eye contact *possible trigger*

[1lovecoffee+stars74]

Hi this is my 3rd post tonight (it will be the last). I hope i am not flooding the board to much.

I am struggling with eye contact. I always have, due to childhood trauma. It took me ages to learn body language. I has got worse over the last few  years. Along with my social anxiety disorder.

The problem is i still look at people. I just look down. I am not thinking about were i am looking when I am speeking. So i can seem like i am stairing at peoples bodies. Its really embarrassing when i realise and im sure how i act when i realise makes it seem worse. (Red face, panic, don't know where to look).

The episode then triggers me and i am in a panic for a few hours. Possibly have a panic attack.  Im then wierd around them. I feel bad people don't deserve that. They don't deserve to be avoided, because I can not physically speak to them or look at them.

Has anyone had a similar issue? How do you deal with it?

Any advice on eye contact?
Thank you

[Armee]

Oh me, too, for sure. I bet you aren't making people uncomfortable though.

With some people you could experiment with letting them know...but not in all situations. Or even most.

I only started being able to make eye contact with my therapist of more than 3 years when we started doing a specific EMDR technique where the bilateral stimulation comes from alternating clapping your hand against your leg left right left right etc. The therapist does it along with you, facing you, clapping their hand against their own leg. As I did that with my therapist it became easier to look at him, briefly. I think it might be because it's kind of similar to playing Patty cake! Since then it's been a little easier.

I also noticed even before that that I wasn't even making eye contact with objects. When I noticed that I started looking at things with both eyes, really looking and fixing my eyes on the object and the totally coolest thing happened!!! I gained depth perception that I had no idea I was missing. It made the whole world so beautiful and amazing.

I think we are all just doing the best we can with the scars we carry and the adjustments we had to make to get through our lives. The more honest we can be with those around us maybe the easier it will be to accept ourselves as we are. It's OK that you can't make eye contact. It really is.

[woodsgnome]

Eye contact has never been my best modus operandi, but as Armee points out, feel I've done the best I could with it. I've performed well in both on-stage acting and performing music, but I noticed a tendency to 'lose' it when direct eye contact would occur. It scared me, even without immediate cause, based mostly of course on bad memories.

The 'why' is easily explained -- I have a pronounced fear of people stemming from multiple traumas. Despite that, I was able to interact with people -- had to, especially in the two areas mentioned above. Somehow I seemed to be able to overcome that, and other than social pressure, didn't fully catch that eye contact is as important as some say it is. When I tried apologizing for my lack of eye contact to my T, she waved it off as a normal protection strategy used by many trauma survivors.

There's sometimes a cultural component involved. Some cultures don't consider eye contact it as much as others do.

That said, I guess from what you've shared, ILoveCoffee, I'd just suggest re-directing your gaze upwards a tad, still avoiding direct eye contact if necessary. Speaking more to the periphery than directly at a person. I've always done that and unless it's pointed out as a problem (I can't recall that it ever has), I feel okay with it.

I hope you can at least become a little more comfortable with this. And start by going easy on yourself.   

[1lovecoffee+stars74]

Thank you both, its actually made me feel so much more comfortable just hearing that

[CactusFlower]

I second woodsgnome's comment on the cultural aspect. I was a military dependent as a kid and spent several of my formative years in Asian countries. To this day, I find direct eye contact feels rude and disrepectful. It's a hard thing to work on when that's not the "norm" in America. I'm often not sure when to actually meet someone's eyes or how long to hold it before it's considered uncomfortable.

[Mary Ann]

Hi love coffee,
Few days late for this I know,...
Eye contact is something I've struggled with such a lot as well...and I agree with  Armee , people aren't perhaps as bothered about eye contact  as you think?
I can't keep eye contact  with my therapist at all, can't even begin too.
And the worse I'm feeling  mentally the poorer my eye contact becomes.
The good thing is though, that the people who care about me, like very close friends use it as a barometer...to gauge what my heads doing...on those days I'm struggling but can't explain...so it's useful in that way, at least for me.

[1lovecoffee+stars74]

Thank you

I appreciate the comment. I don't feel that it is too late. Thank you for the time you have taken to make it.

[Master of my sea]

I'm massively late to this post but it resonated with me.
I have struggled with eye contact for as long as I can remember. There are very few people I can make eye contact with and it's not for long. It makes me feel really exposed. I have only had it pointed out to me by one person and that's only in recent years. This is the first person who has either noticed or said anything, but they clocked on to what I do almost immediately.

I look at peoples' foreheads or the space between their eyebrows. It looks like eye contact to the other person (most of the time). I learned to do this in my teens when I started taking drama at school and have done it ever since.
I will look at people's eyes to gauge emotions/intent but usually I do this when they aren't looking directly at me and if eye contact is made, I hold it for a second before I look away.

Like I say massively late to the party lol but just wanted to share

[NarcKiddo]

Only just came across this post, probably because of the recent reply by Master of my sea.

I, too, have always struggled with eye contact and I generally look over the other person's shoulder, or at their mouth if I need to gauge what they are feeling.

I am currently working on maintaining eye contact in casual social interaction where I know the person is no danger to me.

[Master of my sea]

I don't have many face to face, social interactions so I find that I struggle even more now than I did before.

My son doesn't really do eye contact either but he is still quite young so that could just be an age thing. I do wonder though if it is something he has picked up from me

[Papa Coco]

This is so interesting.

I have always, always looked at people's noses or mouths. When I try to make eye contact with anyone I get a wave of anxiety, as if I'm not worthy to look them in the eye.

I'm so glad you revived this old thread. I'm shocked to find out I'm not the only person who can't make eye contact with others. For me, I've always assumed it's a sense that I'm not worthy. OR perhaps, as in some cultures, eye contact is seen as aggression, and I am very, very conflict averse. I will do anything to avoid conflict.

Time to do some research.

Thanks for bringing this up!

[jimrich]

I got so bad that I couldn't even look at a photo of someone looking at me!  I was so deeply infected with toxic shame that I just couldn't look anyone or thing IN THE EYE!!! After I began group therapy, I was taught to work on my self worth & self esteem which was severely damaged by my shame based family.  I started by trying to look steadily in the eyes of photos or even store dummies!  I even began trying to hold eye contact with strangers as they walked by me on the street.  It was very difficult but the higher my self worth rose, the easier it became to look others IN THE EYE.  I got so good at this that I began doing casual "staring contests" with others.  That was not such a good idea but I had to do it until I no longer needed to stare someone down.  Self worth/respect was the key and helped me get over my fear of eye contact and even a need to win a staring contest.  It seems that self worth and respect is the bottom line for me to all of my "issues" even if it's sometimes lacking or lost.  "I'm OK." is my current most useful mantra.

[Denverite]

I am recovering from having this issue. The key, for me, has been to stop attending to or thinking about myself as much as possible. I realized recently that I literally could not hear other people; that I was constantly blanking out of the conversation as I would get sucked into "is this the right amount of eye contact? I looked away, was that weird? Do they think I'm weird? How long is enough? I feel anxious! Let me try that eye contact skill I saw on YouTube." Etc, etc, etc. Now I put most of my focus on the other person. Where they're looking while we speak, how their lips move, their gestures, their tone of voice...And of course, what they're actually saying! Which isn't easy - there's still the anxiety. But it's been a short time and it already feels better. There's an instinctual flow to it that you can regain over time.

[Papa Coco]

I look at the face just below the eyes. I watch the mouth move as if I'm reading lips. Nobody has ever said that they wish I made eye contact, but on the positive side of that, people routinely tell me that I'm a non-threatening man. Someone they feel they can trust.

I learned this about myself in a hospital Emergency Room when I was in my early 30s. For a few years in the 1990s, I volunteered as a sexual assault victims advocate. I answered the Hotline, and was on call to all area hospitals, police stations, and schools in the event a victim of an assault needed support. One night, A local Emergency Room had a woman who'd been raped by a stranger when her car broke down needed an advocate while I was on duty. The police officer who brought her into the ER was making her nervous. I arrived at the hospital and asked the nurse if I should call my team and ask for a woman to replace me, because I wasn't sure that, being male, I should be the best person for the job. I was the only male on staff, but it was my night on call, so I was the person called in. That nurse smiled and said, "You'll be fine. You aren't threatening at all." It was the first time anyone had ever said that to me in a positive way.

I did sit with that victim for the entire night. She was thankful for me being there. With me sitting nearby, the police officer could leave the room. She liked that. During my years on that job, nobody ever asked for me to be replaced by a female, and I attribute much of my "non-threatening" status as being because of how I look at people's faces, but I don't look them straight in the eye. I think that subconsciously, in some cases, the human brain sees that as a non-violent, non-predatory person. I look at the bridge of their nose, or at their upper lip. But not directly into the eye.

Looking people in the eye sort of shows an assertiveness that doesn't reflect my personality. If I DO look someone in the eye, I, myself, get nervous. I don't mean to do this, it's just how I am. I do it automatically, but I've learned that it works for me, so I'm okay with myself knowing that I look just below the eye instead.

[Armee]

Papa Coco,

Thank you for posting  this. You are not threatening and that is a great quality. I can't understand why we would think as a society that being threatening toward fellow humans is a good trait. But thanks for posting about your experience as an advocate. I've been wondering if I'll ever be well enough to do that. I hope so.