Psychological Reactions to Medications/Substances - Part 1

[dollyvee]

Cortisol is what is released in the body when there is a stress response, so chronic stress over time can also lead to adrenal fatigue, cortisol issues etc. Because all hormones are connected, an imbalance in one causes an imbalance in another ie estrogen dominance can lead to high/low cortisol etc and vice versa. It's not an easy fix of just adjusting cortisol etc but adaptogens can be helpful. Although, not if you have low cortisol. I would try electrolytes (potassium, magnesium) to help support the adrenals.

For a long time I thought I had an issue with cortisol because of the trauma but am learning that perhaps the trauma (and high cortisol /stress) led to changes in gut health which then creates systemic inflammation in the body and higher cortisol. This also led to food allergies and intolerances that then reinforce the inflammation. Lower circulating levels of nutrients such as zinc can also affect reactions to inflammation/cortisol. Because I had gut and therefore absorption issues for so long, I had really low levels of everything but especially zinc and magnesium which are important for stress management.

I wish the doctors were responsive to this too but it's not really in their wheelhouse as I found so had to do a lot of research. I am lucky to be able to do private testing through a fmp which I definitely recommend as they're much more up on these things. It's not cheap but i don't think I would have gotten any answers/help just staying with regular docs. TCM docs were also really helpful.

https://journals.lww.com/nursingmadeincrediblyeasy/fulltext/2021/01000/mental_status_changes_with_corticosteroid_therapy.11.aspx

[Kizzie]

Excellent, validating article Dolly, tks!  I am off to my GP shortly so will be taking the article and talking with her about this.  I will see the surgeon on the 28th so want to go to that appt as prepared as I can be. 

[dollyvee]

Good luck! You could ask them to test your hormones and see if anything turns up. If they say your results are "normal" at least you'll have your levels if you want do some more research.

This is also interesting if anyone wants to have a read:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5736941/

[dollyvee]

Hi Kizzie,

Have been doing some more reading on methylation and low folate levels and came across something perhaps. Your reaction to Ambien popped into my head when reading about overmethylation. Perhaps an adverse reaction is a sign of undermethylation.

"Sometimes diagnosis can be predicted based upon reaction to medications. Many overmethylated people will feel much worse taking an SSRI such as Paxil, Prozac, Welbutrin or other. These drugs tend to lower histamine further creating more of an imbalance. Overmethylated people often do better on benzodiazapenes such as Xanax and Ativan. I have had patients take both SSRIs and benzos and either do poorly or well on both."

https://askdrgil.com/need-know-using-methylated-folate/

Also, the pam medications you mentioned are benzodiazapenes, so might not work with low methylation?

It looks like coffee and pain medications (including opioids and antidepressants) are metabolized by the same cytochrome P450 enzymes. The paper below goes into genetic testing for specific enzymes (MTHFR, COMT, CYP) to see if there is lowered functioning leading to reactions on certain medications.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5743122/
https://mthfrsupport.com.au/2018/09/coffee-metabolism-and-your-genes/

I guess it's not so much about hormones but the methylation pathways that then influence the hormones. Who knows - ha! Anyways, please disregard if not helpful. Just trying to get a better understanding of this stuff myself.

dolly

[Kizzie]

Wow Dolly, this is awesome as always.  Tk you so much.   

I know something like this is going on with me so this kind of information validates and inspires me to keep going to find what I need to feel better. 

I just have to get my GP and her psychiatrist colleague onside to dig into this which feels a bit daunting at the moment. I have a second cataract surgery this coming week to get through so trying to stay grounded, calm and as stress free as possible but once that's over and done with I will pursue possibilities like this with her.   

[dollyvee]

I just think how long I've lived with this stuff going on and if it helps other people that's great.

Take care, it sounds like you have a lot going on right now. Operations are stressful.

It's interesting that it's for your eyes. I feel like I've come across a few different things that connect methylation to eyesight. I was reading about thiamine today (viral infections can deplete thiamine which helps regulate blood sugar and insulin levels) and it linked a deficiency to cataracts. Apparently, a lot of the b vitamins - B2, B9, B12 - involved in methylation are also very important to eyesight.

This has a blurb about thiamine and cataracts:
https://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/vitamins/thiamin

Hope it goes well 

[Kizzie]

  

[Kizzie]

Just a bit of an update.  I've been taking the new SSRI for just over a week now and so far my anxiety does seem to be getting better. So perhaps it actually was as the psychiatrist suggested, that the one I was on was having a paradoxical effect and causing more anxiety, sort of like "rebound congestion" when you use too much nasal decongestant and you end up causing more congestion.  I hope so. 

I'm still not on twitter, don't watch the news, am not reading any trauma books or posting/reading much here just to give myself as much calm as I can to help bring the anxiety down and keep it down. 

[Armee]

 

[dollyvee]

Hi Kizzie,

That's great that you've found some relief from the anxiety brought on by your SSRIs. Like you mentioned elsewhere it's hard to pinpoint where the anxiety comes from when we've been through a lot trauma-wise.  As I'm finding out, not all roads lead back to trauma even though it's really hard to discern what is what.

dolly

[Kizzie]

I do think that the main reason I have reactions to medications is because my system was so affected by the hormones/chemicals of trauma and fear.  I also think some of these things get worse with age as may have happened with my SSRI.  I've been on it for a long time and suddenly it starts causing anxiety rather than helping reduce it.   

As you say it's hard to discern what's what 

[dollyvee]

I think of it that our bodies are systems that are constantly in action and processing new things. For me, we were born with a predisposition to certain conditions and it's likely the high stress/trauma that started our bodies processing things in certain ways and developing subsequent conditions etc. I also think plastics, toxins, nutrition, medication etc play a part in how these systems then react too. So, are in an evolving feedback loop of cause and effect. The trauma likely initiated it but it takes on a life of its own as the body tries to rebalance itself. If we are needing more B6 for example because of stress, and we continue to experience that stress but are also not getting the B6 diet wise, or have the enzymes to activate it etc it's going to have a knock on effect on our bodies and how we feel as a result.

When I looked up the ventolin I was taking as a child it actually may have had an adverse reaction because it was shown to increase histamine, which meant more cytokines crossing the blood brain barrier and more anxiety. After reading stories of how much peoples' mood, personalities, outlooks changed after adjusting nutritional imbalances, it's hard not to consider this as a big factor in how I see trauma affecting me. It's thrown up a lot of questions - what I thought was "me" and that's how I acted/felt because of trauma maybe isn't so cut and dry 

[Kizzie]

I love that you're digging into all this Dolly, it's not for the faint of heart   

I wonder what will be common knowledge in 5, 10 or 20 years from now? I'd like to think readers will come across this thread and Sweet Sixty's thread years from now  and say, "Wow, these survivors understood how important it is to look at how trauma and other complex factors impact the body, not just the mind."   

[dollyvee]

Here's to hoping it turns the tide and ACEs, childhood trauma, and chronic stress and their relation to chronic health conditions are put on more peoples' and doctors' (!) radar so people don't feel the need to blame themselves for what they're feeling and experiencing.

[dollyvee]

I also forgot to write yesterday that part of me wonders about the book you mentioned before about the person in CBT for 20 years if maybe some component of what kept their trauma alive was physical in nature? That being said, I do think therapy is comforting and I can imagine not wanting to break that bond with someone after so long.