dollyvee's recovery journal

[dollyvee]

This is still really sitting with me, the idea of not wanting to settle down and if it is really even my idea at all, or is it something I inherited from my m and gm? It has also made me wonder if my thoughts about a romantic interest not wanting a commitment with me are in fact, projections? That somehow I am the one who doesn't want the commitment and is not even aware.

I am doing the mantras. I feel like they are giving me more distance on situations that I would normally "get dragged into."

I had an uncomfortable conversation with t about DBR. It sort of felt like she was bringing something back to humiliation and that before led to shock from humiliation, and the solution to which was DBR. I used Slashy's experience (which sounds quite intense to me) and someone else's where they described it as three months of * to sort of say, it wasn't something I wanted to try at this time (again - this is the second or third time). I also said it felt like it disrupts parts and the system without necessarily getting them on board. She told me again how Frank Corrigan said this stuff is developed "preparts," to which I said, but I think the parts in our system are still formed as a response to that. She was upset and said that she was just explaining. However, I felt like I have already said this stuff and a) I wasn't listened to and what I said didn't matter because she's still saying the same thing b) feels like what I was saying is dismissed and this is the "right" way; what I said about how I think it would make me feel didn't seem to factor in. What's even more is that this happened after I was relaying how I was playing tennis with some guys and they were giving me pointers which didn't feel right (I'm quite new) and how I told them that, but they didn't seem to listen. T then did this "shift" which reminded me of my grandmother being loving (and when she would sort of "erase" what I said by being loving), and came closer to the screen, smiling, but not saying anything. I sort of questioned if it was time to go and said I noticed a shift when I was talking about the guys not listening to me and she said, what if you told them, hey this works for me? I said, yeah, but I feel like I said that to them and they didn't hear me. I felt like she shrugged, which seemed like she didn't believe me. Anyways, I will bring this up but it doesn't feel great, and I don't know if she is going to hear me.

After doing more of the meditations, I realized this morning that I don't think I have compassion for people that treat me a certain way. Maybe I still feel like I want or need something from them.

[Chart]

Hey DV, just reading your post and am having my usual feeling of... "so much to process in what you write". (This is not a criticism... it actually really excites me on a deeply cerebral/intellectual level, if that makes sense...)

What I feel are the "quantity" of details ("minutiae" is the Latin term) in your experiences that you relate. It seems you really pick up on incredibly subtle things, reactions particularly, in and from other people. And I think part of your difficulty is "validating" the "truth" of what you are picking up... from your t or the gym, tennis etc. I'm kinda extrapolating here, but since things are so subtle you question whether or not it's even there and the "who" it might be coming from: Me? my imagination? projection? or them...?

Have I got this kinda right?

If yes, my observation is this:

If you're "picking up" on something, what is the important element? Who? Where? What? When? Why?

Isn't there only one thing important in all this analysis? Which is: Why am I feeling this? Why?

I feel like there's a tendency to identify the "who". But is that really the most important? The fact that you are feeling something means that it exists, period, even if your imagining or projecting, it exists. "Responsabilité" doesn't really matter. Its what your feeling, and that's valid. 100% of the time.

After you can ask: Do I "want" to be feeling this? And if the answer is 'no', then doing the digging/archeology/detective work and strategies to "change".

Me, I've found that I've done much much better in my analysis of situations just "not caring" about other people and things because by a quick inventory I realize it's not important to me. I can drop that and move to something that is important to me.

I believe there are two major ways to get "control" over the processes in my life: One is setting boundaries and limits with other people. And the second is not allowing the behavior of others to have an effect on my emotions. I can't change others, and often I can't change the emotions that arise in me from circumstances... but I can release those emotions from being powerless in front of others behavior simply by "owning" those emotions and since I'm in charge I can also just let them go.

Doesn't always work, but more and more.

Did that make sense?

[Chart]

I also just wanted to say quickly that I think DBR is like Emdr in the sense that it depends on what you're targeting regarding the intensity of the experience. I didn't find DBR more intense, but that's maybe just what I was working on. I think context is the key element and whether or not we're ready and prepared to approach certain situations and trauma elements.

[dollyvee]

Hi Chart, I'm glad you found something that worked for you. I think this is probably why advice on OOTS can be a tricky thing because what works for someone doesn't mean it works for someone else, and one person's experience isn't another's.  I myself also do this and of course want to help. As you said, control is a thing and maybe it has more to do with us needed to control what is uncontrollable in our own lives, but that's just my two cents. Again, if I could just tell myself to stop feeling powerless when I was in the company of other people, I don't think I would've needed to be in therapy in the first place. To me, the healing work is coming from understanding the dynamics of what happens when those emotions come up and where they're coming from, which is what I explore in my journal.

I think the issue is me explicitly saying something and then people not taking on board what I've actually said, why I feel that way about it, etc etc. To me, this is setting a boundary, saying how I feel about something. For example, telling the men that the form they were suggesting didn't work or feel right for me. Or t coming back again to DBR without really addressing my fears and concerns about it ie underwrites parts. And I know that some people have had good reactions to DBR. However, for others it hasn't been easy. To me, there's no, ok do you want to look at your parts and maybe see what we can do to get them on board? It's not even addressing what I feel is right for me. I also understand that toxic shame causes us to doubt ourselves. My internal antenna of what is ok for me has been skewed by years of people telling me that what I think is right for me is not, and them telling me what I should be doing. So, without someone supporting that agency, I think it can bee a hard thing to come back to.

I also think perhaps that you're misinterpreting my questioning the dynamics of what's going between me and t without allowing for the transference that I might be considering? That's usually why I write down the reactions that I talk about, but I've never explicitly said this could be transferance. I also wouldn't agree to just ignore and get on with t's reaction. I feel like therapy is the place to explore these kinds of things.

Thank you for your comment thought, I think it's help me crystallize where I'm at with some things and what some underlying issues are.

Hugs,
dolly

[Chart]

DV, If I helped in any way I'm happy and also happy you took it in the spirit it was intended: external (distant) perspective. I agree with everything you've pointed out. And as you said and I totally agree, what works for one doesn't necessarily work for someone else. I really don't want to seem to be "giving advice", I just want to share my perspective and relate how I am working on (perhaps) similar things. Thanks!

[dollyvee]

I'm kinda extrapolating here, but since things are so subtle you question whether or not it's even there and the "who" it might be coming from: Me? my imagination? projection? or them...?

Have I got this kinda right?

If yes, my observation is this:


Did that make sense?

Thanks Chart - I understand about not wanting to give advice. I think it might be the "extrapolation" leading to what worked for you when perhaps the extrapolation wasn't where I was initially going with something, which is interesting to me because it kind of solidifies the point I was making in the original post about not being listened to. Funny how the world works like that. I'm taking any ill intent from it, just explaining what I'm seeing.

_____________________

Powering through more dreams last night has had me thinking about something I might not have touched on. I've talked about how my gm was loving and how it's been a struggle for me to get past that because I feel guilty. This morning I was thinking about, or had a flash, of when she would ask me to do something and how that made me feel. It was done in a you're so good at it/special kind of way and there was something in me that wanted that feeling and to do those things to feel acceptance. I guess that gave me existence and a purpose. It was only later that I came to feel like they weren't my responsibilities to do. Looking back, I guess it's a kind of manipulation, but at the time, because of how I think things were with my mother, and all around, I wanted to feel that specialness. I guess this was how it was reinforced too that it was my job to make her feel better, and to make people feel better.

I had another sort of sex dream last night, but not really. I was in a tram going up a mountain and a doctor was behind me holding points on my hips, and I felt a release that might have had sexual undertones to it, but I think it was more just the energy if that makes sense. When we got to the top, I had some cash in my hand for payment, and at first he took the wrong bill (too much), but he corrected it before taking the correct amount. However, when he took the money, he also (accidentally?) took a cheque that had something written on it by my gm. I called out after him that he took it, but he didn't hear me. I remember thinking that the cheque wasn't for that much money, but perhaps part of me wanted the note back?

It led me to think about why I might still be so connected to my gm. A cheque can apparently mean some way of thinking in some area of your life is outdated, or that you feel indebted to someone. Money can also refer to your attitudes about love and matters of the heart, sexuality and power. To dream that you are short changed (which the money was then given back) can be a sign about self-esteem issues). So, here it was again something to do with love and my gm was still sort of involved. Though it does seem like he took the cheque, or outdated way of thinking, with him perhaps.

Interestingly (ha - I love this word), I had a dream the other night about how it might seem indulgent that I bought food for people instead of cooking. Cooking symbolizes to want to make people dependent on you, or to influence others in a way that they become more dependent on you (it could also be your nurturing side, creativity). What I understand is that I didn't want to make people dependent on me, that there's a wanting of independence? Something I don't feel I was allowed to have with my gm. Perhaps her love, or nuturing, was a way to make others more dependent on her? Or that I offer nurturing to others to make them more dependent on me, but am moving past this? Or that I feel I must be dependent on others? It's interesting how these themes keep coming up.

[dollyvee]

Going back to the situation with my gm and I feel like there's another compenent which I didn't address and that is fear. If did the things she wanted, then I wouldn't have to feel whatever I was feeling (left out, scared that no one would be there?), which I think is ultimately about fear.

I've been watching the Menendez mini series (that's another story) and the lawyer said something that struck me when holding her new born baby, which was they can't calm down because they never know what's coming. That's what our parents were supposed to do for us, which was help sooth us so that we would be ok and know that we could handle what was coming. Maybe this is where my split between dependence and independence comes from because without someone else to tell me, or soothe me that it's going to be ok, I don't have an awareness of that? There was no, you're doing it on your own and that's going to be ok.

I had some big emotions/emotional reactions come up yesterday. I spent some time playing tennis with the men I was talking about and they were quite effusive in their praise about how fast I was improving (I did some online learning). I thought about how it felt to be critisized before, and how harshly I must have been critisized in the past (or to have the stakes maybe matter much, much more?) to feel the distress I felt before about when they were saying things to me. Now, it felt like they were maybe helping me become a better player (and that there was no other agenda). I don't know. The cycle of mistakes, making myself better to excel, and then gaining praise, is also a cycle I know well. Maybe now I'm doing it because I enjoy the competition? Maybe I need that competition because that's how I get better, get that praise and acceptance? I don't know, I just thought I'd put that there.

[dollyvee]

Something that's come up in a couple different guises recently I think is the need to limit myself, or not do something, because I fear not belonging. I guess this is essentially that if I do x, I will be alone, which is something I learned growing up and how I came to accept unacceptable behaviour. I feel like it gets very "real," very quickly.

I commented on Lakelynn's post about boundaries that t commented how I tend to judge myself for saying something, or setting a boundary. For example, I felt bratty by telling these players (who I see are better than me at the game) that I don't want their feedback, or "wisdom" they're trying to impart. I can't remember if it was in relation to this, or something else that came up, but t asked me if I wanted to fit in with people like that? (I think it was in relation to some people at the gym that I don't feel are great tbh). The short answer is not particularly. I don't see certain people as being kind, or who I would want in my life. However, underneath it is a feeling/belief that I have to fit in with people I think for survival, and that this is just the way the world works. Something I heard over and over growing up.

For example, there is a man who I have heard say pretty sexist things on numerous occasions. He is also someone who I try to avoid, but feel like there's tension because I'm actively avoiding this person (well not being polite?), and he's a part of the "community." I just feel like he has no idea what he's talking about, and he chose to talk over me about something he knows nothing about on an occasion where I was explaining something related to my field of work. I have just found out that he has been "warned" a few times for showing women how to "properly" do exercises and touching them while doing it. Yes, I feel validated that my "suspicions" were correct, but also remembering the tension I guess is the best way to put it when I felt like I was standing up for myself, and setting a boundary by avoiding this man. He's the kind of guy that chat with everyone, and knows everyone. So, by me standing up to one person I feel, even though I may be justified, that I'm making waves in a whole group and that means threatened with being excluded and being alone.

The other thing I think growing up as a child of abuse is that you're very sensitive to power dynamics, and when someone might have power over you and when you might be powerless. At least I am. I don't have power over groups for example, and I guess I feel like they could make my life miserable, or threaten my survival if I said anything. This is also happening to a certain extent with work. I also don't know how much of this is a "thing" because that's what I was told and internalized growing up, that this is the way the world works and the feeling like there are people out to "get" you. I often think that there are nice people in the gym for example, why don't I block these other people out and focus on them? Is it because I'm just repeating my patterns? I guess deep down there is the need to belong, and the fear of exclusion as a threat to my survival.

[Armee]

 

I respect you not trying to fit in with people and groups who are not nice. That guy sounds awful and I bet he gives a lot of people the creeps and they just go along to get along, which isn't always the best policy, as you very much know and live.

I also think it's not a bad idea to look at the patterns the way you are and have been doing, and see if there are tweaks that can be done to break free of some of the stuff that was conditioned into you by abuse, while still finding ways to protect yourself.

It's a tough balance. T has been trying to teach me this concept of "soft in the front" (tummy, heart) "strong in the back" (backbone, legs). It reminds me of the dichotomy you are grappling with here in your post. What he means and is trying to get across to me is that there's a way for me to be kind without being completely taken over by people. I can be kind while still holding up my backbone. It's taking awhile to sink in and feel meaningful but I'm starting to feel that way now.

In a way it sounds like maybe we are the opposite on this. It sounds like you were trained to look out for people,that they will always take advantage of you. And so you have your back up at the first sign of this. All strong in the back, not so soft in the front. This is not a bad thing though a little more balance might make your life feel better.

I was trained (like literally trained) to give people whatever they want and to suppress all my feelings about it, always in service to others, including abusers. So when I am triggered I revert to that. The first sign of "danger" and I watch myself become more and more compliant with no backbone at all. I do that and I keep getting the same I've always gotten - paradoxically more abuse. What I was taught as a kid was designed to put me in more danger and it's still the automatic reaction to trauma triggers. Same for you perhaps...maybe a bit different.

But my point I wanted to make was that the more healed I become the easier it has been to reverse those reactions...to allow myself to have both backbone and kindness. It's the same with other problematic areas of my life. To some extent I could try to fix those things along the way, and have stuggled mightily ti try to, but for me at least it seems like healing the underlying trauma fixes those things almost automatically...they make sense and are easy to do once the trauma is more healed.

I think that makes sense to me too because they are reactions to trauma triggers that we are seeing play out in our lives. We can't really think or force the trauma triggers into submission. They are going to keep sounding that alarm until there's no need to.

And weirdly the alarm ends up getting me into more danger. It gets the same thing over and over.

I don't know if that is helpful or just too much and too nonsensical. But it struck me as I was reading that what you are going through reminds me of the strong in the back, soft in the front concept. Which isn't going to fix anything but if it could worm it's way into your mind as you are deciding how to handle various situations it's worth putting here in case it helps at all.

---

Good job learning something new with tennis, and on your own terms. it sounds like you are learning fast!

And it makes sense to me given your history that you don't want to have people encroach in your space or offer advice and guidance. There was always a lot of manipulation by people who were trying to use you for their own benefit as a kid (mom and gm come to mind based on what you've written on the forum in the past, but probably others too). Protecting yourself isn't a bad thing.

[dollyvee]

Thank you Armee - I understand what you're saying about the alarms getting you into more trouble I think.

After, I've written the above and started noticing this dynamic about fitting in, or what I'm telling myself when I set a boundary, I've been having "mishaps." I don't know if it's a form of self-sabotage in a way? It's like part of me is "not paying attention" (and now remembering that FOO used to say this a lot), or that I'm subconsciously trying to stop myself from being successful in standing up for myself. I accidently hit someone's car in a parking lot, doing a very silly thing, and I pride myself on being a really good driver; I injured myself in the gym doing a very silly thing and seemingly being distracted by someone's behaviour; I also was talking about someone at work that I "can't seem to get away from" and spilled coffee all over myself. I just don't really understand why or seem to get the connection really. Or even get to that part of my brain.

I also don't like talking about fear because I feel like I've been judged for being "fearful" in the past, and I don't feel like it's merited. Consciously, I don't feel fearful, though maybe I am cautious, and I also don't think it's a reaction that I really have control over. It's like it's also coming from this different part of my brain, and the only thing I can do is slow my reactions down and observe it. However, when I do, sometimes I feel like I don't have another response for how to "treat" it. Maybe just noticing is enough for now.

________________________

I also brought up what was bothering me about my conversation with t and DBR, and it was during a conversation where I was explaining how I feel like people don't really listen to me, and the reason why I felt upset (though I guess I was just more firm) was that I felt I had already explained my view on DBR and it wasn't listened to. Though there wasn't any response really on her side, which does't sit well with me. I don't think I was chastising or reprimanding her, just explaining how I felt. I feel like I am trying to communicate more when there are things that come up. However, when met with things like this it does give me pause.

[dollyvee]

Pretty, pretty garbage day. I don't know how much detail I can go into really, but crossed paths with someone who had harassed me at work in a new environment, when I brought it up with the powers that be that I would not be continuing to work with this person, they basically tried to gaslight me that I had never mentioned it, even though I couldn't go into detail for legal reasons, but I did look at who was going to be present and this person was not accounted for at the time, and I had no reason to believe he would be. They were also angry at me (!!!) even after I explained to them what had happened, telling me it would affect future work. Not to mention that I am the one that's already lost a significant amount of money because I won't with this person.

I don't know what's worse, dealing with someone like that, or feeling like I had my emotions out defending myself. I *think* what might be the issue is how close it felt to dealing with my m when she went after me about something I "did." Like somehow it was my fault. Everything quickly changed when I think they realized how their response might actually be a legal issue, or publicity issue. I guess what feels real is the vehemence that my m used to come after me with.

[Desert Flower]

That's horrible Dolly to be going through these awful emotions again. It's just shocking the way they gaslit you and made it seem your fault. It's not, I'll say just to be sure. But I can imagine you would feel crappy. I hope you feel better soon. Sending you support. 

[dollyvee]

Thank you DF  - people and situations like this actually exist.


I think I was stuck in a freeze response yesterday, but was aware that I was stuck in a way, or had awareness of sort of being scared and stuck. It's actually really hard to me to write this, and I'm surprised by that. I did have support yesterday and someone I could go to about it, that backed me and my work up, and assured me it wouldn't be the impact they were threatening. I feel like I have to keep that in mind, and how funny since I was just writing about power over/ and that kind of dynamic where it could come back on me in my journal. I feel like this experience gave me the connection to my feelings, or made the emotional connection to when this happened growing up apparent. When I think before it would be in my head, or more cerebral. I mean I get why I do that I guess, but also how subconscious it is to approach things without "emotion."

__________________

Funnily enough too, I had some really strong dreams the night before about this situation, or basically being bullied and have everyone laugh about how I wasn't running (to people please), but calmly walking back to redo the thing, which wasn't even something I was supposed to be doing. I was also trying to "talk myself out" of this dream, that I had subconsciouly felt something was a bit off, or there were question marks and a couple of things I was unsure about.

I'm also realizing while writing that that it's pretty significant that I had another direction/option with people that I knew and would be probably lovely, and I'm wondering, or think it's significant that I felt I had to do this. Because I need to feel that I'm still not somehow good enough, or I need to prove myself in situaitons where I know there's a greater probability that I won't fit, or that aren't the best fit? That this drama and stress is unfortunately what feels so familiar. Turning down that option because I still don't trust myself, or that things would work out the other way. I dunno, is there a part of me that felt I had to put myself in that position, or that if I didn't, I would somehow be running away, which is a sentence that comes up a bit in therapy.

 

[dollyvee]

I have been reading Open Heart, Open Mind by Tsoknyi Rinpoche and I found the following passages particularly strong though I feel that in the muck of cptsd sometimes these moments of clarity are especially difficult to come by.

The house represents the patterns that bind us to a seemingly solid perspective of ourselves and the world around us. The lamp represents the luminous quality of the spark of our basic nature. No matter how tightly the shades and shutters are closed, inevitably a bit of the light from inside the house shines through.

Rinpoche, Tsoknyi. Open Heart, Open Mind (p. 51). Ebury Publishing. Kindle Edition.

"The only way I could calm myself down was to look for what I'd heard called a 'light at the end of the tunnel'—a desperate hope that conditions at my job would change, or that I could somehow get another job that paid more. Or maybe I'd get a new boss who didn't demand so much. Or maybe the people whispering behind my back would get fired. "Then I started looking at my low opinion of myself, and I began to see that the problem wasn't the job but the thoughts and feelings I was having about myself, whether I was in the office or at home trying to make some sort of meal for my husband and two children. Looking for that 'light at the end of the tunnel' was nothing more than the flip side of fear—a hope that some sort of change in circumstances would rescue me from the feeling that I wasn't good enough. Gradually I began to see that hope and fear were nothing more than ideas. They really had nothing to do with my job. They had to do with my thoughts and feelings about my abilities.

"Slowly I began to understand that the light I was looking for was the tunnel and that the tunnel I felt trapped in was the light. The only difference between them was the way I saw myself and my situation. If I saw myself as inadequate, I would perform inadequately. If I saw myself as competent, I would perform competently.

"That clarity has made a huge difference. When I feel incompetent or unimportant, I can look at those thoughts and feelings, and I can see that I have a choice. I can give in to them or I can just look at them. And if I look at them, I learn more about myself and the ability I have to make decisions about how I respond to events in my life."

Your essential nature—your buddha nature—isn't just unlimited in its potential to be; it is also awake and alert to the various forms your experience of life may take.

If I were to become aware of each of my patterns rather than be carried away by them, their power over me would fade. I'd be able to experience their appearance as nothing more than a combination of factors,

Rinpoche, Tsoknyi. Open Heart, Open Mind (p. 53). Ebury Publishing. Kindle Edition.

I feel this links especially to what I was talking about with my "whoopsies:"

If I saw myself as inadequate, I would perform inadequately. If I saw myself as competent, I would perform competently.

Somehow I think I am already in a position, or frame of mind, that I think I will "perform inadequately," or that "someone else is right, and I am wrong" (ie what I was told growing up), and that sort of "takes over."  I think this is a young part probably, which needs to believe what my family did for survival. There is no space, or precedent, to show that I will preform adequately, and that I'm not a total mess up, or "hopeless" as my gf used to say.

I also had to consistently suppress my adequacy to so that others could feel good about themselves (or what I feel like I have to do; I didn't want to leave my family "behind," so that I would stay connected; my gm felt better about herself when there was a crisis with me), but I also think that I suppress it as well because how I preformed was used as a measure of acceptance by my family. They were "happy" when I did well and me doing "well" within very specific, academic or financial terms, meant I was accepted, but also that I had to "take care" of them. Or, it open me up to more responsibility, and taking care of more of their feelings etc because I was the competent one. I think this is really complex stuff, so more clarity would be great - haha.

[Desert Flower]

Thank you Dolly, always good to be reminded of our Buddha Nature.