Strategical advice asked to protect my child

Started by Marianne, July 13, 2022, 01:08:15 AM

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Papa Coco

Hey Marianne

I typically don't give advice. I might occasionally make suggestions, but normally I prefer to always share my story so that others can decide for themselves if my experience can help them.  This is because I'm TERRIFIED of hurting anyone with my advice. I'm not a professional, but I am someone who has been blamed for other people's misery my entire life, so I'm very, very squeamish about ever saying "Here's my advice." In this particular post, I DO offer some advice, but please, please, please take it with a grain of salt. If anything I say makes sense to you, great, but if not, please just ignore it. This situation is so triggering for me that I can't just leave the thread without offering what I do believe I know about coercive control in dysfunctional families.

I'm so sorry to hear about your entire story. How your dad has turned your siblings and your son against you. That is what my family did to me too. That's why your story is such a trigger for me. On July 13th, Armee said something in a post on this thread: She said, "Taking care of yourself so you can give your son the stability he needs is what you are working on right now and so important and you are really doing a good job. Truly Marianne."

I think that's a great comment. There are a lot of triggers for me in this thread, but not so bad that I can't stay with it. One is that your dad continues to manipulate you, your siblings, and your son, over and over again. You are asking yourself if he's really that evil. Not knowing your story intimately, I can't say for sure, but I DO remember spending yeeeeears asking myself the same question about my soulless, evil elder sister, dad and brother who, in the end, turned out to be a big fat YES! YES THEY ARE truly evil from the soles of their feet to the tops of their heads.

The greatest day of my life was the day I finally stopped making excuses for them and gave myself permission to just see them for what they really, truly were. Hateful, jealous, controlling, sociopaths. I finally came to fully accept that they did NOT love me. They loved messing with me, but I was just another family dog to kick. Fully accepting the truth I'd spent my lifetime trying to not accept set me free!!!.

What I know about the soulless monsters in my family is that the continually convinced me that their evil ways were them taking good care of me. Every mean, horrible thing they did to me was "for my own good." (LIARS!!!!!) They claimed that they could see how crazy I was so they were helping me handle a life I wasn't able to handle on my own. (LIARS!!!!) Of course, when they'd finally get me to completely fall apart and start screaming gibberish and swearing and at them, that would just be used as evidence that I really was crazy.

My tactic, when faced with situations like yours, is I know...I KNOW beyond the shadow of a doubt, that ANY contact with sociopaths is bad for me. They WILL win every conversation. If they don't win...if by some odd chance I am able to make them feel like I was right and they were wrong, I need to watch my back because they will seek heavy, merciless revenge on me later for making them feel like they were "humiliated" by me being right.

In any conversation with a sociopath, if you lose, you lose now, and if you win, you lose later. (To you, a conversation is a conversation, but to a sociopath, a conversation is a sport that they intend to win).

I know you can't go No Contact, because you have a son you care deeply for who is in this mess with you.  BUT I can hope that you really can start to see ways to avoid engaging in triggering conversations with your dad or siblings. I hope you can one day find yourself in a place where you can just politely speak when spoken to, keep all conversations on the weather, and don't let them drag you back into their insanity. (That's where my family kept dragging me. It was THEIR insanity that I was suffering in). Sociopaths have ONLY ONE POWER: Word smithing. They can take anything you do, say, think, or hear and spin it to sound like you're crazy. And they WILL do it. Because it's fun for them to have someone they can kick around all day, every day. 

Some people believe they want to have a last word with the sociopaths that have abused them for years, but I'm also here to say, the sociopaths LOVE it when their victims try to tell them off. They are masters at the art of words. They have hand movements, facial expressions, eye rolls, and other physical communications that they are masters at using against you. If you engage with them honestly, they will engage back with their entire arsenal of weapons so fast that you'll just go crazy again in their presence. At least that was my experience.

Tagging on to Armee's comment, I feel like if you can get as much time with your son as possible, and just have fun with him, and make sure to keep all conversation light and loving, he might eventually be able to see for himself that you aren't what his evil grandfather says you are.  Kids today are pretty darn smart. I'm so impressed by their ability to think for themselves.

Naturally if he's in the grips of a truly skilled sociopath, he's going to have to really work hard to see through the jerk. But kids are very smart. VERY smart. And if you are the mom he wants to be with, the one who takes him out for ice cream and engages in conversations about what is important to HIM in life, he just might start to ask himself if grandpa is really a good man or a monster.

I have a strong belief that fear disguises itself as loyalty. Your siblings and son are afraid of your dad, so they are behaving loyally to him. Most often, the loyal victims don't even really realize that their loyalty is actually fear. So they don't do anything to break free. I believe it's a version of Stockholm syndrome, and it runs rampant in families and workplaces that have a nasty sociopath in the middle of the mix stirring things up for simple pleasure. I can't speak for your dad, but I can say that my NPD siblings and dad tore people down to nervous nubs because it was fun for them. It made them feel powerful. There was NO other reason, (except money. Sociopaths will kill for money).

And let me also say that if ANYONE ever asks you, "Oh, now why would he have said or done that?" You just say, "Because it's fun for him.... PERIOD." Well-meaning people will try to tell us that family is more important than it really is.

I really, truly recommend reading The Sociopath Next Door by Dr. Martha Stout. It really speaks to the situation you're in.

There's no quick or easy fix to this, but I really like Armee's suggestion to take good care of yourself, distance yourself as much as possible from your dad's lies and be the mom your son wants to be with. Trust that he's smart and one day, he might be able to see what's really happening for himself. That's when he'll make his own decision. And if he's so brainwashed that he never does come to realize he's in the cold grip of a monster, then you have, at least, spent your time taking care of yourself.

Kizzie

Marianne, if you Google "parental alienation" and lawyers/social workers in your area, I'm fairly certain you'll be able to locate some professionals/agencies who deal with the type of situation you're in.  In this case it's your father who is actively alienating your son from you (typically it happens with couples who are divorcing).

Your area Child Protective Services branch may also know about this syndrome and be able to help. You will need someone who can see through the wonderful grandpa personna though. 

Marianne

#17
Thanks you all.

I think both my parents responses, as well as my own, have been harmful to my child. I've asked the MH system and a child therapist for help a billion times, wasn't believed, and then didn't even believe my own judgement anymore. And I still find that hard. I always self-doubt. :stars:

I'm now starting to get help though. A social worker saw a bit of what happened, and started to believe me. Then she spoke to my psychiatrist, who now started to believe me. And they helped me go to people who help children. Not really CPS, but something similar. It's just hard...for I can't prove it. And on surface level, which is what most people look at, I am the crazy one. Because I responded with anger and fear to what was done to me and my child...and nobody saw what was underneath. Oh, I also get help from a psychologist who is specialized in narcissist abuse and emotional abuse. She will help me respond better, so I can at least do my own part in this, for my child.

My dad is...there is a lot of...i do not believe he is a sociopath. I believe he acts from his own fear, need for control, shame, damage, and the like. Maybe NPD-ish. This night I again said something positive to him. I feel like trying again and again and again. Also because of my faith, I feel I should be loving and forgiving. Which obviously works against me. And my kid. As did my fighting back, and all the other emotion I showed.

I'm working real hard on being a good mum, and hope my kid can still find back his trust, his own self, and all. I'm trying to be real. And gentle with him. I have fun together.

Papa Coco, I especially want to thank you for sharing your experience. That is brave, with the triggering it caused you. Thank you. I hope you heal more and more.

Blueberry

I'm really really glad that help is coming to you, Marianne!

Marianne

Thanks! I'm happy about that as well.

I also do not wish to put all the blame with my dad. I did stupid things, loads of them, as well. I think he is just angry, and kind of blocks all the bad things he and my mum did and the impact that had, and blames it 100% on me. I did the same before. 

I'm mostly just working real hard on my own part now. If I get help with that, I can be a better mum for my kid, and that's what really counts. Dad is better to my kid than he was to me, I believe, though it isn't exactly perfect. And I can only change myself. 

I'm a little sad at the moment...I stupidly reached out in a positive way again. Told dad despite it all, I love him. Got nothing in return. Just silence. :-/

Papa Coco

Hey Marianne,

I'm glad to hear you found some help. Here in Seattle, calling CPS is pointless. They really don't help anyone as far as I've ever seen. But it sounds like you've found a better source, and I'm SO GLAD to hear you have people who believe you now. The frustration of being ignored, or even called a liar when you really, really need help, is just unbearable for me.

I'm sorry about your dad though. His silence was not affirming for you.  I read a short, but interesting article today about the "Of Course Method" of how to deal with narcissistic people whom we love.  It has some empowering suggestions in it. https://www.selfloverecovery.com/blogs/blog/of-course-method.

Good luck going forward and please keep us in the loop. I'm hoping that you are able to make some progress, and I'd like to hear about it as it plays out.

I'm pulling for you!

Hugs.  :bighug: