The Yo-Yo of Self

Started by Dante, August 15, 2021, 11:55:25 AM

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Dante

I am not sure where to post this question, so I'll try here but I can move it if I need to.  I've known for a long while now that what most of the world sees is a facade.  Professionally, I am known as a "fixer" because I can come in and fix pretty much any problem (of course I can, if I can manage the wreckage of my own life, I can certainly fix simple work problems - one of the "gifts" of CPTSD).  I project a strong, assertive, confident picture of someone that doesn't need help (because I learned that was the easiest way to "just" be ignored at home, instead of being vilified, mocked and ridiculed).  This facade isn't allowed to have strong feelings (I vividly remember in 5th grade telling a classmate that I wanted to be like Mr. Spock because he didn't have to deal with feelings - what prompted that pronouncement, however, is lost to time), so I'm also known as level headed and dispassionately able to manage these crises.

Inside me is a seething, roiling, boiling cauldron of pain, shame, hate, rage, guilt, disgust that I can normally keep locked away, but when it does spill over, it overwhelms me until I'm left pretty much in a fetal position.  I also have inside me a deeply sensitive, artistic spirit that cries at pretty much every sappy movie (though I've long since learned how to cry without water).  This inside me is the me that is afraid, week, sad, but also creative and passionate (though I don't have the confidence to be creative and passionate or to even have preferences - I even have solid color wallpapers on my computer because I'm afraid of what others will say about whatever choice I have made when I project my screen, so it's easier to just be "blank" externally).  This inside-me-me is what I suppose is my inner child, whom I have named Dante.  Dante remembers what I have forgotten, which is much.

My question.  Does anyone else have this dual nature, an external "acceptable" persona and a deeply wounded internal persona?  What I want more than anything else is to reintegrate myself.  There are good things about my "acceptable" persona - a strength and resilience.  But I am exhausted with the yo-yo back and forth, and I'm ready to let go of the dark places that I go when I'm in full-Dante mode.  I've never shared this awareness with another soul, even therapists, for fear of yet more judgement. 

I'd appreciate any thoughts on this.

BeeKeeper

Dante,

Hello! Thank you for posting your thoughts and experience so well.

This description  puts an arrow right through my heart. Yes, yes, yes. I know exactly what you are talking about. And I too shared the desire for no emotion, I wished I could be a rock on a beach. And wasn't able to speak for 3 days. Spock is still my favorite, not only for the emotionless experience, but for the way he was able to speak "truth" without offense, because clearly no one could argue with dispassionate observations.

Your question is *Does anyone else have this dual external acceptable persona and a deeply wounded internal persona?* Heck yeah! I can say that from the years I've spend here, this is the main focus of my life, comprehending  and reintegration. Yes, there can be more than a dual persona, and this is what some professionals and academics call "parts." This is more fully explained by Internal Family Systems by Richard Schwartz.

It's common for everyone who has experienced ongoing relational trauma to separate their "selves" into acceptable, competent, together facades. Inside is a different story as you describe. Then it's a process of bouncing back and forth between outside and inside.

I'm glad you've accepted and named your inner child Dante. It tells me you have embraced those feelings and are not afraid. I agree, it is exhausting, and saps energy which might normally be used for enjoying life and bringing curiosity to everything.

You'll read more perspectives on this, and I hope you can fit all viewpoints into the puzzle. It's like a constant, daily, kaleidoscope, ever shifting and resettling.


Dante

Thank you Beekeeper!  I am not familiar with internal family systems - sounds like a really good place to start.  Thanks for sharing that, and for also validating my experience.  It's such a relief to know others have this experience.  The best way I can describe is that I feel like I am (or maybe Dante is) holding my breath as long as I can, until I just can't stand it anymore, and then Dante lashes out at me.  And understandably so.

I tried sharing a more sensitive, less confident version of my work and it didn't go well, which just reinforced the need to be strong and perfect.  I admittedly sort of just fell apart rather than sharing something more "normal", and I wound up burning some bridges and relationships in the process that will take time to repair.  I think the general perspective is I had sort of a nervous breakdown, but that would imply it wasn't something that happened every single day when I get home from work.  And it affected me physically in a different way than I'd experienced previously - I experienced it actually as a choking sensation like my throat was closed up or like I feel like when I'm choked up and want to cry.  Since I've started re-establishing the strong, confident persona, that choking sensation has diminished (though has not completely gone away).

I also tried going the other direction and completely obliterating my past (which I suppose meant erasing Dante).  I went so far as to destroy every piece of the past I could - all pictures, even burned my college degrees.  That's left a big hole in the past.

So the direct route of reintegration was an epic fail.  Time to try a new way, which is why I'm here trying to find a middle way.

BeeKeeper

Wow! You are now describing some experiences I also had. I burned a considerable amount of photographs,with the conviction I could erase  the past. Wrong! Sorry to learn your diploma was included.

I also want to say something about the throat symptoms. During a rough period in 2008-2009, when everything imploded, and I couldn't acknowledge why, I developed dysphagia. "Difficulty swallowing." I couldn't stand to have anything against my throat. Being a staunch turtleneck person, I had to discard my entire sweater, shirt wardrobe. It was winter too! I pursued medical evaluation which led nowhere and lived with it for years. Now, it's "over" symptomatically, but I attribute that to devoting myself 100% to recovery work for a decade +.

Burning bridges, and relationship repairs seem also to be part of the process, at least for me. I discovered during my stoic days of denial I was involved with other trauma impacted people which created a toxic dance. While there were some elements of some relationships which were irrevocably damaged, there were also little sparkling high points and good times. Also, when I allowed myself to rely on others, I discovered I surrounded myself with dependents who were unable to support me. We are all human, containing lots of parts and it's best to choose and balance who can give and who takes what. Life is up and down, so are people. Nobody "blooms" all the time.

It doesn't seem like there's any "direct route" to reintegration. All those platitudes of it being a process are true. You can't hurry or push yourself, as much as you'd like to. The inner you that feels is not a bad thing. That serves as a clue to your internal status, it's wise to pay attention to it. Even if you want to cry, rage or hide. If you can do so, outside of your external life. allow it. A lot of times the external self is pressed for time or space, but think of small ways to create that if you can. (sitting outside and listening to music, walking in a green leafy area)


Kizzie

Yes same for me Dante - strong outer personna with child and teen part of me leaking out from time to time. It makes sense really, strong us does not show any vulnerability that predatory people can pick up on and exploit. But we're not really living if we're only letting  certain parts of ourselves up to the surface.  As Bee suggests family systems theory has a lot of good explanations for this compartmentalization of our selves to keep them safe and strategies for integration. 

It sounds like strong willed young Dante is trying to tell you that suppressing or obliterating is not going to work.  You found this safe space which I think means you're hearing him.  Perhaps you can let him out here a bit, slowly so it's not overwhelming - small baby step risks until you get more comfortable.  Some people even post as their younger selves to help the process of surfacing and often members will post a response written to the younger/different part. Whatever helps you we're here  :grouphug:




Dante

#5
Thank you both.  I hate that you both had experiences similar enough to mine to be able to relate, but I'm grateful to have found a place where I can find start to figure out what to do with this mess. 

(Edited as the more I thought about it the more I thought it might be triggering.  I apologize if so).

bluepalm

Dante I relate strongly to what you describe - even your acknowledgement that strength is 'one of the "gifts" of CPTSD'.

I've long felt I survived and even flourished in very harsh working environments (large law firms) because I had no expectations of being safe, comfortable, included, acknowledged, respected, supported or happy in those surroundings. I felt I had been in a war zone in my FOO and marriage, and the law firm atmosphere was therefore familiar to me.  The work itself was hugely rewarding and enjoyable mind you.  It's just that the workplace, and interpersonal behaviour of the lawyers, was such that most 'normal' people were driven out of the organisation fairly quickly. So in a way I thanked my dysfunctional experiences for allowing me to earn a living. Many years after I started working as a lawyer, the partner with whom I first worked in one large law firm said something which validated my experiences: 'When you started with us it was sink or swim and we didn't help you but you swam'.

As to your description: 'Inside me is a seething, roiling, boiling cauldron of pain, shame, hate, rage, guilt, disgust that I can normally keep locked away, but when it does spill over, it overwhelms me until I'm left pretty much in a fetal position'. This feels so familiar to me - although after a lifetime of therapy and inner work I am now largely free of it. I posted a poem entitled 'Flitting shade-like, hugging the walls' in the poetry section of this forum some time ago, which I wrote many years ago while in the grip of such a cauldron of terrible feelings.

One experience in particular still feels fresh: after visiting a senior  judge in her office for a formal interview, and managing the interview well, I almost ran into a nearby park and then crouched down on the grass in a ball of wrenching despair, my insides twisting in disgust and shame, helpless to stop my sobbing. I didn't know what was wrong with me but I knew I was somehow terribly 'wrong', that I could never be like that woman - calm and comfortable and competent and 'at home' in the world. It was an unforgettable breakdown into raw self-loathing and profound despair.

May I encourage your acknowledgment of your creative impulses?  You identify your artistic side even as you say: 'though I don't have the confidence to be creative and passionate or to even have preferences'.  There was a time when, sitting on a bus, this description of myself came to me: I felt I was 'just a piece of paper being blown hither and thither through the world'. I had no substance. I had no basis on which to express preferences. I remember wondering, sitting on that bus, how people looked at an art work and had any way of assessing it. Well, it took years of inner work and therapeutic support, but now, and for the past 10 to 15 years of my life, I am free to express my creativity - I sing and paint and write poetry and prose and sew and crochet and have a strong set of values against which to assess people and art works and writings.  And through those things, through expressing myself in these ways, even though I do so privately, I have found profound healing. So please Dante follow your artistic instincts. One huge regret I've had is that I did not have the confidence to follow my creative instincts until very late in life. If I had followed them sooner, I'm sure I would have accessed my healing impulses sooner too. 

I hope it helps you to hear of my experiences. I know that the validation I've received through reading of other members' experiences on this Forum has been central to my feeling less alone in the world. There is nowhere else, except perhaps in a room with a therapist I trust, that I can speak of my experiences so openly.
bluepalm

Dante

Thank you, bluepalm.  I am sorry for your experiences, but grateful to you for sharing them.  It does help to know I'm not alone.  Trying to acknowledge my past and face down the sheer terror and horror at that acknowledgement is really hard - hard enough that I've put it off for over a year while mostly trying (and failing) to be in denial.

I am working on trying to be more open to creativity, but I've found at least so far that it increases my anxiety because I know that whatever I do will not be up to my impossibly high standards (which I now realize were imposed by my FOO).  But thank you for the encouragement.  Perhaps one day soon.

woodsgnome

Anytime I see references to acting a role rings a bell for me, as improv (unscripted but deep) acting was one aspect of a multifaceted career. Like other aspects, it was something I 'fell' into after I'd experienced lots of turmoil I feel fortunate to have survived.

What I didn't realize when this started, was that the 'acting' was opening up an inside part that I was unable to access in my FOO or schooling (religious) years for fear of retribution and harsh judgment for being 'different' -- which is how they tended to view any creative expressions beyond their limited range of expectations.

For me, growing into the acting roles revealed an inner side to me I didn't realize I had, but while it was cool to find, it was also a tad scary in one regard. I was so good it created expectations of me -- call it performance pressure or something like it. So I was still feeling judged. Not at all bad if you are a performer, until the hyper-vigilance wears you down and you still feel like you can't fully be yourself.

It's easy to wade into lots of nuance about this, so I'll cut some of the corners and just applaud  :applause: your own albeit slow discovery and self-allowance to steer you towards becoming who you feel you really are, and be willing to go with that inner directive. Doing that, in effect creating a new life for yourself, is the essence of 'creativity', I feel.

I hope that adds some perspective about finally finding ways to feel more comfortable about how you want to go forward with who you know yourself to be.  :hug:.

Dante

Thank you, woodsgnome.  I appreciate you sharing your perspective.  The expectations I've either inherited from others or imagined and placed on myself is a place that I'm trying to work through right now.  I think in time, it will be good to re-establish some expectations, but for now, I'm trying to practice just being gentle with myself.

Kizzie

QuoteInside me is a seething, roiling, boiling cauldron of pain, shame, hate, rage, guilt, disgust that I can normally keep locked away, but when it does spill over, it overwhelms me until I'm left pretty much in a fetal position.

I was just rereading  your thread Dante and flashed back to all the times before I knew I had CPTSD (before 2013) and didn't know what was happening.  I can remember getting home from working as a reserve military officer one day and sitting in the dark on the floor in the kitchen and crying and crying because of that cauldron. Competent officer during the day who fell apart alone in the evenings. This doesn't happen now thankfully because I know it's CPTSD.  I do trigger but I know what's going on and it makes a huge difference knowing I am not losing my mind.

It has taken time and therapy to reveal more of those parts of me I'd rather keep hidden. Something I've never written about really is that I even hold back here because I founded OOTS and am the Admin. It doesn't feel  quite right to show those vulnerable spots because I'm at the helm, I am supposed to be responsible.  What I will say is now that I am doing so more often I am becoming more comfortable with all my parts. Neither the forum nor I fall apart when I reveal more of myself, the things that I'd rather no-one see including myself because they don't mesh with the strong, adult me I want to be in place all the time.

A bit of a rambling post but hope some of it is helpful.

PS - When I was trying to connect with my child self I took an African drumming class and because it was cool she felt safe and had a lot of fun. That part of me has been pretty content and trusting ever since. My teen part on the other hand is still a work in progress  ;D


bluepalm

Dante, you say: "I am working on trying to be more open to creativity, but I've found at least so far that it increases my anxiety because I know that whatever I do will not be up to my impossibly high standards (which I now realize were imposed by my FOO).".

Please may I pass on a realisation I had which has freed my creative spirit. There is no way to make a 'mistake', or not live up to a 'standard', when putting marks down on paper or canvas with pencil, charcoal, paint or whatever.

Whatever marks you make are made by you for a reason - perhaps unconscious - and they are valid in themselves. No one is entitled to judge them.

I started off thinking I needed to depict the world accurately and, like you perhaps, beat myself up when my efforts 'failed'. I now understand that anything I put down is valid. Everything I paint is a release of energy by me. Perhaps the result is not pleasing to my eye and I may throw it away. But the process of putting those marks down was still valid and meaningful. The concept of 'intuitive drawing' helped me break through my resistance. Make a mark, then another one, just let your hand work randomly and see what happens.

One of the most expressive paintings I have done is a watercolour that I now value highly. It doesn't depict anything. But when I sat down and put paint on paper, when I let colours bleed into each other on the page, I was in such overwhelming emotional turmoil and despair that I felt I was 'bleeding out', that I was dying. And the paint helped me to express those feelings and, importantly, to deal with them, to lessen them, to transfer them to a creative work. In that way creating an art work can feel life saving in the moment.

I hope you will try it sooner rather than later.

Dante

Thank you bluepalm.  I tried two different "mediums" over the last 2 days, and beat my hands in frustration with both.  Tomorrow is a new day, but I appreciate very much your insight.  One of my forms of artistic expression is something I was classically trained in as a child, even studied in college for awhile before switching.  And it's been 30 years since then.  But I beat myself up that I can't pick right back up where I was.  The expectation's that I placed on myself provoked a panic attack.  I don't think I can do that for awhile.  So I tried something else, and gave up and played video games instead.  (Which was actually kind of fun, because I haven't played a video game in probably more like 40 years - I don't even normally have games installed on my computer or phone).  Baby steps.

Thank you Kizzie.  I understand completely holding it together and then completely falling apart.   A fair amount of my job (before Covid) involved travel for extended periods of time, and so I'd get up in the morning and "put myself back together" as I used to call it, then get through the day leading teams that others had failed to lead, then get back to the hotel and then find oblivion until I finally fell asleep from exhaustion.  Thankfully, those days are behind me (one good thing about Covid, though I'd made progress on that pattern even before that).  Like you said, I am now able to understand what's happening to me, though I'd be lying if I said I wasn't still on the floor in fetal position.  But at least in fetal position without oblivion (though with significant dissociation).

For what it's worth, one thing I will say is that I think the forum (as far as I can tell in the space of 3 days) succeeds because you and others are willing to share so much of yourselves.  If that helps you at all feel more confident about not having to bring the infallible leader here.  We all need a place to be fallible, and I for one am so grateful to have finally found it (and finally had the courage to reach out) here.

Kizzie

I had a thought as I was reading that might be helpful I don't know. The mask I wear isn't actually a mask per se, it's a big part of me I can count on, that is strong, organized, confident ...  Where I've had a problem is not acknowledging other 'lesser' parts to the surface, but they are a noisy group in there and never stopped trying to be acknowledged and embraced.  The only way I had too was to dissociate when my energy/ability to keep them stuffed down waned. 

I am trying to feel and integrate them so I can be more whole, not dominated by that one part which has gotten me through quite well admittedly, but at great cost in other ways.  It sounds like you're on a similar path; I hope as you post here you may feel less like you need to dissociate, curl into the fetal position, etc., and more like  letting some of those parts have a bit of time on the surface, some 'fresh air' as it were.

Dante

Thanks, Kizzie.  I think that's spot on.