How does dissociation feel like for you?

[Bella]

Hi!
After I started therapy a couple of months ago, I've experienced what I think is dissociation.
I've had identity confusion, and a sense of being fragmented for a long time, and I've had clear experiences of depersonalization, where I leave my body and look at my surroundings from above. The first time that happened, it happened suddenly and it was defenetly not something I chose. But after the first couple of times, I could leave my body when I wanted to. When emotions and stress were to painful. (And then during a better period in my life, I was unable to do it. I lost the ability to leave my body.)
Now I've also experienced a couple of times in therapy that my body just shuts down. I can't move or talk! But I do realise what's going on around me, and I can hear what my therapist is saying. I just can't respond.
These experiences are pretty clear to me, and I know it happened without me choosing it.
But in almost every session, I also experience kind of zoning out. I just can't figure out if I actually choose to do this, or if it happens automatically. In a sense I really don't want to dissociate, cause then the session feels in vain. But on the other hand dissociation feels comfortable, and it's really annoying when the therapist tries to "wake" me...
I think some child part craves human touch, and wants to dissociate, to receive that from the therapist.
Am I just fooling myself here? Can any of you relate to this?
I'm on a quest to find the "truth" about my experiences. And nothing but the truth! This might be a personality trait in me that is not particularly helpful, cause I get "stuck" and confused very often. I'm just really scared that I make things up. That now I've read a lot about CPTSD, so my psyche kind of makes these things happen for no reason other than a need to be seen and recognized. That I make up my own story, and symptoms to match the diagnosis.
My mind keeps going in circles about these things. I can't stop it....

[woodsgnome]

This is yet another c-ptsd symptom that seems to vary quite a bit for various people, but I'll try to describe a little of my own history with it.

I'm sure I probably started during, after, and perhaps even before (if I could 'see it coming') certain triggers occurred. I didn't notice them much then.

Recognizing these, though, didn't happen until a couple years ago when I noticed I was zoning out during a therapy session. Recognizing that I was 'off', I started apologizing to the T for this, but she immediately soothed me by explaining it had happened before, but that my noticing it was a good sign. And, most important, was entirely natural, that of course there are times when the old defensive mechanism kicks in like that.

So before writing myself off as a lost cause, she suggested I just continue with the process, know it might happen, with the most important immediate outcome being that I not beat myself up if it happens again. That slight shift in attitude has helped me deal with it better and head off the inner critic's nagging me as if I'm forever damaged.

If I do notice or sense this might happen, I take a breath, try to calm with an inner saying (mine is 'love/peace' said inwardly) just go slowly, perhaps even just stopping. If I need more, my T excellent at allowing me space to re-orient to where I was and to note that I'm fully safe.

A couple of times (IF I started catching myself dissociating) this stopping helped to understand what the exact flashback or trigger might have been; but sometimes I don't catch that or things just seem too foggy.

I do this inner noticing elsewhere, but of course the safety factor I still may not feel confident about. So it varies, and sometimes I can find myself a bit off where things were, but often it doesn't even get to the point where anyone else notices. That I do is still irritating, but also relieving if I indeed realize what just happened.

So for me, just knowing it's a natural post-trauma symptom and can be recognized, especially as one gets to a safer, less defensive sense of panic about its presence, can make a difference. Like so much with c-ptsd, it's slow and takes patience, and perhaps even some painful slips back to what, after all, has often been a lifelong habit.

I hope that at least explains how I've come to see it, and that you'll see an improvement in this area as well. 

[Bermuda]

Whenever people talked about dissociation, I never thought it was something that applied to my CPTSD until I was in therapy, and my therapist stopped talking, looked at me, and asked me what was happening to me just then. I just said that I had tunnel vision, I described it as tunnel vision, and that sometimes once I slip into this dark tunnel it's hard to get out. For me, I meant this quite literally, it's dark, my eyes can only focus on a minute detail in the room, everything I hear becomes distant, and I don't have a self. When I'm under stress I also have really bad numbness in my extremities, so that usually precedes my tunnel vision. People probably think I'm seeing into the future.

This is a demonstration of one type of dissociation that I would call a short term dissociation, but I also have more long lasting periods where I just don't know who I am, what I like, I can't place things I've done in a day in a sequential order and am just generally aloof... I'm not an expert, but maybe this can also happen if I have lots of instances of stress in one time period (example holiday week), but alas I cannot say that for sure since I live inside myself, whoever's that is.

I have no idea if that helps or just complicates things but as woodsgnome said it's really different for everyone.

[Bella]

Thank you both for your response to my post. I appreciate your input and that you share your own experiences. And yes, I've also heard dissociation can be different for everyone. I just wish my mind/body could accept this and relax about it! I'm being a neurotic mess about these things! How pathetic would'nt that be, if I make up these things?? That I actually choose zoning out just to get recognition...
Like you mentioned, woodsgnome, I've heard having an inward saying like love, peace, self acceptance, etc is important. But I just can't bring myself to do it cause the self loathing is to strong. I don't deserve feeling good about myself.
Just one question: when you feel you are zoning out, or have tunnel vision etc, is it mostly uncomfortable, or can it also feel ok in some sense? Like my therapist is teaching me ways to ground myself to get back to here and now, but parts of me wants to stay dissociated.. if that is what this is! I don't want to be here and now... I'm so frustrated and confused.. 

[Bermuda]

You sound a bit down, have you spoken to your psych about this feeling of wanting to dissociate? To me, to stay dissociated would be to disappear and not be an active member of society or to be a hollow shell of a human just going through the motions, which is definitely not what I want. That would also mean to give up control, which for me is also a huge security breach. I don't really know what you mean by zoning out to get recognition, or grounding techniques, since I don't actually consciously know when I am being dissociative.

You commented earlier that your psych thinks you're making it up, that paired with the comment about getting recognition makes me wonder if you have researched much on attachment disorder and attention seeking behaviour? There's also some research on trauma survivors having a higher propensity for creating false memories where your brain can automatically fill in the gaps or alter the truth to protect itself. Attention seeking and altered memories are very different from lying. We as humans need love and attention, and need to be able to be hopeful to survive. I read about this years ago though, so unfortunately I don't have resources to share. I hope some of this information can be helpful to you, or at least bring you some comfort.

[woodsgnome]

**TW** in paragraph 4, there's mention of physical pressure applied by an abuser

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Bella, you asked, "when you feel you are zoning out, or have tunnel vision etc., is it mostly uncomfortable, or can it also feel ok in some sense?"

Great question. My dissociation doesn't seem consistently one way or another.  I think the dominant factor starts with my mind being quite hyperactive around people in general -- alert but scanning for danger. I can therefore sense danger where it might not really be present.

In that sense, it's horrible; but I often don't realize this happened right away; afterwards I might notice I've missed a few seconds or more of being fully present. Inwardly, it's like I'm setting up to run away. It helps that my T is very understanding of what's going on; though she prefers if I notice it myself first (a sign that my self-concept might be improving).

*TW ahead per externally applied bodily pressure* The worst is when I feel like there's a sort of pressure being applied, like someone is pressing down on my shoulders in a threatening manner (this was done to me by an abuser, but the feeling seemed to start long before those incidents occurred). I feel like 'burrowing in' -- the feeling of wanting to disappear where I can't be hurt. It's frustrating to feel this threatened, long past the actual danger. Fortunately, it also seems like I'm good at disguising my reaction.

Since my T explained more about dissociation, if I catch what's going on I feel 'okay' in some sense. I guess it helps to have her supportive presence at those times. But if I sense the stuff coming on around others, it can make me feel a little panicky.

As for the inner sayings I referred to in my previous response here, I'm like you in that I can easily forget them in the moment of dimming out, but I've tried to slowly plant the confidence that I can do this in the back of my mind, but it's a long ways to build this up from so many years of habits.

I continue to work on this. And hope you can find some comfort in knowing you're not alone with this. Like so many symptoms of c-ptsd, finding a sure 'cure' for this has many roadblocks, but I guess it's like so much -- it requires patience and building resilience and self-forgiveness.   

[Not Alone]

Bella,

Dissociation has different degrees and feelings for me. Sometimes it's fairly minor; focusing on something else instead of what is happening in the present moment. It can feel like I'm going down a tunnel or falling in a chasm or like everyone/thing is being pulled away from me. I have been told by my therapist that everyone dissociates. (Think about when you are driving and then "come to" and ask yourself where am I and where am I headed.) When we experienced trauma the natural reaction and one method of survival was to dissociate.

I also get in states where I can't move or talk.

A surprising finding of Van der Kolk's research was that a region in the left frontal lobe called Broca's area went offline when traumatized subjects experienced flashbacks. Broca's area is a speech center, and is similarly affected during a stroke. Reliving trauma shuts down people's ability to express what they are experiencing in words, just as in a stroke.
https://fortelabs.co/blog/the-body-keeps-the-score-summary/

[Bella]

To me, to stay dissociated would be to disappear and not be an active member of society or to be a hollow shell of a human just going through the motions, which is definitely not what I want. That would also mean to give up control, which for me is also a huge security breach. I don't really know what you mean by zoning out to get recognition, or grounding techniques, since I don't actually consciously know when I am being dissociative.

Bermuda, this is exactly why I'm confused about this in the first place. You clearly find dissociation uncomfortable and something you don't want to happen. That is how I perceive dissociation when I read about it as well. That one cannot control it, and that it can potentially ruin ones life if not treated and assessed properly. Dissociation as in term of having a split sense of identity, feelings, perceptions etc. I can really relate to, but dissociation in terms of depersonalization and derealization is very confusing to me. Like I wrote before, parts of me kind of want to zone out. Even though I lose control, being in that state feels comfortable! That's why I question my experience as being dissociation in the first place. I'll read up on attachment disorders and attention seeking behaviours though... maybe it will help me make some sense of it all! Thank you again for commenting on my post!

[Bella]

I feel like 'burrowing in' -- the feeling of wanting to disappear where I can't be hurt. It's frustrating to feel this threatened, long past the actual danger. Fortunately, it also seems like I'm good at disguising my reaction.

Since my T explained more about dissociation, if I catch what's going on I feel 'okay' in some sense. I guess it helps to have her supportive presence at those times. But if I sense the stuff coming on around others, it can make me feel a little panicky.

Woodsgnome, I can really relate to this. Appreciate you put this into words for me, and make me realise I'm not alone. Don't know why, but this whole thing about dissociation feels so shameful to me! Hearing your experience with it is really helpful! Thank you!

[Bella]

Notalone: Thank you for validating my experiences, and for posting that link! I've read it, and the thoughts and perspectives it gives are really helpful! It makes me understand more of my seemingly weired reactions, not only the dissociation part.

[mojay]

Hi Bella, thank you so much for writing your post and trusting us with your experiences. It sounds like you are putting in hard work to better understand yourself and that is very commendable.

I want to give you a little bit of reassurance about your fear that you are "making it up":
I did not realize I was dissociating until I learned what dissociation is. I did not realize that many of my CPTSD symptoms were, in fact, symptoms until I learned about my disorders. Sometimes things can be going on beneath the surface that we don't realize are there until our attention is called to it.

Like you mentioned, woodsgnome, I've heard having an inward saying like love, peace, self acceptance, etc is important. But I just can't bring myself to do it cause the self loathing is to strong. I don't deserve feeling good about myself.

I also struggle with self-loathing. Perhaps a good place to start is just acceptance? Accept that you are experiencing alarming things. Accept that you are on a journey to understand yourself. Accept, even, that it may be a difficult journey (this one is hard!!). Perhaps reframing the goal from "feeling good about yourself" to "becoming more knowledgeable about yourself" will help? Especially because you mentioned that you like to get to the bottom of things

Just one question: when you feel you are zoning out, or have tunnel vision etc, is it mostly uncomfortable, or can it also feel ok in some sense?

I would describe my derealization as "zoning out". A lot of the time my derealization feels "okay" as in, nothing feels particularly wrong but I know that it's not right either. I can float through life like I'm half-awake. Tasks feel like they're months away or that they've already happened - this can be very confusing. Typically scary places are suddenly flat and not a threat. My emotions are of little consequence, nothing can sway me to positive or negative. Rarely do I even remember how I felt about something (or if I felt anything) while derealized. I find myself asking myself "is this my bed? is this my living room? is this my food?" etc. I think the biggest "wrong" for me about derealization is how confused I feel by relatively ordinary situations.

It is much less scary to me than depersonalization. I hate how I experience depersonalization and don't feel good enough to write about it too much in depth right now. However, something I experience is the feeling that my experiences are not my own and I'm "making it all up". Hope that tidbit can be of use because you have mentioned that.

A surprising finding of Van der Kolk's research was that a region in the left frontal lobe called Broca's area went offline when traumatized subjects experienced flashbacks. Broca's area is a speech center, and is similarly affected during a stroke. Reliving trauma shuts down people's ability to express what they are experiencing in words, just as in a stroke.
https://fortelabs.co/blog/the-body-keeps-the-score-summary/

Thank you for posting this NotAlone, you always have such great resources!!! I haven't made it to that part in TBKTS but this has given me a lightbulb moment in regards to a treatment I'm receiving (rTMS).

[Bella]

Thank you so much, Mojay, for your validation and support, for sharing your experiences, and that you took the time to write to me.

Possible TW about identity confusion and frustration! I totally understand if you choose not to read the rest!

I agree acceptance probably is a key to start my healing process. Both acceptance towards myself and also different reactions. My therapist too have mentioned that several times.
Parts of me really want to start healing, and break off everything that is holding me back. The self-loathing is defenetly holding me back!

But then there are other parts of me that "takes over", and whenever that happens, I only feel defiant, rebellious even, and couldn't care less what happens to me or what kind of future I'll have. I just don't care! Other parts again are just terrified about everything, especially change, and ferociously resist every feeble attempt. How the * am I supposed to conquer this? I feel utterly helpless! One moment I want this, the next moment I want the total opposite. I guess this trait, really is the most severe dissociative symptom in me. The whole identity confusion thing.
Anyways..  I know your suggestions are the way to go. I guess I just have to keep trying and not give up. I read some place that to reparent oneself is important. Can't say I look forward dealing with the rebellious part though... 
I'm sorry if my frustration made you triggered or uncomfortable. Not many people in my world understand this frustration, so sometimes it does spill over here on the forum.
If you've read all the way down here, I say thank you again! I can really sense in your response that you are a warm-hearted and caring person. Sending a thank you hug if that is okey with you! 

[mojay]

Hi Bella,
Thank you for the careful TW in your response, I really appreciate that. I was not uncomfortable or triggered by your frustration at all, it's the opposite in fact, I really feel for you.

How the * am I supposed to conquer this? I feel utterly helpless! One moment I want this, the next moment I want the total opposite. I guess this trait, really is the most severe dissociative symptom in me. The whole identity confusion thing.

I feel you you on this one, I used to swing wildly between what I want. Now that I'm a year into good treatment (have had troubles finding a good therapist) I feel more stable in my treatment goals. I think feeling helpless is a natural response given what CPTSD survivors have endured. I just want you to know that you're not alone on this journey and there is hope!! I believe in you, I can tell by your post that you are working really hard to overcome your struggles.

I hope that OOTS can be a huge resource for you, the "Self-Help & Recovery" board has really good info, I especially like the "Inner Child" board for ideas on reparenting myself. Sending you lots of love and light 

[Bella]

Thank you for giving me hope! Hearing from other people who have endured the same kind of things, and have come further along in the healing journey, is effective! It is actually possible to conquer this! Even though my imagination for the future; wants, hopes, and goals, is non-existent at the moment.

I'll take your encouragement with me!

Sending love and light right back to you!