IFS Therapy Conversations

[dollyvee]

Hi Dogman,

I had a look into the focusing method you mentioned your therapist uses and to me it seems to be a variation of IFS but not IFS per se.

I think you are right that parts can come up as more than a singularity and there could be a couple reasons for this which are somewhat connected.

1. The part is actually blended with another part, so you are hearing multiple voices that seems like it's one part. In IFS, once you have Self energy/are in Self, you can ask that part the unblend, or for any other parts to step back/go into a waiting room, until you are speaking directly to the part that you would like to

2. The part is part of a system of parts and seems like it is one part. Parts can be "members" of a system of parts in us, which can be antagonistic etc. For example, you can have a firefighter that wants you to overeat to numb any feelings of shame/etc that are coming from an exile. This activates an protector (maybe in the form of an inner critic) who then becomes active, telling you how are you ever going to be successful etc if you can't control yourself. This could then activate another protector who challenges the inner critic/protector and tells you that you are doing the best you can etc. This is kind of a loose idea but there is more out there on systems. I think there's a podcast about it, but I will have a look.

I think you can have different parts that are exiles and doesn't necessarily have to be our younger selves. One of the things I like about IFS, is that you ask the part. So, you're not really guessing about a part's intention and can ask it directly, "what is your intention for me?" A protector might say something like, I want to keep you safe, I want to make sure this doesn't happen etc. An exile's response would be different as they keep all the buried feelings as Papa Coco mentioned; the things that the protectors don't want to come out. Once you make friends and gain the trust of the protectors (usually) you can speak with the exile. However, it doesn't always happen like that and sometimes exiles "pop" out.

As you progress with the exiles there's a process called unburdening where you take all the pain /shame/whatever from the exile and give it to one of the elements - burn it in the fire for example - and that exile is then transformed. So, they take on new qualities (as do the protectors) that are more "2022" than the coping mechanisms you used in the past.

One thing that's also interesting and might be relevant is that we can internalize parts that aren't us. For example, there are legacy burdens when you can internalize your parent (whomever) as an inner critic for example. It can then look like you are mimicking what this parent would say to you as a means to keep you safe, but ultimately, that part doesn't belong to you. There's a series of questions/ phrases that can indicate a legacy burden but I'm not sure how it would work with co-workers. There's also a whole other aspect of perpetrator/survivor energy exchange that I've read about but that's not for everyone as it probably lands in the more "out there" category.


The talk about system of parts might be here somewhere but this is a good resource of IFS podcasts. Have posted it above as well:
https://www.podcastaddict.com/podcast/2439917

dolly

[dollyvee]

This is also a good talk on shame that I listened to today which starts around ~25mins in

https://www.podcastaddict.com/episode/87695214

Some take aways are that shame has to "land" - that we have to identify with it and it then becomes "true" for us and goes from information to an "identity" which then spurs our system into action where the first step is to inhibit and hide this information (which is taken as true - emphasis mine)

- some people are more sensitive and that simple comments can trigger shame or something to be exiled

- shame is the opposite of compassion

- difference between shame and guilt - shame is a global judgement about me (I'm bad etc); guilt is a judgement about behaviour (which keeps us in line with the group; for socialization and can be a good thing)

- shame can be a protector --> that does the shaming; can also be an exile --> to feel shameful and the feeling the exile holds onto

- it's a way of control or getting power over someone else, and/or making them behave in a certain way; happens in parents to children, schools, social groups and all kinds of settings

These are the things that I thought pertinent to me and wanted to share. Especially the part about shame having to land and then we choose to believe that as true or not which becomes who we are essentially and how we see ourselves  just an a ha moment after a life time of being around some hard core shamers, coming from cultures and generations that shamed

[NarcKiddo]

I have just read this entire thread and thank everyone for their illuminating and personal contributions.

I probably won't post much here (if at all) for some time yet as I have only just come across this type of therapy referred to in a couple of books I have read. I've barely scratched the surface of dealing with one inner child but the parts theory makes sense to me and I think it may be helpful to work with parts rather than lump lots of parts into one inner child (or even several children representing different ages).

I will be reading, though, and I felt moved to alert you to my presence in the thread. That is unusual for me as I generally just like to keep in the background everywhere I go unless I am 110% sure I can contribute something that might be thought to have some value.

[Papa Coco]

Hey Phil,

I agree with you about IFS. It's only a new brand on an old concept. My therapist doesn't do IFS, but what he does do is get my core self in contact with my young, abused self, and helps me understand that all the grief I get from my own protective parts is meant to help, not hurt. He has me hug my frightened parts while discussing protection with my protective parts. IFS was invented long after my T started doing this with me. IFS is just another therapist's way of framing the process to help us all understand it better. In fact, my therapist, who is considered to be one of the best trauma therapists in the region, doesn't know what Complex PTSD is. Oh...he knows what it is, but he had never heard the term before I told it to him only recently. Other therapists thought you could only get PTSD from a single traumatic event, such as a car crash or a war. So my T was way ahead of the game by knowing PTSD could come from lost childhood abuse. His beliefs are exactly the same as those of C-PTSD and IFS, but without knowing the labels, he just somehow, intrinsically knew how to help anyway. It's like, he's been doing it forever, but never knew there were labels for any of it.

[Armee]

Hi all.

Thank you for this thread and wealth of information. I've avoided opening it since it started, fearful about parts and parts work and confused about IFS versus DID and not wanting to exacerbate any potential DID symptoms.

But I did try asking myself about a week ago why I get a specific pain in my feet remembering about this one event. My memory and visualization is impaired but I have a single photo from that summer and I brought that photo to mind. It's not visual but I can think about that photo and that girl in it and know what she looked like and feel her.

I started calling her "Feet" but then changed to Sandy. I imagined sitting next to her and asked why the foot pain happens, what happened to her feet? When I did that I saw an actual image of my foot appear. This does not happen for me.

But then....and here's where I have a question...other pains started clamoring for attention in a way that felt like they were completely separate from the one I was trying to talk to about the feet. There were Hips and Neck.

And then there was an avalanche of what are probably protector techniques...weird sayings, visual distractions, strange noises...

Has anyone experienced multiple parts...I guess in IFS terminology...multiple exiles from the same single traumatic event? Each had their own form of protector or firefighter. It felt different from when the pains have played through my body which happens plenty all one after the other. It felt like distinct parts?

It's possible the foot pain is a protector to start with, a sharp distraction from the other potentially more distressing pains but when I remember it almost always starts with foor pain and then progresses from there through the rest.

[Papa Coco]

Armee,

That sounds very plausible to me. Teachers of IFS discuss having many exiles and many protectors.

For me, IFS and DID and Trauma therapy seem to be perfectly good strategies, all created for the same purpose of putting a fractured whole person back together. I believe that the absolute, ultimate goal of all of us with PTSD is to re-connect our body, brain and spirit all back together to function as a well-balanced, three-legged stool.  But beneath the higher level headliners of body, brain and spirit, there exist many fractured detail parts. We often talk about dying by a million small cuts. To me, this is how the million small cuts all want to heal together.

Some therapists call my core self the captain of my ship, with a crew of many protectors who each service these many exile passengers. The glue the holds all my crew together is trust. Distrust fractured me. Trust must glue me back together. If my exiles and protectors are all on the same ship, then when one starts to feel trusted, the others take notice. When one starts to get loving attention, the others want it to. They suddenly see that the Core Self is ready to listen and comfort, so they start to jump on board. Sort of a monkey-see-monkey-do scenario.

I admit, this is my own personal way of grasping how it is that the momentum of healing takes hold in my own body, mind and spirit. A professional might dip a brow and say, "oooookayyyyy" and then clear her/his throat and get back to their professional process, but this impish way of seeing my parts works for me. The more one Exile starts to trust me, the more all of them do. Like clanking the dish...all the cats come running for dinner.

By this train of thought, I can see how when your foot felt enough trust coming from you, that it took the courage to appear finally in your mind's eye, other exiles took notice and wanted to be seen too.

That's all just my own childish way of looking at it in a way I could make sense of it all.

[storyworld]

I recognize this is an older conversation, but maybe it can continue? I am just learning about IFS but I'm finding it helpful in that it allows me to be honest about how certain parts of me feel in that it allows me a certain emotional distance. I suppose this may be what my therapist would call "unblending"?

[Armee]

I'd be interested in reviving the thread. I've just started really trying to work with parts though I have avoided any books so don't know what I'm doing. Interesting timing because last night I tried to get in touch again with the same exiled part who has had to bear all the trauma alone from this one event. I forgot I had posted here last time I tried to do that. Similar thing happened last night but it felt a bit less chaotic. But still opens a floodgate of pains. I suppose that's the point though, to not leave that part alone with it all.

[storyworld]

I'm freaking out and having a rough day but didn't want to not respond, Armee. I appreciate your post and sharing your experiences. I have therapy today. A part of me is in toddler mode. Another in angsty, angry teenager mode. Another part in shut down mode. And a very tiny, terrified part of me that is open to the healing journey. Today's session should be interesting ...

[Armee]

Good luck. I've been there. It'll be ok in therapy no matter what happens.

[dollyvee]

Hi Storyworld - I've found IFS helpful in a way that other therapies haven't been and allows me direct access to my emotions and is not me thinking or analyzing something. It's become more difficult though as things come up to sort of understand what's going on as I think there's dissociative/other parts active.

Hi Armee - there are others on here that have different experience in working with parts like with Janina Fischer's developmental trauma, which is parts based but somewhat different to IFS, that might be able to comment on this, but in IFS contacting exiles in the manner you're doing might be counterproductive. Without working with protectors first and trying to get in touch with those exiled parts can lead to a backlash, which can then lead to things getting worse. It might be useful to read a book and start with a basic knowledge of parts and how they work so as not to cause any issues.

___________________________

I've put this in my journal but might be useful to put here too as writing it out seems helpful. I feel like I'm trying to summarize things that I "know" or have learned so that I can see what parts are active etc as things feel "fuzzy."

- I'm realizing that Self was probably pushed out before it had a chance to develop which is maybe why people can feel overwhelming; that I don't have a Self to rely on, or there am suceptible to doubt etc instead of believing in Self. With a narcissistic family, they were always right and that led me to questioning myself or seeing that I was wrong. I wasn't allowed to express my feelings etc and my reality wasn't validated. I feel like this is verry young as on the other side is the feeling that I won't survive etc. It's also maybe in the way that the part shows up, that it isn't a coherent thought, but sensation. I think I need to explore this more. This could also be a legacy burden or something else. I feel like there's a few things active about allowing Self in.

- with this need for survival present, I think there's a part that is then very critical of myself and then things that I'm doing that might jeopardize my survival, and sort of keeps me stuck. I feel like this is a legacy burden but is also something that is quite amorphous and changes shape. I feel like the critical voice relates to my gf, but also to my m and gm who relied on my gf for monetary survival. It can be hard for me to see that I can rely on myself without an impending doom/nothing will ever be good enough etc, and that I have to give everything up (essentially me) in order to survive. It's really difficult to contact this part or to get a clear idea of it. Stuff about my gf started coming up recently like it was hidden in the background and there were important realizations that I had never considered. The two very strong dreams I had recently, also involved my gf.

So, I feel like I'm dealing with some dissociative or very young parts because it's hard to gain clarity on the things that are coming up. Add to that that I feel there are parts who don't want to let this go because they are worried about survival and trusting that I, as an adult, can handle these things. I don't know if the dissociation feels like a fog as some other people have described it. I think it's a tension in my shoulders and a just kind of humming in place, not able to go deeper. Normally, I can be quite reflective on my situation/what is going on, but it seems like this just stops. Interestingly, it's also like a forgetting on how to do things. Like I need to do invoices right now, which I know how to do, but going through and doing them seems daunting. Even though I know once I start it will be fine and go rather quickly, as well as giving me some satisfaction. On the other side is like a pit that nothing will ever bee good enough or something like that. Just wanted to add that.

[dollyvee]

Hi Armee - I'm curious why you chose to write about what I suggested in your journal and not on here?

[Armee]

I have no idea.

Well, now reading back on the post, I was writing about more than IFS and parts work in my journal and that statement about books and IFS flowed from the things I was trying to write in my journal. It's easier for me to find stuff in my journal to refer back to, so that's where I prefer to document reactions and such.

I just bristle a bit at the way the experts entrenched in IFS talk about it as being the be all, end all, especially not needing stabilization phase work. I have had bad experiences, harmful experiences with experts espousing one particular methodology and treating me certain ways if their extra special proven method doesn't solve the problem.

Those experiences with experts set on one particular preferred methodology (that they developed) have set me back much farther in healing than experimenting slowly on my own.

It wasn't meant as a criticism of your advice, just self-reflection on why the books on IFS rub me the wrong way.

I'm sorry if the way I expressed myself felt like I was disagreeing with you. 

You are right, and my therapist also thinks that I should read books on this and take what feels right and leave what doesn't. But I'm still not sure I want to.

[dollyvee]

Hi Armee,

I didn't think, or didn't take it personally, that you were disagreeing with me and I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion. What it came across as is someone who was so convinced that they were right about something that they couldn't engage, or give time to something that didn't support their own viewpoint, or to even consider that another viewpoint (reality) might be valid. I'm saying this because this is something that you have done in the past in my journal and on another thread about health issues. When I brought it up initially, you said that working with your t resolved it. I said that's great for you, but it didn't work for me. When I mentioned it again in my journal, you said the same thing and again, I said I'm glad you found something that worked for you, but it didn't work for me, which you never replied to. Then you came on my journal and did it again. To me, it feels like denying someone's experience in order to get your way.

I haven't come across any experts talking about how IFS is the be all and end all, but am happy to read what you are referring to. I think there are probably inexperienced therapists who might use IFS to fit everything, but you have those in any kind of therapy. I get your cautions especially if you had bad experiences in the past. It is important to be heard. What I do sort of fail to see is how learning about another modality means that you must immediately use it and it is deemed this the way you have to use it. To me, reading about something is simply gathering information about how something works, and then seeing if you're able to apply it to yourself. What comes up with what you wrote, in terms of IFS, is that it sounds like there are protectors active that are trying to keep you safe and that they are concerned your exiled parts might take over if you continue, which could very well happen. In IFS speak, it sounds like you're blended.

Hope you find the next step in your healing that's right for you,
dolly

[Kizzie]

I hope it's OK to move forward in this thread because I think an important point has been made that's worth discussing further. This isn't about IFS specifically, but it is about therapists being married to their approach. I recently had the exact experience you're talking about where because I wasn't loving the single therapy approach used and spoke up about it, I was the one with the problem.   Being blamed is so endemic to us I have to wonder how many survivors simply accept that.

I left the program which involved solely CBT treatment for seniors with anxiety and depression. I tried to tell the T's about my background of trauma and how I needed some relational therapy in addition to cognitive work. They didn't want to hear about it. I left the program with the blessing of the psychiatrist assigned to me (quite the surprise but he got it, he just wasn't in charge of the program to change things up). I know there were several others in the program who had trauma and a number who had come back to the program for a second or third time. Ostensibly the CBT just wasn't enough. I was really sad when one person said to me that they were back because they hadn't worked hard enough on the CBT. Another fellow who had never talked about his trauma in his life said to the group "I'm just going to let it all go and work on using this CBT to change my life." OMG.

I wrote an article about how relational treatment needs to be considered for seniors with anxiety and depression because many of us have untreated or unresolved trauma in our background and single approaches such as CBT do not address the deep wounding we experienced. It was just published by the ISTSS Complex Trauma Special Interest Group in their newsletter which will reach a ton of clinicians. Hopefully they will hear that the message that one approach alone such as CBT does not typically work well when it comes to trauma.

There are inexperienced T's out there and IMO we do need to be aware of that. I tried EMDR some years ago with one such T and my EFs were off the chart. I later learned about the approach and realized why this was; she had not done any of the grounding needed and went straight to the heart of my trauma. I was a mess for weeks.   

All this is to say I think we need to be careful of T's who are married to an approach, especially if they don't hear us or worse make us feel it is because we aren't trying hard enough, that we are the problem. Big red flag that.