trying not to use alcohol or drugs

[Papa Coco]

Hi Larry and Kizzie,

I like everything Kizzie says about the drinking being tied to trauma.  For a lot of us CPTSD survivors, AA isn't needed. BUT Just for a rounded view of all your options, I'll tell you about my experiences with AA and voluntary Rehab.

First, it's important to note that my Alcoholism was pretty minor compared with the typical AA members. For those who start drinking in childhood, the ONLY cure is daily AA meetings for life. It has to do with the biology of what they were addicted to when puberty sort of locked the brain into its baseline moods for life. But I didn't start drinking heavily until my late forties. So quitting was easier for me. However, quitting on my own wasn't working. Several attempts only made my addiction a little bit worse each time I started up again. In order to stop drinking once and for all, I decided to put myself into an outpatient rehab program: 3 hours a day for 5 weeks and I attended multiple different AA meetings for about a year.

My experience is that, for me, I needed a blend of my therapist's CPTSD help, AND outpatient rehab AND about a year's worth of AA. I'm not plugging AA here, I'm just sharing what my experience was like.

Outpatient Rehab

What Rehab gave me was solid, scientific information about how drinking was affecting my health, my life and my family:
For my first example, as a nightly drinker, my body was detoxifying my daily poison consumption by waking me up in a sweat and throbbing heartbeat between 2 and 3 AM every morning. That's when the body is in its deepest sleep, and it's when the liver is working its hardest to detoxify what was put in it the day before. Also, My Acid Reflux was tied to my drinking. I learned that if I quit drinking, I would sleep through the 2-3 am detox cycle AND would gain significant help with my acid reflux. It turned out to be true on both counts. Since 2014 when I quit drinking, I now sleep through the night AND don't have to take any acid reflux medications anymore.

My second example is what I learned about drinking and sociopathy. I learned that alcohol changes a person by kind of turning us into part-time sociopaths. I was starting to reschedule my life events around the drinking. I wouldn't let anyone come visit me after 5 pm, because I didn't want anyone cutting in to my drinking time. Many of my rehab peers told me that they even remembered the day that the drinking caused them to stop caring about other people. They said the empathy turned off as if by a switch. It fascinated me: they remember the day empathy turned off in their heads! But those same peers also remember the very moment when, during sobriety, they suddenly started caring about other people again. They remember the day the switch was turned back on! This blows my mind!!!! It also led me to my own personal theory that some people are born sociopaths, while others become sociopaths due to addiction, brain trauma, or military training. The bad news for born sociopaths, or those who've had irreparable brain accidents, is that they can't be cured. The good news for addiction and military trained sociopaths is that once the war is over, or the addiction is controlled, the sociopathy is cured. Kids who are trained to kill in battle stop killing when the war ends. Alcoholics who've learned to put booze ahead of family and friends, regain their empathy for others as soon as the booze is gone from their lives.

That was some of what I learned in Rehab that really helped me intellectualize the positive reasons to quit drinking.  Now for what I learned in AA.

AA
What AA gave me was the same thing this forum is giving me. Anonymous Friendship with kindred souls. It allowed me to go to a place that was filled with people who understand the urge to drink so I could just BE with them, and we could share our tips, compassion, and successes with each other. Sometimes just knowing I'm in a room with people who understand is all it takes to give me strength.

To really grasp the value of AA, try to find a way to watch the movie "Bill W". It's the story of how AA got started. It's a really, really supportive movie.

AA gave me the same thing I get from this forum for my CPTSD. Here on this site, I don't have to explain myself to you all about what it feels like to struggle with CPTSD. I can get suggestions for help from people who are just like me. In AA meetings I didn't have to explain myself to other drinkers about how hard it was for me to stay away from the booze. And I got suggestions for how to make my sobriety work no matter how I was feeling.

When I talked with family and friends who were not in AA about my drinking, they kind of judged me and either told me I should just magically stop drinking, OR WORSE, they'd tell me I didn't have a problem, so I should just keep enjoying the alcohol. I learned it was not good to get support from people who haven't walked their mile in my shoes.

Like Kizzie says, AA is not for everyone. And the trauma therapy is the best way to regain control over our own lives. But for me, AA was one of the contributing factors that finally cleaned me up for good. There's strength in numbers. Being with others who struggle with the exact same struggle, gave me strength.

I visited several different AA groups. Some were better than others. There were a LOT of compassionate people in most of those meetings. Very supportive.

I called AA my church.  It was where I went to be in company with other "sinners" who didn't judge me, because I wasn't different than they were. It gave me the place to air my fears and frustrations and successes and joys around sobriety with others who understood and supported. It gave me strength to go out into the world and make my sobriety work.

Because I was a milder alcoholic, and because I had such fantastic support with my therapist, I chose to NOT get an AA sponsor. It frustrated my rehab counselors because they know that most people who come through rehab are in much worse shape than I was, and the sponsor is pretty badly needed for most alcoholics. I held my ground, and didn't get a sponsor, but that's because I was doing fine with my therapist as a sponsor, and I was actively engaged in CPTSD therapy.

So I agree with Kizzie that the most important thing we can do is get help with our CPTSD. But if AA is available to you, it might not hurt to at least give a couple of different meetings a chance. Just see what they're like. It really is anonymous, so if you don't like it, they aren't going to call or hound you.

[Larry]

thank you papa coco !  I really need some kind of support group,  AA could be a good thing for me.  I also really need to find a therapist,  I think I am ready for that now.  I tried several years ago but i think it wasn't the right therapist for me.  I don't like feeling like i need therapy,  but let's face it,  i need it.   I really appreciate the time you spent helping me !

[Papa Coco]

I'm glad I was able to connect, Larry.  I see so much of my own path in yours, I really hope you can find the support you're looking for.

I may have told you this already, but over the course of 40 years I've seen 7 Therapists. The first one, in 1980, was a clinical talking text book who just looked for chances to throw one-liners at me, like "Oh! God doesn't make Junk!" My employer sent me to him after I had a meltdown in front of him at only 20 years old. After that first therapist, I still didn't feel any different, so I started trying out different practitioners. Some sat there and made me do all the talking. They wouldn't respond at all. For a man who was ostracized or ignored by family and friends any time I said the wrong thing, NOT RESPONDING to my words was a dangerous trigger, NOT a cure. Some therapists are Narcissistic. They take that job so they can tell other people how to live their lives. My last guy, who I stuck with for 18 years, was a "Behavior Modification Cognitive Therapist" with a narcissistic tendency to always prove to me HE was right and I was wrong. I stayed with him because I thought he was what I needed. I thought that because he was just like my family. LIke my family, he was just narcissistic enough to constantly make me believe my trigger responses were my own fault. In 1999, I'd taken all from him that I could take and I found the Therapist I have now. It took my current T over two years just to make me realize I could trust him in ways I had never trusted anyone at all. I've seen him every other Tuesday since 1999. The relationship has been slow and steady and I dare say now that I love him more than I ever loved my own brother or my own dad. That brotherly love we share during session has been just what I've needed all along. (Another note: I believe "love" is a synonym for "connection."  I know I love someone, either family, friend or pet, when I know I'll feel a hole would be torn in my heart if I ever lose them. So when I say I feel love for my T, I'm refering to a soul-to-soul connection built on mutual trust and respect that will hurt my heart if it's ever broken).

So, for addiction and drinking, I believe a person should never quit quitting. Most of us quit smoking or drinking after several honest tries. But it eventually takes. And for finding a good therapist, I follow the same rule: Give each one a chance, but if the shoe doesn't fit, don't force it. Find another one! For me # 7 is the charm. But today it should be easier than it was for me, because during my long search, Complex PTSD didn't exist, so no one really knew what was wrong with me. I would like to believe that today, the ability to find a C-PTSD-savy therapist is hopefully MUCH easier than it was for me in the 1970s, 80s and 90s. More of them know what it is now!

Thank you for continuing to post in this forum. I do feel an empathetic desire to stay connected as each of us moves forward each day with where we are all at in our healing journeys.  Like I always say, I'm pulling for you!!!!

[Dante]

I agree with everything Papa Coco has said.  For many people, AA works.  For me it didn't.  But my point wasn't about AA at all, it was about how the journey I've taken has been circuitous, but I'm acknowledging I've never (and still haven't) given up - and that for you, Larry, some self-care acknowledging the same for yourself might be healing.

Definitely don't disregard AA on account of my account.  I haven't had a good experience with therapists, either, and I'm also not saying anyone should disregard therapists.  (And I have a lot of things that I have experienced, that I wouldn't recommend either, so there).   

[Larry]

thank you armee,  i  attended a wine event tonight at the local theater,  drank a lot of wine,  i feel like i don;t need o drink,  it just makes me feel better.  sometimes i really want to get a dui,  as bad as that me seem.    i am really conused right now. 

[Armee]

It's such a crappy feeling to be confused and have conflicting feelings...like wanting to get a DUI but probably not wanting to risk hurting someone, feeling like you don't need to drink but needing to drink to feel better. I get the same way, not about alcohol but other things especially intrusive thoughts about myself.

What I feel you suffering with under it all is wanting to feel better but not knowing how. I think you also want to feel ashamed and not feel ashamed. Just keep writing about it here. It's safe.

[Larry]

you are so right Armee, how do i feel better?  i really do not know where to begin.  i obviosly use alcohol to escape and cope.  i really don't know of another substitute,  other than cocaine,  but cocaine doesn't help me forget.  i don't want to use drugs or alcohol,  but both have been a huge part of my coping for a long time.  i really need therapy,  i don't know what else to try.   i don't want to become a drunk drug addict. 

[Armee]

It's a real sad thing because I've seen that one of the biggest factors is being able to love yourself and that is so so hard to do for us.

Take the first step and start calling therapists. Kizzie has a resource for help finding a therapist but of course it isn't easy so expect this to be a big significant step to be proud of even starting to look. https://www.outofthestorm.website/treatment/

I don't want you to become a drunk drug addict either. You've got better things ahead of you than that. Plus my dad was a drunk drug addict and a real ****head. I would hate to have to lump you in there with him.  😁

Get some sleep, check in with yourself next time you are able to catch yourself reaching for a drink, call 2 therapists tomorrow and leave a message. Finally, be kind to yourself. You've been through a lot and deserve some empathy. 

[Larry]

thank you Armee

[Kizzie]

Apologies Larry (and everyone), I don't want to throw anyone off AA.  I just had a similar reaction to the program as Dante did. The approach simply did not feel right/good for me and I also had an issue with the concept of a Higher Power.

As Papa Coco has said, many people do find it helpful.  There is a certain magical effect in kinship and shared experience when you're struggling with addiction or CPTSD or anything for that matter, so definitely give it a try and see if it's a fit for you. 

When you're feeling better you might want to check out a book by Gabor Mate called "In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts" which is about taking responsibility but with compassionate understanding of the connection to trauma. Mate is a Canadian physician who is a recovering alcoholic himself and has worked with addicts for decades.

[Larry]

thank you Kizzie,  i will try to find that book.  Today has been good,  i really want to try to have a few good days in a row.  fingers crossed for tomorrow!

[Armee]

Congrats on a gew good days!!! 

You're doing great taking care of yourself and valuing yourself enough to want to recover.

Keep it up and know that CPTSD recovery for me is often 3 steps forward 5 falls back and then 5 steps forward type of pattern.

[Larry]

thank you armee,  i really wih i would have tried harder to recover several years ago,  i did'nt really know how messed up i am.  i guess i thought i was almost normal, like everybody must feel like i was feeling.  I know better now.  i have been reading a lot and trying to understand,  and maybe learn how to heal,  almost seems impossible,  but all i can do is try.

[Dante]

I feel the same way.  I thought I was almost normal too, I didn't realize how far to starboard I was listing.  I try hard not to be at myself up for not trying yesterday because I can't fix yesterday, I can only focus on today.  I had about 10 days of success a few weeks back and fell down again, but managed to pull myself up by my bootstraps again and got through a good day yesterday.  The one thing about 12 steps that I did like was the "one day at a time".  I live in regrets of the past and fears of the future but never today. 

If you're still trying, you're still alive, and that's all that matters.  Keep it up!

[Armee]

I definitely thought I was normal and nothing was wrong until I started therapy to figure out how to set boundaries with my  mom without destroying myself. Slowly I thawed enough that I could see things were really not ok with me and then I fought that and hated on myself for not being ok. Now I'm closer to acceptance that stuff happened, that I am like this (traumatized), and that fixing it isn't simply a matter of hard work and wishing it so. And now I'm struggling to accept that it isn't easy and takes a lot of different tools and a long time. But there's been really significant incremental progress the whole time I've been in therapy. It's just that the finish line looks deceptively close but as I inch along the course it keeps appearing further away. But I've covered the miles.

Accepting things aren't ok and seeing things as they are is such an important milestone, Larry.