Treating dissociative amnesia

[Armee]

I'm not sure if I have dissociative amnesia or if I just dissociated so much as a kid to tune things out that memories did not get laid down, or if it's simply because I have aphantasia (lack of visualization and other imagined senses like sounds and smells) which can be associated with sparse autobiographical memories.

But I'm wondering if anyone on here has experience with treating amnesia and recovering memories. I'm starting EMDR therapy with the hope it will help with memory and visualization but I also read a few things that made me fear EMDR might actually be too effective and will lessen the vividness of my already lacking memories and make the amnesia worse.

I find it helpful to know what happened and to be able to connect reactions to an event. Has anyone had success treating amnesia? Has anyone tried hypnosis? What were your experiences with EMDR? Anyone have thoughts on the benefit or forgetting vs remembering and processing?

[woodsgnome]

This is a tricky subject, one on which I hesitate to respond but still feel drawn to at least lay down where I went with it. Not 'cured' by a long shot (that might be too much to ask for), but I feel more tolerant of enduring the occasional problematic scenarios around dissociation.

While I've always noticed a few memory gaps, it wasn't until I was in a therapy session one day that I specifically identified to the T what was happening. I did so in a 'feel-bad' sense, but she immediately countered by assuring me that dissociation was wholly natural for someone with multiple traumas. As far as she was concerned, the best sign was that I noticed this myself. Typically I'd have memories up to a certain point, then a foggy feeling would settle in. I might just be briefly taken aback  or feel like my brain was entering fade-out mode  . It's like this curtain came over me, seeming like a warning signal -- stop! danger ahead!.

Once I felt oddly dysfunctional not coming up with specific memories beyond the curtain/blockage point. My T had discussed trying emdr, but I also had some hesitation based on what I'd read on here and elsewhere where cptsd issues were discussed. I feared what might be hidden in those memories more than the actual lack of a detailed recall. What I did recall, even if not in every detail, was usually bad enough.

My T, being very client-centered, understood my hesitancy and so we never tried emdr beyond a small experiment with it once. This was some years back now, and what we've been doing in the meantime has been going well, except for occasional lapses common to Cptsd.

I'm reluctant to have you consider that in a negative light, as your situation and outlook might not resemble exactly how  this has gone for me. It's just that 1) with the T's encouraging manner, I realized it's okay to be dissociative sometimes; and 2) there are options, but the most important seems to involve self-realization -- that I know it's happening. In general, I still recall enough of the outer details of a certain scenario to at least know (and cringe at) the basics of the original incident.

Besides, it's not important to recall every detail beyond knowing that the damage happened. I have only one huge swath of memory loss, all things considered. On reflection, I rather hope never to remember what appears to have happened in that large gap. I know the awful outcome better, and that's the areas -- the 'nowadays' moments -- I work with.

Please don'g take this as a negative on emdr -- I still regard it as an interesting option that I didn't choose for a variety of reasons, albeit based on extreme fear of knowing more details than I already had to endure. As mentioned, your circumstances and your T may be entirely different from how this played out for me. I just hope it was okay to share my perspective; all it is, just me, at this moment.

[Papa Coco]

Hi Armee

Woodsgnome brings up some very good points. For one, this is a tricky subject. Also, the fact that we are all struggling with similar issues, but we are all individuals with different stories. So, what I'm going to tell you is just what I myself experienced with EMDR and amnesia. If I'm off-base, I apologize. I don't usually give advice, but I do feely share my own experiences in case others see similarities that can help them.

I've spent decades trying to remember the details that would support my flashbacks of abuse at seven years of age. It was so frustrating to have these missing gaps in my own memory. I've always felt like if knowledge is power, then the lack of knowledge must be the lack of power. Right? I felt like if I couldn't remember the details then my pain couldn't stop, and I couldn't validate the inner child who still wanted a rescue. I believed I couldn't put any of it behind me until I knew the details of all of it. Names. Dates. Exactly what really happened. And WHY it happened. I believed my peace depended on remembering what my own brain was intentionally hiding from me. I'm human. Humans like answers. Mysteries scare us. How do we protect ourselves from harm if we don't know what's lurking in the shadows?

In 2001 or so my therapist did some simple Eye Movement therapy with me, but only to help me get through the chronic panic attacks I used to have. We weren't focused on finding memories, just blending my fragmented brain back together so I could begin to function under stress. During dissociation, he'd have me follow his thumb with my eyes. Left, right, up, down. I'd talk through my flashbacks and what I was feeling in my body. He was there in the room, ready to stop or rescue me if I started to panic. He made sure it was a very safe exercise. During dissociation, most of my brain would shut down. Only the terrified, traumatized part was active. Eye Movement turned the rest of the brain back on during the stress, so all parts of my fragmented brain could work together again in teamwork to help the traumatized compartment deal with that stress. It helped. We only did it a few times, but now, 20 years later, I have a lot more control over my trigger responses than before the Eye Movement exercises.

As for the flashbacks, for me, it didn't reduce any memory intensity, but it did significantly reduce the terror and the trauma responses that I used to feel whenever the incomplete memories would "visit" me.

I used to wonder if the abuse was even real. Only ONE part of my brain said it was real, but the rest of the brain had no evidence. Just these STUPID flashbacks, the terror, and the severe dissociative responses. But through those few sessions of following his thumb with my eyes, and the subsequent 20 years of follow-on talk therapy, I now have full acceptance throughout my entire brain that the abuse DID happen for real, and that it's safely in the past now. Details don't matter to me much anymore. I'm at peace with the fact that the abuse happened and that it's a memory now. It's no longer a threat. I no longer let my older self discredit my younger self by wondering if my younger self is telling the truth about what happened. I now accept my younger self unconditionally. He says I was abused. The abuse was bad. And I now trust and love him unconditionally.

Today, more relaxed around my fragmented memories, details I used to try to force out are starting to leak slowly out on their own. I emphasize slowly. But it's happening! Yessss!!!! I'm giving my brain the gift of accepting whatever it wants to tell me, and now I'm surer than ever that I know exactly who molested me, and how many times, and I even remember some of the threats made to keep me quiet. I'm not actively playing a stressful game of hide-and-seek in my brain anymore by trying to force out details that my own brain is intentionally hiding from me. My brain is protecting me. I now respect that more fully.

For me, it helps that all the abusers are dead, and I've walked away from my unsupportive, cruel family who put me into his hands and didn't rescue me. So I no longer feel any threat of retaliation or of being called a liar by my own family. This helps the memories relax a bit more. They can safely leak out into my conscious mind now without having to deal with the stress of being attacked or called a liar.

Another thought: Human memories can be unreliable in even the healthiest of lives.
The more I used to try to investigate the details from decades past, the more confused I got. For me, my research was adding more possibilities to what may have really happened. As a child, I didn't understand what was happening, so any memories I may have filed away were based on that child's confused understanding of something too weird to grasp. Like a computer, whatever's filed in the brain's memory bank is filed how it's filed on the day it's filed. If the child thought he/she saw a monster, then the monster is how it will be remembered for all time. For me, the details became moot after I finally started to feel peace around the fact that what was done to me long ago was real—details or no.

A final thought: Do I really want complete healing?
For all my life, I've been seeking a healing that I'm afraid to fully accept. What if I heal so completely that I no longer feel the pain I'm so used to feeling? If I lose my connection to my abused inner child, does that mean he dies? Do I completely fall apart? For decades I have identified myself as an abuse victim. If I'm healed, do I lose my identity? Today, at 61, I realize that I feel like I tend to hold on to my identity as an abuse victim because it's all I know and I'm afraid of letting it go--even if I should let it go. My PTSD came into the world because I felt like I wasn't heard or protected. If I'm cured, do I lose my chance to finally be heard and protected one day?

Traumatic amnesia is a pain killer. That's it's function. To my brain, if I lose my pain killer...what then?

I'm very okay now accepting the slower pace of healing little by little. I can accept new thoughts and feelings (and memories) if I can accept them one at a time, and ease into a great, wonderful life one step at a time. As I relax, details start to appear out of nowhere. It's slow. But it's easy to accept. It's healthier for me this way.

I may have missed the mark on your question, and if so, I apologize for going down the wrong rabbit hole. But either way, I hope all of us who give feedback are helpful to you in some way. No matter what you decide to do, I sincerely hope you find a sense of the peace you're looking for. That peace really is all that matters to me anymore.

[Armee]

Thank you so much Papa Coco and Woodsgnome for sharing your experience and perspective.  Please keep it all coming. Even if different from my own individual circumstances this thread is for anyone who might come with a similar question.

For me, my body reacts to things without me having any conscious awareness that I am triggered by something or feeling any emotion about it, and having something to attach that to, to name what's happening seems to help. But I think my dissociation is more severe but not so much a sign of interolerable memories as a side effect of being raised by a single parent with very severe mental illness....like that tendency was passed on to me. So I'm a bit less afraid that very bad things are lurking out of awareness. But my brain is very I guess compartmentalized with my reactions and unawareness of my reactions. And it bugs me. As soon as I understand what's happening it cuts down on the reaction.

[BeeKeeper]

11 years into recovery, I agree.  EMDR has been limited to my sister-in-law's second hand perceptions, who has cPTSD. It was disorienting for her and she advised me against it.  We  had similar experiences in childhood, so I took that as a legitimate "warning" for me.

Papa Coco notes: two things which ARE true for me, and I can't emphasize this enough, TRUE, TRUE, TRUE! Thank  you Papa Coco!

details I used to try to force out are starting to leak slowly out on their own. I emphasize slowly.

I finally started to feel peace around the fact that what was done to me long ago was real—details or no.

I'm italicizing the key concepts as it applies to myself. When you're brain is ready, it will leak. Awake, asleep, in good times and in bad. You can't force it. Your brain may say "this far, and no farther." Or it may decide the mechanisms you've put in place will take you where you need to go. Awareness is all well and good, but your brain decides for you.

[Papa Coco]

Hey Armee,

Have you read Pete Walker's book yet?  Having been raised by someone with severe mental illness has effected you, no doubt. Pete's book is very insigtful on just how the childhood dysfunctions became the roots of your adulthood triggers, reactions and amnesia. The book comes up a lot in these posts: Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving, by Pete Walker. You can ignore this post if you have already read it, but in case you haven't, you might grab a copy. Mine is almost totally yellow from me highlighting everything that helped me. Ha ha!

[Armee]

So much wisdom here and I know the three of you are right. In due time, on it's own pace is when things will happen...I'm too impatient. I want to fix myself, put on a pretty bow, stamp it complete and waltz away.

Papa Coco,

I actually have not yet read that book. I will, now. I'm very happy you have joined this forum. You have such an eloquent way of describing both symptoms and recovery. I'm grateful for all of you.

[Kizzie]

Really great thread all!  Just wanted to add Armee that I had both negative and positive experiences with EMDR and the difference between the two was:

1) how ready I was to look at my trauma and initially I wasn't, and

2) how well the T prepared me for it - first one not at all and I had 2 major EFs, second did a much better job and it really helped. 

What has helped me to become aware of what triggers me is somatic therapy which focuses on what the body is feeling and helps me to pay attention to what it is telling me. It does seem to help me not dissociate as much, but I should note we've taken this in small steps. It's like dipping my toe in my trauma a bit at a time and then taking it out if/when it starts to become too much. I can feel that in my body now thru increasing anxiety/distress or getting sleepy.  Then I step away and find something grounding, distracting and/or comforting before I am overwhelmed.

I keep my toe in longer than I used to I must say and seem to be able to stay in my window of tolerance more often.  Key for me is being more aware of what my body is telling me so I have more control over how much I look at at any given time. I'm also finding that when I am triggered I am able to come out of it more quickly and in a more regulated way. It feels like a degree of integration I didn't have before, I think  because of more of my brain (EMDR) and body (somatic therapy) are working together which is the opposite to dissociation when I think about. 

I don't know if this helps with your questions but wanted to share my experiences in case something resonates.   

[Papa Coco]

I completely resonate with everything Kizzie said in this last post. And I learned something that I didn't know I already knew. LOL. For me, I never knew the names of the techniques my T has been using on me for the past 20 years. I just thought he was a very gifted T who just knew how to help me calm down and reconnect. Turns out, he's been doing Somatic Therapy on me for years. I just didn't know what it was called.

At first, 20 years ago, when he would easily witness me dissociate, he'd move closer to me and try to make eye contact. My eyes would go blank, and my face would pale. I'd become less animated and more confused. He would ask me what I was feeling. At first I would answer the way we all tend to answer. I'd say "I'm feeling afraid" or "I'm feeling confused."  He'd ask how I knew I was afraid. I'd get a little angry. "I don't know...I'm just afraid!" Crimeny! Doesn't he know what afraid feels like?

But then he'd calmly ask, "Where do you feel afraid in your body?"

"Huh???"

"In your body. Where do you feel fear, and what does fear feel like? Is it hot? cold? Is it up in your head?  Your neck? Your chest? Are you shivering? Do you feel pain somewhere? Is it a sharp pain? A dull ache? Do you itch?" It took me a lot of visits to really grasp that when he asked me what I was feeling, he meant literally, exactly what physical sensation was I feeling and in which parts of my body.

At first I didn't understand the value of this. But I now know that we were going through a slow and gentle, progressive strengthening of the connection between my traumatized brain with my body. As of today (Thanks to Kizzie) I now know it's called Somatic Therapy. I now fully understand that it works very well. As humans we are body and brain. Sometimes the brain tells the body what to do, while other times the body controls the brain. This new connection started to make me feel whole again. Grounded. Now, when I start to shiver in my chest (in a hot room), I don't ignore it. I know it's my body telling me I'm entering a trauma response, so I quickly go to my breathing exercises, and I imagine my T sitting in a room with me making eye contact and smiling, telling me it's okay to feel this.

My T is a particularly kind man. He offers to let me call him between visits if I need grounding. But I choose not to bother him. I'm a fawn type and still living in the training my former therapist, who was nothing more than just a Cognitive Behavior Modification Therapist with a narcissistic need to be the boss all the time. He would say "I WORK FOR MONEY" if I tried to talk with him one second past the end of any session. He taught me to avoid calling for help between visits. So I still avoid calling my current T also.

The EMDR was done just a few times, 20 years ago, just to get me started. He didn't use it to try and help me remember, but to help me open up the closed off parts of my current brain to help calm the traumatized child brain still panicking deep inside me. The Somatic Therapy has probably been the most important treatment of all for me.  It's gentle, slow and steady, and as my T does it with me, I'm getting better and better at driving my own life with what he's taught me.

[Blueberry]

But then he'd calmly ask, "Where do you feel afraid in your body?"

"Huh???"

"In your body. Where do you feel fear, and what does fear feel like? Is it hot? cold? Is it up in your head?  Your neck? Your chest? Are you shivering? Do you feel pain somewhere? Is it a sharp pain? A dull ache? Do you itch?" It took me a lot of visits to really grasp that when he asked me what I was feeling, he meant literally, exactly what physical sensation was I feeling and in which parts of my body.

At first I didn't understand the value of this. But I now know that we were going through a slow and gentle, progressive strengthening of the connection between my traumatized brain with my body.

This is how my T worked with me for a long, long time too. Now thanks to you, I know it's Somatic Therapy. 

[Blueberry]

I find it helpful to know what happened and to be able to connect reactions to an event. Has anyone had success treating amnesia? Has anyone tried hypnosis? What were your experiences with EMDR? Anyone have thoughts on the benefit or forgetting vs remembering and processing?

Over time in therapy/healing memories have been coming back. Memories that I didn't even know were lost. Because I didn't forget the basics of emotional abuse and neglect or the CPA or CSA.

Also there was a time when I forgot tons of basic, general knowledge. It was simply gone, I think because my energy was all going towards healing at that time. I suppose that's a form of amnesia? A lot of this general knowledge came back bit by bit.

Some things come up  - sometimes these are realisations of connections - and disappear again before I can write them down and/or process them in any way. I know by now that they will either come up again when I'm ready or they will be processed unconsciously. Either way I don't have control over it. So I suppose my brain takes over the decision to remember or forget and I don't have to weigh up benefits.

My T vetoed EMDR in my case so I can't say anything to your questions there, Armee.

[Armee]

Kizzie, and additional commentary by Blueberry and Papa Coco kind of got to the heart of the matter for me. It isn't that I need to remember every detail it's that I'm looking for that integration. between body and mind.

I agree that somatic therapy has been hands down the single most important component of therapy for me.

Notice what you're doing with your hands. What are you feeling right now in your body? Notice what's happening now. Notice how you've gotten really quiet. You look lost. 

That has been the backbone of getting dissociation under control.

And yet my memories are almost nothing and it disturbs me when my body and mind don't align. I'm reacting, without knowing why I'm reacting. When I have been able to make a connection between the reaction and why specifically it is happening I feel more at ease.

[Blueberry]

And yet my memories are almost nothing and it disturbs me when my body and mind don't align. I'm reacting, without knowing why I'm reacting. When I have been able to make a connection between the reaction and why specifically it is happening I feel more at ease.

I can understand your feeling more at ease about it, though that's not quite my reaction unfortunately. What I term "realisations" means being able to make this connection. Realisations often send me for a total loop, straight into an EF I suppose. If that doesn't happen or after I come out of the EF having made the connection I am better at accepting and not condemning the fact that I can't do x,y,z without dissociating, going into an EF etc. 

I know this is hard, but from my experience you will understand why you are reacting you are when the why won't bowl you over. 

[Kizzie]

And yet my memories are almost nothing and it disturbs me when my body and mind don't align. I'm reacting, without knowing why I'm reacting. When I have been able to make a connection between the reaction and why specifically it is happening I feel more at ease.

Just a thought Armee, but not all of our trauma memories are necessarily discrete, clear incidents of being abused.  For example, my M is a covert N and it has taken me decades to figure out how I was traumatized exactly.  I just had this stored pool of felt trauma I couldn't put words to. It was a big part of the reason I didn't get help in treatment earlier, I didn't have any words to describe the type of emotional abuse I suffered (N abuse). 

Once I figured out her N behaviours (through our sister site Out of the the Fog),  that was when I really understood what happened to me. I didn't have those clear, discreet memories other survivors have, but my body stored all the covert abuse  (sometimes referred to as stealth narcissism), layers and layers of it.  It's just as damaging as overt abuse/neglect, moreso perhaps because it takes a bit longer to untangle it all. 

Nowadays when I do feel a tightness in my chest or stomach or other body reactions I know it relates to trauma even if I can't figure it out at the exact moment.  It's reassuring to think "Well something has triggered me because my body is reacting, I just need to figure it out."

Again, don't know if this helps but thought I'd post in case it resonates.

[Papa Coco]

Hi Kizzie,

Your post definitely resonates with me. My M wasn't N, but she had the personality of a selfish "thirteen-year-old" with powerful jealousy issues her whole life. My D was a WWII veteran with a missing arm and a lot of PTSD he never got treated for, and one of my older sisters was either a N or a Borderline Personality Disorder BPD (Almost the same thing as Narcisism).

Like with you, I don't have any one specific memory, event or action to tie my vast array of triggers to. For me, I had to spend the first few years in therapy being convinced that my childhood was as confusing as it was. I constantly gave my parents the benefit of the doubt, and the respect of believing they were perfect and I was the broken little crazy boy who took all the blame for all my confusion. (NOTE: I believe that fear of an authority figure often disguises itself as honor. Some of us honor our parents (or tormentors) when deep down, it's because we're terrified of them--and honoring them is safer than being accused of hurting them). It wasn't until my T was finally able to help me see how toxic my relationship with a childish M, a war-torn D and a N older sister really was. 

I guess this is why it's called Complex-PTSD  Our memories are convoluted-and-complex, our triggers are many-and-mysterious, and our reactions are too complex to get a grip on without proper assistance.  For someone like myself, taking a more global look at the whole childhood as the trauma is more helpful than trying to seek out specific, isolated memories.

And yeah: It took me a VERY LONG TIME to come to this realization. For too many years I was looking for isolated details when the whole picture was the real problem.