely not a self-help book, but it's got a good and detailed description of what living in a narcissistic family system does to you.)

My parents weren't physically abusive either. But emotional abuse damages people, too. You don't have to be physically abused to get CTPSD.

I love my parents very much, too. They simply passed on to me what their own parents passed on to them. My father was very, very ill, and my mother took care of him, and there wasn't much energy left for me. They couldn't help it. But even so, I've got CPTSD. A part of it is from watching my father take about two decades to die. A part is from emotional neglect. A part is from emotional abuse. A part is from health issues I myself had. Things add up.

Things added up for you, too, it seems. Your parents controlled your behaviour to a nicety... you were bullied a lot at school... you were parentalized and had to take care of your parents' needs while still conforming to their idea of a good, obedient child... It must have been so wearying. I'm sorry that you had to go through all this. I hope you'll find something here that helps. This forum has been immensely helpful for me. It's full of very kind people. It's one of those rare places where you can just say what things are like for you, and there's bound to be someone on here who's going through the exact same thing or has gone through it in the past. Amazingly freeing, that.

[Cottonanx]

Thank you for the warm welcome, both of you. 

I've been thinking a lot about my mother, because she is still alive and she has been freaking out lately and her high level of crazy is seriously messing with my head. It's easy to think my father was the "good" one because I miss him now that he's gone, and I loved him when he was here, and he did sometimes shield me from my mother's insanity, especially when I was little. But I also think my dad had ego issues with how he was perceived. Like, he wanted everyone to think he was smart. He WAS smart, so there's no reason anyone wouldn't think that, but he sometimes made a fool of himself pushing the point. ALSO, he wanted everyone to think he was self-sufficient even though he was disabled. This was NOT true. My mother and I covered for him and made him look healthier than he really was, all the way through the last third of his life or so. So in that sense, I was there to fulfill BOTH parents' needs. And yes, I do believe it was traumatizing.  It's hard to have a support system because nearly everyone in my real life knows my parents and thinks they're amazing and wonderful; many people even think I had a nearly perfect childhood.

But yeah. I have this vivid memory of getting yelled at by an older student for coming in late to a school practice, and stepping out of myself with the realization that even if I tried to explain that it had taken me twenty minutes just to get my parents into the car, no one would believe me. It was like that--all the time. Are we going to run out of food, how am I going to get to school if it's storming outside, I just outgrew my entire wardrobe except for one outfit and the kids are making fun of me for wearing that one outfit every day, I am literally going to have to cut class and take an unexcused absence to take dad to the doctor because the vice principal is not going to believe that we don't have a phone, I had to miss school yesterday because one parent was in the hospital and the other was out of town and now I can't go back because neither of them is here to sign me in.... 

Of course, it was all in the past, and everything is fine now--except I barely have the energy to function each day.

[schrödinger's cat]

What a lot of pressure.    Pressure from all sides, too - be the perfect nursemaid while also being the perfectly obedient daughter while also pretending to have the normal parental support system while also secretly doing everything for yourself while also helping your parents pretend they weren't nearly as dependent on you as they were... Yeeees, I can see how this might have sapped your energy.    You gave up quite a lot to help them save face, it seems.

[Cottonanx]

What a lot of pressure.    Pressure from all sides, too - be the perfect nursemaid while also being the perfectly obedient daughter while also pretending to have the normal parental support system while also secretly doing everything for yourself while also helping your parents pretend they weren't nearly as dependent on you as they were... Yeeees, I can see how this might have sapped your energy.    You gave up quite a lot to help them save face, it seems.

YES. THIS. I may print out your post and thumbtack it to my wall, Schrodinger's Cat! This is exactly it.

I could (should?) have asked for help from church and extended family, but I felt I would have to pay them back somehow, and I was already so overwhelmed that I couldn't do it. Besides, my job was making my parents look good, and asking for help would have made them look bad.

[schrödinger's cat]

Thanks for saying that, Cottonanx.

I could (should?) have asked for help from church and extended family, but I felt I would have to pay them back somehow, and I was already so overwhelmed that I couldn't do it. Besides, my job was making my parents look good, and asking for help would have made them look bad.

And from what you said, I'm not exactly getting the impression that you were ever in a role where you could ask for help and it was this natural, easy thing. You seem to have been the designated the helper, not the helpee. I mean, you were just a kid back then, younger than eighteen - and yet when you thought about having a grown-up help you, your first thought was: "ugh, I'll have to repay them". Isn't that how grown-ups interact among each other? So it sounds like you were simply THAT parentalized... or like your parents minimized and trivialized your workload and your deprivations THAT much... or maybe both.

[Cottonanx]

Yes. My mother is crazy and my father was too in denial about his disability to make up for that. They loved me, but they were just not in any position to raise a child. Then again, if I'd been taken away from them, that would have been traumatic too, and the two family members who'd have been most likely to take me were even less capable than they were! 

BeHea1thy, I'm only just now realizing that I can have pursuits of my own. Is there a life where I'm NOT having to dodge sky bricks?

In real life, I'm married, I have two children and several pets, I'm a homeowner with a yard to maintain, etc. I have a good job, but I'm new to the professional world; I married young (largely to get away from my parents) and was dependent on my husband until a few years ago (I just worked part-time when the kids were babies).

I'm currently on this amazing fantasy in my mind where I rent a one-bedroom apartment near my office, furnish it with the bare basic essentials--all purchased new from Wal-Mart, because I'm not responsible for the way Wal-Mart treats its workers or the economy or the environment--and I get to decide exactly what to buy and own and keep and subscribe to and avoid. I can live on homemade chicken-noodle-vegetable soup and fresh fruit mixed with plain yogurt, without worrying that these foods are boring or not spicy enough or too expensive or won't keep; without worrying about whether the current food guru has decided this or that ingredient is "toxic" even though it has never caused problems for me. I can buy the cheapest food that still tastes good and is nourishing, because I don't have to take responsibility for how the animals were treated nor how the farmers used the land. I can answer phone calls and letters, or not. I can spend time with other people, or not. I can volunteer my time or just write a check or not contribute at all--my choice. I can keep the apartment scrupulously clean, with no clutter whatsoever, and throw out anything anyone gives me that I'm not going to use. I can do whatever I want with my paid time off from work.

I'm not saying I want to LIVE this fantasy. For one thing, I love my husband, children, pets, and house. For another thing, I would not have gotten as far as I have in life without my husband's and, yes, my parents' help.

But I have to say the thought of not being responsible for anyone but myself takes my breath away. It's intoxicating to think about putting myself first. I don't think I have ever done this, despite my mother constantly telling me I never think of anyone but myself. I would never commit a crime or hurt anyone, of course. Just being able to live without feeling guilty and overwhelmed all the time about everything would be amazing!

[Kizzie]

Hi and and welcome Cottonanx      Boy the phrase "having to dodge sky bricks" really sums things up doesn't it?!   We really did have to do that as children and if we're still in touch with our FOO, as adults.  People with PDs demand a lot of attention and train us to respond. There's a great thread you might want to check out about our becoming other-referencing (focused outwardly on the needs and wants of others), and forgetting how to be self-referencing (what do we want, need, think, feel .....?) in CPTSD, and losing our selves along the way.  (See - http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=1009.msg8237#msg8237)

Your fantasy sounds more like reality, you telling yourself what you need and want and deserve to have - some you time, putting yourself first instead of last to balance your life.  FWIW I say go for it! Maybe not so far as renting an apartment lol, but in carving out personal space in your life as BeHealthy suggests.   

[Rrecovery]

Hi Cottonanx and Welcome    My heart goes out to you and the young girl you were with all of that overwhelming pressure and responsibility.  I enjoyed reading your fantasy of life on your own; it's good when we can know what's in our hearts.  I believe it's possible, in time, to live that way even with others; learning to set boundaries without guilt.  I'm glad you found this safe, nurturing place.  It's a place of mutual giving and receiving.  You belong here 

[Cottonanx]

I printed out this whole post with all the replies, and reading it really does make me feel better. Thank you everyone. 

[Indigochild]

Hi Cottonanx

I agree with everyone on here. You should be here and i hope you find it helpful.
I would just like to say that, (going on your reasons for not being here):
My parents were not physically abusive. - they don't have to have been!!
2. I love my parents very much. - Most people do love their parents, despite what they did to them (or didnt do to them in the case of neglect)
3. Everyone else who knows my parents also loves them very much. - I'm sure they do. People don't know the reality of what is happening for you at home.
4. It wasn't my parents' fault they were sick. - weather it was your parents fault or not, weather they were sick or not, they still hurt you, therefore it is called abuse / neglect- whatever it may be.

You should look up emotional neglect- is different to physical neglect which is more widely known =not feeding a child etc. but emotional neglect is emotional abandonment.
Don't know if youve read or heard of the book: Running on Empty by Jonice Webb (its about emotional neglect)
Also, a lot of people feel love for their parents- for a start its biological, and a lot are in denial about what their parents did, and or, they just don't feel anger, sadness, hate, just yet.   It takes a wile for those emotions to come sometimes.
As for everyone else loving your parents- maybe this is making you doubt that what happened to you growing up actually happened. This is normal to doubt yourself. I found that the one time i spoke of what happened to me, and someone validated it and told me it was abuse, I was in utter shock and disbelief, still am...but it helped me to see my memories more clearly, they were shocking to speak aloud. When somethings in your head for so long, its normal for you, until you speak of it.

Hope this helps

[Boatsetsailrose]

Hi there yes it was my experience too the 'it's not about you , it's about us' focus-
And the constant expectation of having to be 'perfect and controlled -

It's taken a lot of work to get out of that programming but I can see am making progress now -
I work with -
Not being perfect
It is about me
I come first ( not in a completely selfish way but in a healthy balanced way
I am not responsible for anyone but myself - doesn't mean I don't care for others and I don't have children - I guess here it's about ratio and balance -
Co dependence is a place I work to be healthier in
I am worthy
I am loveable
Life is not to be lived in fear
I can live spontaneously and creatively
I can live from a spiritual place and let go of control
Perfectionism has no place in my world

[Dutch Uncle]

I'm at a loss for words.

Almost.

Welcome, Cottonanx! 

[farfromthetree]

Thank you for the warm welcome, both of you. 

I've been thinking a lot about my mother, because she is still alive and she has been freaking out lately and her high level of crazy is seriously messing with my head. It's easy to think my father was the "good" one because I miss him now that he's gone, and I loved him when he was here, and he did sometimes shield me from my mother's insanity, especially when I was little. But I also think my dad had ego issues with how he was perceived. Like, he wanted everyone to think he was smart. He WAS smart, so there's no reason anyone wouldn't think that, but he sometimes made a fool of himself pushing the point. ALSO, he wanted everyone to think he was self-sufficient even though he was disabled. This was NOT true. My mother and I covered for him and made him look healthier than he really was, all the way through the last third of his life or so. So in that sense, I was there to fulfill BOTH parents' needs. And yes, I do believe it was traumatizing.  It's hard to have a support system because nearly everyone in my real life knows my parents and thinks they're amazing and wonderful; many people even think I had a nearly perfect childhood.

But yeah. I have this vivid memory of getting yelled at by an older student for coming in late to a school practice, and stepping out of myself with the realization that even if I tried to explain that it had taken me twenty minutes just to get my parents into the car, no one would believe me. It was like that--all the time. Are we going to run out of food, how am I going to get to school if it's storming outside, I just outgrew my entire wardrobe except for one outfit and the kids are making fun of me for wearing that one outfit every day, I am literally going to have to cut class and take an unexcused absence to take dad to the doctor because the vice principal is not going to believe that we don't have a phone, I had to miss school yesterday because one parent was in the hospital and the other was out of town and now I can't go back because neither of them is here to sign me in.... 

Of course, it was all in the past, and everything is fine now--except I barely have the energy to function each day.

And you're asking if you belong here? Um...yeah. (Hi I know you from the other board). You get hugs today!

[Cottonanx]

And you're asking if you belong here? Um...yeah. (Hi I know you from the other board). You get hugs today!

Thanks, farfromthetree.