Is there real treatment?

[owl25]

I'm struggling with this again today.

What does treatment need to look like for CPTSD?
What has been shown to be truly effective? Has anything been shown to be effective?
Has anyone really recovered from this?
Are therapists just taking their best guess when they try to help us?
What to do when the resources don't seem to be available?
How do I even know what the resources need to be?
Does the expertise even exist?

Or is all of this just a big merry go round?

[Jazzy]

I have read posts here of people who have come back to say they are recovered, so I believe it is possible.

Everybody is different though, there is no easy answer. To be honest, I think things are pretty lacking (more or less so depending where in the world you are), but they are improving. A big part of why I keep saying don't give up, is because there are new studies, medication, therapy programs etc. etc. becoming available as time goes on.

Personally, I don't expect any one else is going to be much help to me. Therapy has done more bad than good for me. The most helpful thing for me has been posting here, and interacting with the others who share similar problems. There are some resources posted here, and more get added from time to time. There are sometimes free/cheap online events that get posted as well. If you're looking for resources that are more local, your doctor should be able to help with that. Ask him/her directly if you can.

I think its more a roller-coaster. Lots of ups and downs and loops and circles... but there are straight parts too.

[Kizzie]

It (treatment) is a work in progress mainly because Complex PTSD is a new diagnosis. If you can slog your way through this article --https://sci-hub.tw/10.1002/da.22493 -- the author is saying just this;  new diagnosis, research needed, treatment recommendations/protocols are a work in progress as data become available.

That said, one of the best resources I've come across re treatment is a set of guidelines produced by Blue Knot Foundation in Australia - https://www.blueknot.org.au/Portals/2/Practice%20Guidelines/BlueKnot_Practice_Guidelines_2019.pdf.

[Bermuda]

I quite agree with the previous comments. In my case, as well as many others, I think the trauma is such an integral part of our past that so many of our personality quirks and how we've come to know ourselves is based on it. Like non-affected people, it's through our experiences with others, that we form our sense of self. Because of this, a positive outcome to me seems that it is not simply forgetting and moving forward, or even seeing things in a positive light. It's learning that it's alright to feel and be affected, and to gain a better understanding of our own reactions, not to intentionally modify them. Our experiences will always be traumatic, but they won't always grip us.

This is just from my own personal experience in therapy of course. There is hope, but it takes time.

[woodsgnome]

As has been said, there doesn't seem to be a one-size fits all bonafide treatment guaranteed to suit everyone's needs.

That matches my own experience, even following years of therapy and poking around loads of written materials, videos, anything that looked at all promising.

The good news -- some of it helps. The bad news -- it's not always obvious right away and especially not predictable as to how it might pan out.

What has 'worked' better for me is to resist the idea of giving up. That may sound bold, but it's really not; it's more along the lines of 'it can't get any worse'.

Out of all that disappointment I have found one perspective that helped. That is to be open and okay with being surprised. Some things I never suspected were anywhere close to helping me provided at least some relief. This brings up the next trick -- avoiding rushing things when it feels close. It may or not be, but again I've been surprised at some of the twists this road has taken.

No, I'm probably far from being cured but I've stepped back and at least accepted that en route I've at least partially healed some parts at least a little. And that's the only starting point I know of -- backed by patience. Loads of patience; albeit anger and frustration tend to always ride along. I've remembered enough surprises by now to at least give up always 'knowing' exactly what's happening, but it still seems worth plodding along.

I hope this isn't a downer, or that I've made it seem promising but distant. Maybe, maybe not -- again, I've had enough surprises turn out okay to want to give up now. And I hope you can stay with it, too. 

[sigiriuk]

Dear Owl25
These are important, valid questions that you ask.
Is it a merry-go-round? At times, it feels like that.
If you are asking these type of questions, it means your mind & body is ready to seek out answers. You are asking thoughtful ones too....so as to protect yourself.
Sounds like the healing process has already begun.
Slim

[saylor]

Has anyone really recovered from this?

Hi owl,
I have the same question, because I sometimes worry I might be a lost cause. But, luckily, there's a part of me that refuses to believe that, so I keep looking and exploring different approaches

FWIW, as an anecdote:
I've listened to some different podcasts about healing from CPTSD, whose stated goal is to help the listener get better, based on the assertion that the host knows how to do it (some of them will say outright, "I've cured my CPTSD"). But in most (maybe all?) of the pods I've listened to, I've noticed that there will be times when the host indicates that they've been going through some kind of rough patch: getting triggered, experiencing EFs, etc., and I'll be thinking, "But didn't they say that they're cured, and isn't that the point of the podcast?" I realize that things aren't going to be so cut-and-dried (and I'm not trying to criticize the hosts at all), but it does make me wonder how solidly and lastingly one can really expect to get better when even these self-proclaimed success stories (some of whom are trained MH professionals, who are offering counseling sessions) are apparently still suffering, at least to some degree. Although, to be fair, maybe they've at least managed to improve their situation, and that's obviously better than nothing. It has made me skeptical, though, especially given that I wonder how much I myself have really improved thus far. Sometimes I think I've made some headway, but all that sense of progress can get suddenly crushed by yet another heavy-duty EF 

Furthermore, my understanding is that the following factors can all make CPTSD harder to treat:

1) traumatic events occurred at a young age
2) " happened over an extended period
3) there was no perceived, viable means of escape or self-defense
4) trauma was inflicted by a caretaker (victim was dependent on abuser)
5) the recipient of the abuse tended to dissociate
6) delay in getting treatment

While I can feel discouraged by the above (since they all apply in my case), I can't see a point to giving up. I don't want to be like this for the rest of my life if I can possibly help it. Even a small, lasting improvement would be welcomed by me!

[Lady Knight]

I'm experiencing the same Saylor and Owl25 I'm struggling with this too.I'm holding on to hope and I do know it can get better.

[Kizzie]

Here's a link to the bibliography for articles/books relating to research into assessment and treatment. Thought it might be reassuring to see how much research is being done into evidence based treatments - https://www.outofthestorm.website/bibliography-assessment-treatment.

[sanmagic7]

hey, owl,

many years ago, not long after i joined this forum, i'd had a history of harmful therapists who had never even seen that i'd been traumatized, let alone damaged in relationships.  this forum was a lifesaver for me, and the people here kept me afloat during some very difficult times.  what came to my mind about healing from all these traumas was that my goal was to get this c-ptsd beast down to the size of a mischievous puppy.  it would still cause problems at times, but i'd be able to deal with them in a more efficient way because of what i'd learned and practiced.

i've since heard of people who have said they no longer fit the criteria of c-ptsd because of the work they did and the healing they experienced. 

i don't know if that's possible for me because i'm quite a bit older now, but i have found a therapist who has worked with me using emdr (i know it's not for everyone) and basically allows me to follow what feels best for me.  i treasure her for that.  others have had a lot of progress using other methods.  i do believe there is help for us out there.

i don't know if the roller coaster effect will ever completely go away, at least for me, but i do believe that as i continue to heal, the ups and downs will become less severe, and i'll be able to recover much more easily thru the progress i've made and the practice i've experienced.  for this reason, i do not believe this is nothing but a merry-go-round and we'll stay on the same horse traveling nowhere forever.

i encourage you to keep at it.  we'll be here to help and support you as best we can.  you're not alone - we're doing this right beside you.  sending a hug filled with love, care, and support.

[Whobuddy]

I agree with all the answers in this thread but I would like to add some of my own thoughts and experiences from my recovery journey.

The treatment for cptsd is very individual because we all went through differing traumas at differing developmental stages resulting in varying damages and deficits.

You ask if anyone recovered from this? I had a therapist that said yes, definitely, one can live as if they had experienced a life in a safe, supportive, and nurturing family. Personally, I think that one will always have some degree of symptoms but they can become very minimal.

That therapist had superb, impeccable credentials. However, he went to the extreme when using the term 'client-based' therapy. He was looking to me for cues as to how to do the therapy and I was looking to him to lead it. So we came to a stalemate and after a few years I finally got brave enough to stop seeing him even though he kept insisting that he was helping me and I was making great progress.

You ask: Are therapists just taking their best guess when they try to help us? More of a yes than a no here. They will try different things and check how you are doing with them. They need a ton of input from you in order to be effective. Giving input to therapists is very, very hard for most of us with cptsd so it is essential that you find one that you are incredibly comfortable with and this may not happen quickly. You need get to a point where you feel free to speak up when things aren't going well for you. The most important things are Voice and Choice. That is what we didn't have growing up and what we need to learn as adults.

Here is my most recent hypothesis about my recovery:
Step one: Deal with how I was trained to think about myself. This means issues like:  inner critic, right to be alive, right to have choices, deserving good things, using my voice, it's okay to make mistakes and take risks, self-trust. I recently learned a word that sums it up: Self-honoring.
Step two: Deal with how I was trained to think about people: This means issues like: they are not all dangerous, I can ask them questions, their questions are not attacks on me,  I can have relationships with those that I choose to and can leave those I don't want to be around.
Step three: Deal with how I was trained to think about the world: Issues like culture, religion, politics, environment, etc. 

I hope you find my answers helpful or at least a little bit interesting. I wish you the best on your recovery journey!

[saylor]

.
Here is my most recent hypothesis about my recovery:
Step one: Deal with how I was trained to think about myself. This means issues like:  inner critic, right to be alive, right to have choices, deserving good things, using my voice, it's okay to make mistakes and take risks, self-trust. I recently learned a word that sums it up: Self-honoring.
Step two: Deal with how I was trained to think about people: This means issues like: they are not all dangerous, I can ask them questions, their questions are not attacks on me,  I can have relationships with those that I choose to and can leave those I don't want to be around.
Step three: Deal with how I was trained to think about the world: Issues like culture, religion, politics, environment, etc.

I find that hierarchy to be a useful framing (thank you).

I could see Step 2 also including something like: people's treatment of me isn't necessarily all about me (e.g., an indictment of my character)—it may be a reflection of their own "baggage" that they're projecting/transferring onto to me, so I don't always have to internalize it or take it personally (this is a big issue for me that I continue to need to remind myself and work on)

[woodsgnome]

Having run through several therapists on this perilous journey, I've come to think of therapy, and therapists, as a mixed bag holding endless possibilities (including potential harmful or even dead end outcomes).

My current T is the best I've had, and it starts with this basic premise -- yes, she has expertise, but so do I (which she allows, and even encourages). She doesn't 'do' therapy to me, rather she interacts with my situation to help me find my own inner path.

There are times I don't want this -- I'd rather have quick answers -- like right now! -- and be done with it. She's probably been tempted to go along with that, but wisely resists it -- helps me along, possibly suggesting some options, but never tries to force her way or opinion on me as some sort of obvious successful solution that I'm missing out on.
She'd rather point out an option or two, but not force the issue.

Again, it's my therapy and it's crucial I find my own optimal way towards healing. It's called therapy, after all -- not judgement. While backed by her validation, expertise and help, it still boils down to how I feel my own fragile needs are being served.

Lucky me, perhaps. But as she herself points out, lots of people don't like a T who doesn't fall for the quick fix (not to mention insurance and government agencies, which want everything to go quick and done).

So I guess I'm suggesting that therapy is more art form than rigid scientific practice. While certain approaches have shown great promise, not all result successfully for everyone in the same manner.

It can take a lot of savvy to pull it all together (and not have it fall apart yet again)  . which is why I tend to regard therapy as being more of an art form than as a strict science. The latter becomes a part of the art, and not the other way around.

Not that any of us, in the end, are experts with all the answers. But at least some of them can patch a few of the deep ruts on this rocky road. I, for one, have wanted so often just to give up. Not yet. 

[Whobuddy]

Thank you for your words, Saylor. Yes, there is so much to figure out. To identify the things we need to 'unlearn', then unlearn them, then replace them with healthier more accurate information. It is a lot of work and takes a lot of time.

What you wrote is so important for those of us who were led to believe that everything is our fault. All people come with their own baggage. We don't need to take what they say and do personally. But that is much easier said than done.

Woodsgnome, you describe therapy so very well. At first, it was hard for me to accept that it was 'my therapy' and I was in charge. My tendency was to see the T as another authority figure that would tell me what to do. Fortunately, my T's didn't go along with that tendency and eventually I was able to grasp the concept.

I do hope these responses are helpful for you, Owl25. 

[owl25]

I haven't been able to come back to this thread, as I've been trying to deal with my feelings around all of this. There is lots of good feedback and I'll be revisiting this thread a lot, I think. It's hard dealing with the disillusionment of what has basically happened to me in my life and then the difficulty in getting help to overcome it - that what I am dealing with is this thing called CPTSD that still is being researched, that most mental health practitioners don't know anything about it, and that they don't know they don't know. That the solutions aren't simple and straightforward. That despite my best efforts for over a decade I am still fighting this, and that more things happened along the way to compound it.

I'm not going to give up trying to heal, but it's all been a really bitter pill for me to swallow. I have to grieve the loss of what my life could have been without this, and what it could have been if I had been able to work things out sooner.

On the brighter side - I found this community. The support and resources all in one place are phenomenal. I'm not giving up hope. I know healing is possible. It's just trying to find what works for me that is the tricky part. I'm not giving up. I'm not going to let this CPTSD win.