IFS Therapy Conversations

[Papa Coco]

I'm a slow reader. I usually have a half dozen books I'm slowly going through at the same time. I'm still in Chapter three of the Self-Therapy book. Chapter three is a transcript of a conversation Dr. Easley had with one of his best patients as she went through IFS therapy for an Exile. I learned a bit more about IFS therapy.

Last night I spoke with an Exile who remembers being only barely 4 years old. At that time, my 4 siblings were all still living at home. (Seven people; two teen girls, one tween boy, one 4-y/o, and one infant in one small house made for a lot of busy, stressful noise and activity. I often describe it as having been born and reared in the winds of a tornado). We had a small house, and my dad had built a long, dark stairway down into the garage/basement and put a freezer at the bottom of the stairs. My older brother was 8 years older than me. Dinner was being made, Dad was on his way home from work, and I remember my brother was told to go down into the freezer and bring back a bag of frozen peas.

My brother was told to take me with him down the stairs. I was 4, and I suddenly realized I had to pee. And as a typical 4-year-old, it was already too late. I NEEDED to hit the bathroom NOW, but Mom refused to allow it. "NO! Go with your brother!" I tried several times to plead with her to let me use the bathroom first. I wasn't allowed to. I had to go down the stairs, and as my idiot brother opened the freezer, my bladder gave up trying to hold it. I peed my pants. At this time in my life I REALLY loved my dad. I was born with some deep, deep attachment to him. I BEGGED my brother and mom to not tell Dad when he gets home from work that I'd wet my pants. They promised they wouldn't tattle on me.  But when Dad got home, my idiot brother, who was 12 at this point, ran to him and shouted, "Guess what Jimmy did! He peed his pants! HA HA!"  That moment trapped itself in time in my brain, and for 58 years now I've felt that betrayal by my own lying family.  Dad didn't care that I'd wet myself, but the betrayal of my own brother promising to protect my shame from my greatest hero, and then IMMEDIATELY blurting out what he'd promised not to say is what burned itself into my Exile's brain and stayed there indefinitely. How could I ever trust these people again? This was a soul-crushing moment that changed me profoundly as I grew up in that house.

So, last night, I decided to sit down with this little 4-year-old and do some IFS therapy with him, following the model I'd just read in chapter three of Self-Therapy. I held him tightly and reassured him that my brother was an idiot then and still is. And that what he did was betrayal, and that his betrayals of us are going to be worse in the future. This was just your introduction to what a loser he will always be. I wasn't trying to make my Exile hate my idiot brother (We already do), but I was trying to show the 4-year-old that this was not about him, but was about having a mentally weak brother whose betrayals were not only reserved for me, but for everyone he would ever come in contact with, ever. I wanted my 4-year-old to stop thinking this was my brother's disrespect for him, but was actually my brother's disrespect for everyone on earth. And my little Exile just happened to be one of his many, many, many victims. I was trying to disconnect my Exile from the abuse. It wasn't personal. We had just gotten too close to a liar and saw him in action. Lying. Again.

But this morning, after sleeping on this conversation with my smaller Exiled self I asked him what he wanted me to do for him. He told me. "I want to love my family but without the masks."

OKAY! I immediately knew what my little Exile was saying to me. I lived for 50 years desperately loving and catering to a family who I loved...but was it really them I loved? Or was it the masks they wore? The masks of "a perfect family." The mask of love, which was used to soften the blow of the abuse. They'd lie, cheat and steal from me, but they'd say it was because they loved me, but their love came with a lot of pain and abuse. So, I loved their kind masks. The people they were pretending to be.

So today, I guess I can ponder and focus on what my Exile wants. He doesn't want to hate my family the way I do. He wants to understand who they were beneath the masks and he wants to love THOSE people.

My 4-year-old-Exile is a bigger man than I am. I'm typically happy just hating them all and moving on. But I think I'm about to be taught a lesson in forgiveness. I'm not sure yet. I just know that my 4-year-old wants to understand and love people. My hatred for all abusers and sociopaths and narcissists isn't doing me any good. Finding a way to understand them and stay safe from them, CAN happen without my hatred.  Maybe. Not sure yet. Time will have to decide whether this is possible.

Hard to say if this will change me, but I'm giving it a try. I'm going to keep meditating on this little Exile and his wishes until I know what to do with it all.  I need to finish chapter three and delve into chapter four. It's pouring down rain today. Good day to sit back and read a bit.

[Master of my sea]

Phil, I agree with you. This is a good conversation and I'm enjoying it too.
I have never heard of RIA, might help me to understand why I can't relax properly, ever. I think the last time I actually completely relaxed was back in August. But I was the opposite end of the country and away from all of the trauma and the people that caused it. Only the people I was with, and my Mum knew where I was. That was the first time I think I have felt some sense of safety in years. So many aches and tensions went away, whereas normally when I try and relax, my heart starts to race, and I tune in to the smallest of noises as movements. I become so jumpy, it's horrible and tiring. I'll definitely be doing some research.

Papa Coco, I'm not religious either and have never believed in a higher power as such. Like you, I believe we are all connected in some way. To each other and to the planet. We are all energy and by its very nature, energy doesn't stop, it's always transferred. Every time we do something, a piece of that is transferred either out into the world or onto a person or people. My problem right now I believe, is my parts aren't wanting me to put anything out into the world, it has always been so unsafe and every time I do, I get burned. I think this is why I am struggling to access, even for a second, my Core Self. She is too strongly guarded right now. But I am also struggling to communicate with my parts. To understand what they need. I need to read some more myself. I haven't got very far into the book yet either. I want to take my time and try and really understand all that is being said. I'm still only in Chapter 2 myself.
                                                                               
I'm so sorry to hear what your brother did. That was cruel and unnecessary. Siblings can be horrible creatures and in my own experience often have little respect for younger siblings and truly not care about your feelings. I'm not surprised it had a profound effect on you. You were so young, and that betrayal must have been huge.

(My 4-year-old-Exile is a bigger man than I am. I'm typically happy just hating them all and moving on. But I think I'm about to be taught a lesson in forgiveness).
Your comment here really made me think about being a small child again and how that's all we ever want. To love and be loved, to understand and be understood by those around us. No matter what they do. Children can teach us so much. Especially our own inner child, as we all know.
Sounds to me like that's what your Exile is still hoping to find. He is innocent and doesn't hold any of the resentment and anger that your adult self does (justifiably) and just wants to love and understand these people. Maybe because of that contrast, the two of you will hopefully be able to navigate a path to where you can help each other in new, more helpful ways. That you can help your Exile understand that it wasn't his fault. Never his fault.

I'm so pleased you were able to talk to your Exile and comfort him. You approach your parts with so much compassion and caring. So much understanding and zero judgement. It's inspiring to see and encourages me to keep going 

[paul72]

I'm going to start a thread on RIA.
I'm going to hold off on this book until I get this under a little better control if I can
I'll probably still chime in because dang, I really am appreciating this thread

[Master of my sea]

Phil, that would be awesome. I am really intrigued by RIA and at the moment I am just trying to absorb all the resources I can so this would be amazing 

The book will be there when you are ready 
Hopefully this thread will still be helpful for you too

[dollyvee]

My problem right now I believe, is my parts aren't wanting me to put anything out into the world, it has always been so unsafe and every time I do, I get burned. I think this is why I am struggling to access, even for a second, my Core Self. She is too strongly guarded right now. But I am also struggling to communicate with my parts. To understand what they need. I need to read some more myself. I haven't got very far into the book yet either. I want to take my time and try and really understand all that is being said. I'm still only in Chapter 2 myself.
                                                                               

When I first started IFS on my own, I wondered if I didn't have enough Self energy and was contacting my parts correctly. I think after a lifetime of dealing with narcissists, where you are taught not to take up space and to acquiesce to others, it was difficult to think Self is/was there. I think it was also maybe taught that Self was to be feared, or there was a punishment for speaking up/acting from Self. I'm also learning that just trusting myself is a big process. For me, it's still there what if I do something wrong? What if I make a mistake?

During an IFS I did relating to a dream I had, I had this feeling where things get really big, like a fear getting really big. So, I asked if there was a part behind it and to step forward and I met a two year old little girl that I think was me who was behind that feeling. I thought/think of her as an exile, I don't think she was a protector, but instead of the typical "exile hiding pain," she was the "fun, light, happy toddler stuff" that I think I had to hide away in my family.

Someone also mentioned to me that there are non-verbal parts that can be active. During an IFS, I was aware of this rock/transformer like stomping part that makes a lot of "background noise" in my mind. I also met parts that aren't "mine," and belong to my family (mother and grandmother's line), and these are called legacy burdens. Another thing I learned when starting IFS is that you can have hundreds of parts. It's not one or two that determine your make-up. I learned that some people keep them on a beach (what is a good calming environment for them) and the person goes to the beach and checks in on them and asks if anyone needs attention. I think it's very much a step by step process and there is no "pow" answer. 

MOMS - I also find it hard to unblend sometimes and can be difficult to stop and see that I'm blended. As I mentioned to Hope, I feel like having CPTSD is like driving, or riding, in a car and you pass by all these "things" but don't necessarily experience them. It's like CPTSD keeps you moving. From reading your post it sounds like you already have an idea of your protector part, the one that doesn't want you to engage, or give any more of yourself to others. Maybe you could have a conversation with that part and let it know that you are an adult and creating a safe space for yourself, and that you can handle what comes up so they don't need to be so protective? That you think it's safe to experience more Self energy. There might be another part that then comes in and doubts what you say (for example) but then you ask that part to step back and reassure it that you can handle it.

The link below describes: "One of the first steps of IFS is unblending. It is inviting the client to see the emotion, sensation, belief as not what one is but as a manifestation, an experience resulting from the motion of a specific Part." The anxiety you are experiencing is coming from a part, so the aim is to create space between you and that part so you can dialogue with it.

https://lifearchitect.com/blog/parts-work-ifs-therapy/

This is quite a long talk series, but is given by Richard Schwartz, the creator of IFS and goes through the different elements of working with IFS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UfmGwENz9M&t=2348s

Derek has a lot of videos on his website. I've only seen a few of them but I think they could be helpful. This is another on working with Self where he says Self is not an advanced state for olympic athletes, but is readily available:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwNxK01BfHM

Papa Coco I'm sorry that happened to you, but it also sounds like you're at the beginning of a better understanding (and healing) with what happened. I hope you do find a way to understand them and stay safe from them. It must have been hard for that four year old not to receive the love from the people he most wanted to love him, and I can understand why you went to the lengths you did to get that love from them with the masks. I glad you are finding something valuable in IFS for you.

[dollyvee]

This is also a good talk that I will post in ketamine therapy/psychedelic therapy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBikJMvkIT4

He describes the process of finding a trailhead which might be useful to some as well, the process of finding something to focus on and begin an IFS dialogue.

Papa Coco - this is around shame and thought I would post it after you talking about your experience with shame:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SPfiTld_Js

Part II of the talk on shame has some good framework for how to deal with parts that come up and get them to step back etc as well as unburdening:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Isy3jWEyhQ

[dollyvee]

One of the difficult things to pin point with IFS I think is when to know if we're blended and what to do about that. Like in the video, I'm aware that I have a thinking part that's very active. For me it was safer to be in my head than in my body growing up.

I listened to this talk on blended parts and IFS and found it to bring up reactions from my thinking part. I also think he points out some good strategies for seeing if we're blended or not by looking out for how we describe a part. Is it with I think or I feel? I've often felt in therapy when I was asked about something body sensation etc or what does it bring up, that I wasn't really sure of the answer. Now, I'm wondering if I was blended with a thinking part. For example, before EMDR t would ask on a scale of 1-10 what how do you feel about x and I usually have two numbers. It's like a back and forth, or I'm unsure.

Anyways, might be useful tool for some to connect to their parts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p_3bA_XOPA

This is also a wealth of podcasts on IFS on different subjects:
https://podtail.com/en/podcast/ifs-talks

Trauma and Dissociation Informed IFS with Joanne Twombly:
https://podtail.com/en/podcast/ifs-talks/trauma-and-dissociation-informed-ifs-with-joanne-t/

[Master of my sea]

Thank you for all the resources Dolly. Very much appreciated 

I am forever thinking, what if I make a mistake? What if I get it wrong? I wouldn't call myself a perfectionist by any means, but I am so particular about the way some things are done because of these thoughts and the fear that comes along with them. Being compassionate and considerate to myself was something I was always told to do and be, but it always felt like when I did, I was made to seem selfish and inconsiderate of others. So it would make sense that I am struggling to make that connection and gain that access to Self now. Thank you for highlighting the fact that this has generally been a negative thing for us to do. It's made me look at my own situation a bit differently.

I am starting to realise just how simple but also complicated IFS can be. From reading the book and the first case study (which reduced me to tears) I can see that for some people, the process is much easier but then there are those of us where it takes a lot more work. Like you said, there is no 'pow' answer and no two experiences with it are the same.
I have some time to myself this weekend and I think I am going to use it as an opportunity to try and do some IFS work. See if I can't try and un-blend, or even just notice that I am blended. Try and create that dialog. This will be a great opportunity to have a look through the links you have posted here.

I really like the idea of a place where all the parts can go, a place that is calm and relaxing and I can go and check in with them (once I have got them there )

Again just want to say thank you for all the links you have posted and the insight you have shared.

[Papa Coco]

Ditto to Master of my Sea's comments about how we can't be nice to ourselves because we were once punished anytime we were kind to ourselves.

I had an IFS experience this morning that didn't make much headway, but did touch on, and expose, a major stressor for me.

I awoke at 3:30 AM in a mild anxiety-panic. I overthink everything because that's what people with anxiety disorders do. I ruminate about the past and worry myself stupid over the future--because that's what anxiety disorders make us do. I still feel all the pain from every mistake I've ever made, and I assume I'll feel that same pain again if I don't think of everything that can go wrong if I make more mistakes in the future. In my case, anxiety often manifests itself as chronic, constant worry and 24x7 hypervigilance.

I accessed an Exile and a protector this morning. I accessed them only for a few seconds because the pain that came with the access was too intense to move forward with. So, I got up out of bed and distracted myself with an early breakfast and some computer time. I wish that I could have not distracted. I wish I could have stayed with the pain long enough to start to heal, but no. It was too intense.

The Exile that I met this morning is a small boy who lives in my head and often blurts out the words; "Please just love me." What I mean by that is, when I'm ruminating about past mistakes, and am feeling utter humiliation from something I did or was done to me in decades past, I often involuntarily/accidentally blurt the words "Please just love me." The words sound like they're from a 4-6 year-old-child. Up until today, I've never asked myself why those words fall out of my face all the time, nor who in my IFS family is looking up from deep down in my soul, asking me to love him. This morning as I lay in bed wondering what/who woke me up, I heard this little voice, "Please just love me". So, today, for the first time in my life, I tried, very hard, to talk with this little person, and also with a protector who pops up whenever the Exile asks for love.

So far, my Exiles most often speak to me through bodily pains and discomforts, while Protectors will dialogue with me in my head. When this Exile appears, I feel a sudden shock to my chest, throat and face. I feel heat, like a volcano, bubbling up from my heart. But my heart feels cold and dead. My arms go weak. My eyes turn downward toward the floor in shame. Then the words "Please just love me" fall out of my mouth involuntarily. It happens several times per day. Without the Exile really talking with me, I feel that it is obvious why the Exile asks for love. As a child I was not allowed to ask for attention. I was humiliated and scorned if I wanted to be loved. My mother would verbally instruct the entire family of 7 of us, "Don't look at Jimmy. He just wants our attention." (This was during ages 0-7). Every mistake I ever made was hit by the famous catholic phrase, "What made you think THAT was a good idea?" And "You really think you're something...don't you?" It was not okay for a lowly loser like me to ask for attention or love, so it seems obvious to me that my little Exile is still trapped there. He knows that people forgive people they love. But people don't forgive stupid little boys who don't deserve to be loved. So he wants me to please love him so he can be forgiven. But I don't. (At least up until today I didn't. I HOPE I can work through this so that my little Exile starts to feel loved enough to stop asking me to love him).

As a child in my big family, my siblings all got all the attention they wanted, but I wasn't allowed to ask for attention or love so I had to take and enjoy love when (and only when) they darn well felt like giving it. (Which usually meant they wanted something from me, so they pretended to love me so as to trick me into giving stuff to them).

When I asked the protector why he ignores the little Exile asking for love, I was told that it's too painful for me (Adult/Core Self) to have to deal with that little Exile, so distraction is the strategy to bring me back into the present moment and continue to ignore the needy child still asking for love. It seems cruel, but our protectors are not cruel. This protector is protecting ADULT me from CHILD me. In a complicated twisted way, I understand that. This protector doesn't believe anyone will ever love this Exile, so he helps me avoid dealing with the unloved child Exile.  It's sort of a "pick your battles" type of strategy. This Protector doesn't believe I can help this Exile so he gives me the gift of distraction. We all use the gift of distraction to help us deal with the fact that we can't help every abused child on earth, or feed every starving person on earth, or permanently fix global climate change, so we distract ourselves from battles we can't win in order to avoid going insane from empathy overload. I think that's why my protector distracts me away from the Exile, because up until now, the protector believed this unloved Exile was in the "I-can't-help-so-why-try?" category. The notion of sitting with this Exile feels like a case of empathy overload. I can only handle the feeling for about 8-10 seconds before I have to break free from it.

This morning, I allowed the protector to distract me because the pain in that Exile really is too frightening to deal with. HOWEVER, I want to find peace for this Exile. I want him to feel loved so he can stop asking "just please love me."

I know that my therapist would tell me to make space for this Exile. No need to solve his problems just yet. The best thing I can do to further my healing on this step is to allow the Exile to feel what he's feeling and to simply give him the attention he's always wanted. No need to fix it. Just give him his fair space at my table.

My plan is to stop what I'm doing about 3 times today, sit down, and try to access the unloved Exile and the protector who is distracting me away from him, and to stay with the energy of that sad Exile for at least 10 seconds each time. Maybe then, tomorrow I will be able to sit down with him three times for 11 seconds. Then maybe 12 seconds. Then maybe a minute, and eventually, a permanent breakthrough.

[paul72]

Hi Papa Coco

Those are some powerful words from a little boy.
I hope the space and attention you give him brings joy and love to him and you.
What more can we do, than show love to our parts
I can understand how painful it is to access that sadness and I'm sending a ton of support, best wishes and courage as you do.
Please just love me. It's haunting.

[Papa Coco]

Thank you Phil.

Your support really helps.

[DogMan]

My therapist labeled some parts as "Inner Critic" and "A protector"

I'm a little dubious at the singularity, it appears as multiple parts. With different voices and different focus

I've read up a bit tonight and am wondering if "Exiles" are always young selves? Or if exiles can be abusers from adulthood?

[Master of my sea]

DogMan - From everything I have read so far, it all seems to be that our Exiles are our younger selves, but I am not knowledgeable enough yet to state that as a fact. That's why we have our Protectors. They are there to guard the Exile, to keep them safe from whatever has triggered them. Our Protectors wouldn't want to guard our abusers. This is just my take/understanding of it so far. I am still learning so could be completely wrong.
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I think I have a part in play at the moment. All day yesterday and today I have been restless and agitated. Not knowing what to do with myself. Whenever I try a focus on something, I zone out. This can last from a couple of minutes to a good hour. It's like this part doesn't want me to focus.
I have been getting little snapshots of childhood events but they are fleeting. Almost like a slideshow or short clips. Every time I try to focus on a particular snapshot or reel, it's gone and something else takes its place. I sat last night and tried to communicate with this part but I couldn't get a response or any acknowledgement. I don't really know how to progress with this. Am I approaching it wrong? Or is it that I wasn't communicating with this part from Self?
I'm going to go over some of my IFS notes and maybe try and do some more reading (if I can focus long enough) and see if I can't figure out why I'm finding it a challenge to communicate with this part.

[Papa Coco]

Hi Dogman,

I believe we absolutely do have many, many Exiles and Protectors in our brains. I once had to ask the forum why they are called Exiles. It has to do with the fact that Trauma doesn't happen from a scraped knee. It happens from mortal fear of being exiled from life, exiled from society, exiled from family and protectors. The greatest fear we have, especially as children, is being exiled from the herd, and left to die in the wilderness.  For example many children who are molested, are molested by someone their parents trusted. The child knows the parents trust this person, so they feel like their parents--their ultimate protectors--delivered them to the abuse. That's a recipe for a trauma so severe that it often blocks memories completely from the victims. In the earlier years of my therapy, I said, "I feel like I was stripped down by my family and dangled, unarmed, and unprotected in a pit of alligators every day when I was sent to school."

It would be rare to have an exile who is triggered from a bad day on a soccer game. Trauma comes from fear of total annihilation and loss of all protection. I believe that trauma is how our brains 1) teach us not to repeat something that almost killed us once, and 2) provide pain relief by dissociating us during unbearable pain. Each traumatic incident, or each traumatic fear I have has its own Exile. I believe that Exiles can be created at any time in our lives, but that childhood is where we will have the biggest collection of them. Especially with the list of events that you've told us about from your own childhood.  In adulthood, any Exiles we might create might be from being almost killed in a train crash or house fire. As children, we're so much more vulnerable that Exiles are created with much more frequency.

The way that I think about it is, I imagine that an Exile is a part of me who got filed away on a specific date or time in life. He sits quietly in a compartment of my brain. I forget about him until something today mimics the fear that created him 50 or 60 years ago. When the exile comes out of his compartment, another part of my brain, a protector, is triggered to protect that exile. I end up in 2022, dragged into using a method that shielded that helpless Exile in 1972. That exile and protector actually believe it's 1972 again, and the current danger is as real as it was 50 years ago when I was small and helpless. So my core self and my therapist need to work with them to show them that we're safe today.

Each of us still has a core self. What one therapist I saw on YouTube called the captain of the ship. The exiles might be the passengers, and the protectors are the crew. We don't want to exile our exiles, nor do we want to throw our protectors overboard. As a captain, we need a crew. We want them to adjust their protection to be more appropriate for 2022, rather than 1972. We want to comfort our exiles. Imagine them in our minds as if they are sitting next to us on the sofa and we, our core selves, are hugging them and promising that they are safe. Then we want to talk intelligently with our protectors and ask them why they are doing what they're doing. Intelligently thank them for their dedication and service and help them to see that we are now able to help the exile, and they can stop giving us the voices or shakes or stomachache, or raging anger, or whatever outdated method of protection they successfully used to help the Exile 50 years ago.

This is not a fast process. For me, I absolutely needed a good DBT to walk me through these moments of loving my Exiles and thanking my Protectors. But my DBT has done it with me many times now, and I'm finally able to do this on my own now. One visit is often not enough for me. I often visit Exiles multiple times until my brain begins to trust that I'm genuinely loving him. As my brain sees that I am trying, and I'm doing it lovingly, my brain has finally begun to trust my loving motives more and more, and as time goes on, this whole IFS process is getting easier and easier for me. But slowly.

In the bigger picture, I have the challenge to acclimate myself slowly into a temperature of loving myself after a lifetime of siding with my abusers and hating myself along with them.

For me, I succeed far better if I focus on progress rather than instant cure.

[paul72]

While I haven't gotten used to those terms, I think you described this so perfectly Papa Coco.

The way that I think about it is, I imagine that an Exile is a part of me who got filed away on a specific date or time in life. He sits quietly in a compartment of my brain. I forget about him until something today mimics the fear that created him 50 or 60 years ago. When the exile comes out of his compartment, another part of my brain, a protector, is triggered to protect that exile. I end up in 2022, dragged into using a method that shielded that helpless Exile in 1972. That exile and protector actually believe it's 1972 again, and the current danger is as real as it was 50 years ago when I was small and helpless. So my core self and my therapist need to work with them to show them that we're safe today.

Each of us still has a core self. What one therapist I saw on YouTube called the captain of the ship. The exiles might be the passengers, and the protectors are the crew. We don't want to exile our exiles, nor do we want to throw our protectors overboard. As a captain, we need a crew. We want them to adjust their protection to be more appropriate for 2022, rather than 1972. We want to comfort our exiles. Imagine them in our minds as if they are sitting next to us on the sofa and we, our core selves, are hugging them and promising that they are safe. Then we want to talk intelligently with our protectors and ask them why they are doing what they're doing. Intelligently thank them for their dedication and service and help them to see that we are now able to help the exile, and they can stop giving us the voices or shakes or stomachache, or raging anger, or whatever outdated method of protection they successfully used to help the Exile 50 years ago.

I believe exactly this 1000%.... maybe IFS isn't so different than how I visualize my ICs after all.
Thanks for putting such clear wording to this.