dollyvee's recovery journal

[natureluvr]

Dollyvee I've also experienced similar things to what you talked about in the last 2 posts.  I was also the scapegoat of a high level narc mom. I do believe that many to most people out there are dysfunctional, and that in general, our society is becoming more dysfunctional.  Those of us in recovery are on a different path than most folks, in my opinion.  I think we see things others don't, because we have so much awareness. 

[dollyvee]

Thank you both 

I've had some things come up this week, more so in the body than the mind. My shoulder pain mysteriously resufaced the other day. I don't think I injured it in any form like last time. I was also just feeling very off and overwhelmed. I had to send the form off for the Ministry of Child Services FOI and maybe that's what did it? Anyways, the day the shoulder acted up, I also ended up seeing the romantic interest from the gym and there was a lot of sadness around that. I woke up in the middle of the night thinking, I can let this go, I am letting this go, and had a pain so sharp  it felt like I had been stung by a bee. I looked up this point in the morning and it is one of the thirteen ghost points in Chinese medicine that has to do with ancestral inheritence. How funny since that's what I've been writing about lately. I believe it also has to do with restoring consciuosness (coming out of dissociation?) and independence/letting go (but need to find the reference for this). I think the latter is more to do with clouded shen (heart energy) which is what a build up of phelgm (gui which means ghost/spirit) does. How funny that I have also had congestion in my nose and battling viruses for the past six months as well as not being able to detox (letting go) of mycotoxins. Anyways, I found an interesting book called Treating Emotional Trauma with Chinese Medicine and am trying to make sense of all this. He is a big proponent of EFT in the book and maybe that's something I need to revisit.

I'm journalling this morning and what's coming up is that it feels like deep down, I never wanted a happy, separate, independent life for myself where I'm living my own life and feel good about it. At least it feels "muddy" when I think about that. I think I do want those things, it just somehow gets "muddy." I don't know how to describe it to the t's that I feel like stuff coming up doesn't belong to me. There's deep feelings around attachment I think with romantic interests, but also like I can separate and this stuff just "shows up." I don't know what to say about those emotions except they feel extreme and hard to let go of; that attachment around this feels extreme and hard to let go of. It also reminds me that my gm had a hard time letting go of my gf and of me too. Maybe that's why I feel like this stuff is not entirely mine?

[dollyvee]

Reading more in the Chinese Medicine book, it talks about the Governing Vessel as "fathering the body."

"The Du vessel represents the masculine archetype and the fathering of the body. Fathers instill strength and confidence in children and show them how to interact with their environment (Farrell 2016, p.89). With each success, the person grows in confidence to attempt more activities on their own. They eventually break free from needing mothering, able to nurture themselves (Farrell 2016, p.90). Stimulating points on the Du vessel encourages the ability to stand tall and walk upright into new experiences"

This is independence. When I told t about what had been coming up (the pain in the GV26 point), the relation to independence, and how my gm was never able to make herself independent from my gf, she said that my gm also didn't want me to be independent of her. She wanted to perpetually "s/mother" me so I wouldn't leave her. Now as a middle aged adult, I feel stuck and frozen when I think about having my own life. I am doing these things, but somehow feel detached from them I think, or that they're not for me.

I am on holiday (it's for me and I'm trying to feel more connected to it, but in the back of my mind, I think I'm extravagant for staying where I'm staying, and need to be mindful that the people I work for might not want to employ me if I'm spending my money like this. I don't know where this is coming from) and had something happen.

TW

I had a very bad experience a few days ago. I saw some parents with their young child who wouldn't be quiet. Instead of comforting the child, the father would pick it up and shake it. The baby could walk, but not talk. The mother didn't do anything to hide it, and when no one was looking she said very scarily, and quietly to be quiet. I was sitting nearby and saw it all. I think she realized I was watching and tried to manipulate, undermine me. I don't know how to explain it? Passive aggressively pretend that something wasn't going on? That she was going to be mean to me because I could see it? It all felt too familiar. I mentioned it to one of the staff and they said someone on staff had seen it as well and they were going to report it. The mother mother changed her tune after that and was cooing the child. I was livid inside, but also felt like someone like that could get to me? That other people had noticed my anger and I felt like I was the problem? I also noticed I was trying to get another woman's attention like can you see this? Maybe I just felt helpless again because it seemed like no one was going to do anything. Even the "supervisor" I told it to didn't seem to grasp it and was apologising to me. I guess I just felt like nothing was really going to be done and that poor child will have to live through that. It's the same as with that creepy guy in the grocery store watching that young girl a while ago. I wish I could just live my checked out life and not see this stuff, but here I am. I don't know why I continue to feel powerless against people who are so clearly in the wrong.

[Chart]

Because we ARE powerless. That is such a horror. To be able to see these things, really and truly see them. See the Truth, the truth of something so horrible, and something we know so intimately. I "see" that kind of stuff too. Sometimes I doubt, but mostly I feel I see what's really there. One time while driving I saw a car on the side of the road and a man "roughing up" a woman in the grass behind their car. Without thinking I pulled over, got out and walked back to them. I started to speak(in French), without mincing words but suggesting they calm down... they stared at me like blank-faced (but nonetheless ashamed) cows... I realized they didn't understand me. I asked, Do you speak English? The man responded in an arrogant and annoyed tone, We ARE English. I nearly laughed. An English couple gets into a heated fight while on holiday in France and who should intervene in their private affair? A Yank! Talk about bad luck! I looked the woman in the eyes and asked if she was okay? She said yes. I said I knew what they were going through (which was true). I then said, We have to find a better way. I asked the woman again if she was sure. She nodded. They were deeply ashamed. I said I couldn't just pass what I'd seen, I had to try and do something.
I then wished them well and went back to my car and drove off.
I guess that time I did something. But it's an exception. Most of the time, there's nothing you can do.
Sadly, tragically...

[dollyvee]

Thank you Chart, it is hard to see this stuff, and the more difficult part is that in my experience people look at you as the problem when you bring it up and talk about it.

As luck would have it (maybe it's coincidence and me needing to be where I needed to be), I saw those people again, and again, spoke to the staff about it, just letting them know what had happened previously. The staff said that something seemed off, though sort of put it down to the parents being "distressed," and was wondering why she couldn't really hear the baby crying (I'm guessing because the father was somehow covering it's mouth again). It's my suspicion that the behaviour wouldn't change on their part, but this time was just being hidden better, which is sad and truly awful. I think part of me is who am I to take this on, and I think how could those people who saw it before not say something?

I came home and went to the acupuncturist. I've had really good experiences with acupuncture of the years and they have sorted out my shoulder pain before. However, this time me telling them about my experiences and perhaps it was "emotional trauma" and potentially intergenerational was different and delicate. I think it's all too easy to label things as "crazy" for some people. Anyways, I had a dream last night that I was hiding under a bed from these intruders. I was worried that they would see my legs poking out somehow. I also remember adjusting the bedspread after in case they came back. In the dream dictionary, hiding means looking for a sense of security and protection. A bed represents your intimate self and discovery of your sexuality. I can see how this is relevant on one level. I'm realizing that there has been this fear of men taking over, something I felt strangely free from on my holiday. The story my gm used to tell me of women putting dirt all over their faces to make themselves look ugly so the soldiers wouldn't rape them also came up (were these women family members or women in the village? I guess it would be family). The (acupuncture) point that flared up had to do with intergenerational trauma (as well as independence, letting go, consciousness/dissociation) and perhaps the acupuncture brought up these intergenerational memories which showed up in my dream, and perhaps relate, or are rooted, to some of my feelings about men as well? I'm just hypothesizing here, but when I injured my shoulder, I was walking alone at night. There was a sense of being a women alone in the world at night, and a fear along with the though of my gm. I felt none of the things I usually do about "creepy men," and not feeling safe, but was really cognizant of the good "dad" energy around me on holiday. It's interesting. Maybe these are the things I'm letting go of that were never really mine. It's just interesting that this story has been kicking around in my mind for my whole life and I wonder if it does play a part in the "protection drama" that played out in my family. I'll just leave that there.

[Hope67]

Hi Dolyvee,
I just came here and wanted to comment in your journal about the dream you had - but now I'm here, my partner has told me that some food we have cooking is ready - so I will hope to pop back later. 
Hope 

[Hope67]

Hi again Dollyvee,
My apologies for my dropping by and not managing to write what I had hoped to write - I am back now - but now that I'm back - I can't recall exactly what I was going to say before.  What I would like to say though, is that all you wrote about your dream and the themes that you read about in the dream book - it was thought provoking for me. 

I was pleased to hear that you'd felt 'free' whilst on holiday - I realise the context you mentioned, and it's good that you felt free.

Hope 

[dollyvee]

Thank you for what you wrote Hope - It was a good feeling and I hope it stays with me for a little bit longer.

Things have been coming up in sessions with NARM t. One was a body response when I thought about my mother's rage and her threats of physical violence. It's like a clenching and led to a cramp in my leg. She said that this is how young babies protect themselves because they don't have any other means to do it. I wasn't even going to write this. I don't know why? Why is there a part of me that wants to shut it out and think it's not relevant? I also talked about the incident where I threatened to call the cops if she touched me and how my gm and sgf were there and said nothing. It's dawning on me how it's basically condoning her behaviour, and not addressing what it was - aggressive/violent. I guess there's a part that feels then like maybe because she didn't say anything, it was my fault for approaching things in the way that I did and pushing the situation. It's also becoming apparent that no one addressed this abusive aspect of my m in my family. It was just me that had to deal with it.

It's interesting too, that when I talk about it it's like there's a part of me that felt it had to convince her about the validity (my reality) of what happened, and how I think that part, or feeling, is there a lot.

The other thing that came up was, and I can't remember what we were talking about, but it was like that I don't want to explain how I feel to someone (about what I can't remember what we were discussing) and say it, and how that reminded me of my m. My m had no emotion or it was always shut off/shut down. I guess a part of me thinks that that was normal, or maybe how I should behave.

[NarcKiddo]

You not wanting to explain how you feel to someone makes me think of how my T often asks me how I feel (and how I felt at the time) about things. Quite often I will have a tearful reaction to something and then again have that tearful reaction when telling T about it. It's always related to childhood but when T asks if I was sad about it as a child I say I don't remember feeling sad and am sure I did not. I think I was just shut down, and the tears now feel like an adult response of sadness on behalf of the child rather than the child being sad for herself. I realise this is not what you are describing but what you said brought that to mind so I am mentioning it.

My m was absolutely not shut down - her emotions were larger than life and only she was allowed to have things like anger or sadness or even fear. My f on the other hand was totally shut down. You saying maybe part of you thinks being shut down is normal resonates and I think part of me also thinks that is how I should behave. Partly because I was not allowed the emotions and partly because I did not/do not want to be like my m in any way and the main other behaviour example I had is my f.

[Chart]

It's interesting too, that when I talk about it it's like there's a part of me that felt it had to convince her about the validity (my reality) of what happened, and how I think that part, or feeling, is there a lot.

I get this feeling. I've experienced this my whole life: the desperate need for the other person to "see" the reality of something they've gotten completely wrong. This, I think is a major component of insecure attachment. During development we are incessantly looking to the "other," a caregiver, to validate our experience (like the child who doesn't start crying after falling down UNTIL he sees the panic expression on his father's face. We don't know what reality is during development. So we need others to help us navigate that.

Later, we're experienced enough and smart enough to know something is wonky, but the conditioning still keeps us "looking" to our caregiver to be sure. And as bad luck would have it, we're looking to them to validate the inappropriateness of their OWN behavior... which, of course, if they are a narcissist, they're never gonna do.

I run this same story over and over and over in my head: HOW am I going to get validation from X family member regarding this or that situation, or their behavior that deeply effected me.

Breaking this habit is extremely important. Self confidence and assurance that allows us to move on with the business of living and stop wasting it pouring our precious energy into the black hole of narcissistic denial.

[dollyvee]

Thank you Chart, but I think there might be a subtle difference. I don't think she got anything wrong, just the feeling that I'm not going to be believed, or my experiences didn't happen/matter. It's a background feeling of having to prove that it was real, I wasn't making it up. I think it's a byproduct of not being seen and being objectified (as an extension of my m, gm, gf). However, as time went on, I think there were big issues around "right" and "wrong" in my family because of the inability to grasp another's reality, and me having to "prove" myself.

I guess there's some awareness coming up around how alone I was in dealing with all this. So, child prevebal trauma, stuggling to have my reality "seen," to have me seen - which means the right to exist - and looking for some sort of safety in someone, that preverbal attachment that never seemed to be mirrored back to me, in people out in the world; trying to find some sort of "protection" in others; talking to therapists, doctors, trying to understand what was going on only to be told it didn't exist, or perhaps it was in my head (but these things don't feel in my head; I have other things that have happened that people have told me are impossible/not real. So, how do I not trust myself? How *do* I trust myself?); only renforcing the feeling of being alone, not being seen, or the struggle to be those things again, and feeling like it's failing. So, it's difficult when you've never had that viewpoint, or reality seen, on some level to make space for others viewpoints opinions about what might be happening with you at times, or the feeling like there was never just space for me. Add into the mix the want, need to fit in (attachment) to be certain things, to be seen, even though I am perhaps giving up parts of myself to do that. What are those parts that I had to give up? If it's a part that could be vulnerable, how to be vulnerable in a world where I was never protected and every experience is like a shock threat annhilation from which I must protect myself?

So, in a stream of consciousness way. I think this is what's going on right now. I'm thinking about going back on doing more energy work as it might help determine if maybe those things coming up were inherited memory. I also think I will have to do more somatic/body work to help with some of these feelings memories. One thing I forgot to mention to t was that towards the end of the acupuncture, I had some body twitches which happened a lot during EMDR. So, I'm guessing that something was releasing. I think it would also be good to process the body stuff coming up around my m

[Chart]

Hey Dollyvee, yeah I think I see what you mean. Right and wrong are very subjective terms. I am just wondering however, for an infant, not being seen, felt, or understood is the equivalent of nonexistence. For me any behavior leading to this state is destructive and unhealthy. I guess I'm confused. I need to reread your post. And as well my brain is mush this morning. 

[dollyvee]

I appreciate your comments. I think you're right that it is probably the equivalent of non-existence for an infant to have their reality denied, but I didn't see myself as trying to convince her that she's gotten something wrong, just that I wouldn't be believed. To me, I think it has to do with a freeze response, or feeling like there's going to be a freeze response that comes up, which I think might be important to pay attention to. I'm sorry you had to go through that with your family and trying to get validation from someone that isn't going to give it to you is frustrating and heartbreaking, especially when it's a parent. Perhaps it might also be about coming to terms with the realization that you can't convince them of your reality, and they may always see it as "wrong."

NK - I didn't see your comment before, but I agree that it's a battle to model ourselves after imperfect caregivers when we know something is off. I guess that's why they say to be gentle on yourself. I think it was a series of trying to find who do I look to, what do I want to be because I feel like something is off. There was never a safe space to have my emotions.

Something I "missed" that came up with NARM t was when I was describing some energy work that I was doing, and there was this protective energy that sort of reminded me of my gm, but was trying to emphasize that even in this work my family is right there, she said that what if it is true now? Ie what if she is a protective energy now? I didn't like that, or was difficult to accept. I think there's some anger in there, like if I did that she's absolved and is the person she pretended to be and everything still falls on me. Or maybe it's because feel like I still can't have any space? That I never got that space to begin with?

When I thought about working with the body yesterday, I remembered that someone mentioned working with the sacral chakra to me. This is the chakra of money, sex, and funnily enough, healthy boundaries. I listened to some Solfreggio frequencies for that chakra and fell asleep for about 10 minutes. It was quite peaceful. Then I woke, up and tried to organize my thoughts, or to try and be in Self and asked the parts that needed to step back. It was almost like things were going blank, and I'm guessing this is/was some kind of dissociation. My back sort of arched, and my arms went up at 90 degrees to my side. I thought it seemed like I was being pinned down, but thinking about it now, perhaps it's like when babies are distressed and  their arms are like that their sides. Again, the sort of blankness happened. I'm guessing this is freeze/dissociation. When I asked the parts to step back, and assured them that I was an adult and was here, my body started to move and my head twitched from side to side quite forcefully. After it was finished, I sort of collapsed? The rigidness in my spine went away. I guess I felt sort of different the rest of the day, maybe relaxed?

I did it again before sleep and had funnily enough, started thinking about money, or it manifested first as my anxieties around money. In IFS fashion, I asked how much of this is mine and think I saw a 10. So, went with 10% (haha that's so low for the amount these feelings have played a role in my life). Interestingly, my arms went back into the same position at my sides. I did the handing back to different generations with various feelings/results. I didn't think about my dad's side, what came to mind was my m's side. I could go into these a bit more, but maybe later. I just thought they were interesting.

[dollyvee]

It kind of happened at the end of therapy today that it came up what I've been feeling, or has been sort of affecting me. I spend a lot of my time being hypervigilant about things around me and peoples' behaviour towards me for example, in a large part due to my m's behaviour (abusive/aggressive), which I am starting to unpack. Because I have other part's which are "sensitive," I think when this behaviour is around, I will "protect," which feels like a rigidity in the body and mind where I am, or become, overly focused on this. I think this is where other people might see this and think that I am fearful, or afraid, as I try to manage this, which has been said in the past, and I've taken offence to, or become hurt by. It's also something which makes me feel alone? I would like to connect, and be seen, but I guess it's not up to someone else to see this in me. I guess there's a part of me that longs for a romantic interest to see this, or accept it, but I also acknowledge that it's outside of a lot of peoples' scope. So, I usually do what I have to do to protect myself, or feel that I have to do to protect my "self," which also then leaves me "alone" and this is where the feelings come in of not sorry for myself, but just sadness at this is the way things are? I guess being around certain people like that gives me the feeling of being a scapegoat again, and back in the position of doing what I have to do to protect myself.

I think I just dissociated with duolingo for a little bit after writing this. 

[Chart]

Dollyvee, can I try to "break apart" your last post? I think it could help to identify the key elements and better understand what's actually happening. And thus perhaps form a strategy for you to feel better about what's happening, and start to change the pattern (if you want and feel ready).

Here's how I interpret what you've written. And I might be totally off-base so you can totally ignore if you want.

1) Hypervigilence of peoples' behavior towards you...

2) You are conscious that this hypervigilence most probably comes from your mother's behavior towards you when you were young (and also in the present day?)

3) So you "interpret" other peoples' behavior OFTEN in the context of your mother's abusive behavior...

4) You are conscious that you are doing this as a form of protection (which I agree with you is pretty "normal")

5) Nonetheless, you "sense" that this "pushes others away" through your tense and defensive body posture/position, speech, etc

6) Apparently others have even commented to you exactly this: you are defensive and have even been aggressive at what you perceived as an "unjust" reaction on the part of the other person...

7) This whole experience leaves you feeling "alone" which is the opposite of what you want. You want to "connect", and you sense that it's very difficult. You perhaps even feel guilty, because you recognize that this whole cycle ultimately comes from your conditioning from your mother's behavior, so you say to yourself, "I'm alone and it's my fault..."

Does that sum up your post pretty accurately?

Now that we've broken it down, we can more easily identify certain "errors" in our interpretation of your cycle.

First, this is NOT your fault. You did not deserve to be abused. This is concrete: you are NOT to blame for these circumstances.

However, you ARE now responsible. Not in the sense of judgement, but in the sense of changing the pattern. (Taking your mother to court before a judge won't change your struggle to connect with others.)

So the question is: how can I change my reactions when relating to others?

This is of course a little more complex and involved, but I think you already know and are working on in therapy: Identify your feelings in the moment as much as possible... recognize that certain feelings are Trauma (your mother)... Forgive yourself for your self-criticism/s and/or inability to "connect" the way you want... Recognize that "others" usually have no idea what you are experiencing... Breath, relax and feel your body... (I personally struggle with this the most, but EVERYBODY in the therapeutic realm is talking about the somatic experience in healing trauma so I'm considering it wise on my part to at least try and listen )

So working along these lines, and over time, you're sure to make progress changing the patterns that are keeping you from what you want: connecting with others.

I'll add a last idea that I've actually used for years and is perhaps one of my greatest strengths. But I do recognize that it's not easy for most: Make explicit to "others" what you are feeling. We can't do this all the time, but at some point it's time to take a risk and let ourselves be vulnerable. This too can take a long time. We have to be ready and strong enough and have worked enough on the trauma we experienced to do it. But ultimately, opening up is the ONLY way to truly connect. This is the whole experience of existence. It's what we do here on the forum (of course we're much safer here, but still, often it's really hard to do even here).

In my life I've found that most people are at their bottom, desirous to do good. Even if they are ignorant of anything to do with trauma, almost all  humans understand and empathize with pain and emotions. So ultimately, finding those we can really connect with requires our willingness to do just that, open up.

But it HAS to be done at our own pace and rythme.

Hope I'm not saying stuff you already know. Just my observations from reading your journal and your last post. I think your doing great work and I LOVE the way your brain works things through long streams of consciousness. I'm guessing you are incredibly talented at working through long complex problems.

Sending love and support!
-Chart