Milkandhoney's revovery journal

[Snowdrop]

That sounds awful, M&H. I'd feel anxious and vulnerable in that situation as well, along with all sorts of other things.

I agree with Armee. You have every right to set boundaries, protect yourself and keep yourself safe.

Is there anything you can do to bring comfort to yourself? A hot drink or a soft blanket perhaps?

[Papa Coco]

Milkandhoney

I'm SO sorry to hear what your m is doing now. You do not deserve to be treated like this by anyone, let alone your own mother.

It seems suspicious that after you visited her, she suddenly needed to dig into your personal life...Hmm. Narcissists are acutely aware of when we are beginning to break free from them. Maybe while you were there, she could smell the odor of change. You weren't quite as easy to manipulate as you used to be. PANIC!  Narcissists HATE when their victims escape. So she needed to start digging. If you're tattling the truth to others about her nastiness, she needs to find a way to turn it around on you. She needs to find some dirt on you that she can manipulate and quiet you down. To a narcissist, life is one big competitive sport.  They know for a fact that they are incompetent at life. They're incompetent lovers, incompetent parents, incompetent employees, incompetent neighbors, etc. But rather than become competent at something, they choose to cloud reality with lies in order to hide their incompetence.

Love is just a word used to manipulate people with. This, to a narcissist, is war. How can she control you if you aren't her little puppet anymore?

I am on the edge of my seat to hear more. I hope she isn't able to take anything of importance from you.

[milkandhoney11]

Armee: Thank you so much for your validation. When I first hang up on my mom and decided to cut her off, I felt so dreadful because I was afraid of hurting her in a way. But the truth is that she had been hurting me for years and it's only right that I stand up for myself for once even if it feels uncomfortable and strange.

Snowdrop: Thank you for your kind words. I did indeed end up getting a hot drink and sitting in bed with a blanket and it really helped. At first I was overwhelmed and kept panicking as I didn't know how to deal with all of these emotions and the pressure coming from my family but I'm slowly starting to feel calmer about it.

PapaCoco: Thank you so much for your thoughts. I think that once again you are right about the narcissism. I'm finding it very hard to detect this because my first instinct is always to see the very best in people but in this case I am starting to see how wrong I was to keep believing my family only wanted the best for me. I'm not quite sure why she is creating all this trauma about the fact that I am struggling with depression (maybe she does indeed worry a bit about me, or she just needs to believe that she was a decent mom) but it did really hurt me how she kept giving this issue a strange twist, as if I was actually hurting her and causing her unnecessary worry that she didn't deserve. She also seemed angry that I hadn't told her about my mental illness even though I was quite open about it with some friends/acquaintances, however I didn't have the heart to tell her that I could never trust her to keep me save and that her reaction proved my point. What hurt the most, though, was the fact that once again she portrayed this as just another issue that I have and totally ignored that my depression and SI do indeed come from the abuse that she and dad put me through for years.
I am still not sure how to move on from here, so I hope I can get a little clearer about further actions when I see my therapist on Tuesday. However, I did start reading the book that you recommended a couple of times (the sociopath next door) and I am finding it eye-opening.
I don't really think that my parents belong quite in that category of sociopaths without conscience but their narcissism comes close enough. And I am starting to go through some of my past experiences at school/ work to see how many sociopaths I have encountered in the past and it feels strangely validating to find that there really was something bigger going on and I was not just being "too sensitive" as people always said.
So, thank you so much for the recommendation, it helps a lot.

[Armee]

Sounds very similar to what I went thru with my mom and I always only saw the good in other people and the bad in me. It's how we survived that type of household.

[Papa Coco]

Milkandhoney,

I'm glad to hear you're reading that book. It's one of my favorites. Like you, I called it "eye opening!" I also started to see how many narcissists I'd really been attached to over the years.

Dr. Stout mentions that for the purpose of the book's simplicity, she lumped all categories of narcissism into one word: Sociopath.  Before her groundbreaking education on how to spot and handle narcissists, I read In Sheep's Clothing by Dr. George Seamans. His book from the early 1990's called them "Disordered Characters".  I read another book, a REALLY fun one called Emotional Vampires by Albert J Bernstein.  No matter what we call these toxic people, they all use the same tricks out of the same toolbox.

A new, great source of education, is this YouTuber named Dr. Ramani. She's doing a great job of providing all sorts of eye-opening information on how these people are to be identified and handled.

No matter what we call them, they are toxic and they are all alike. ALL ALIKE and very easy to spot once you've started to learn the behaviors.

It doesn't matter what kind of gun I'm about to be shot with, ducking is always the best strategy. It also doesn't matter why someone is using the narcissist's toolbox on me. If someone is or isn't a "true" sociopath or true narcissist, or Borderline Personality Disorder, if they use the narcissists' toolbox, they are to be handled with same type of selfcare. Don't engage. Their end game is always the same: They appear to be the victim. They take what they can. They love no one. They insult anyone who is a threat to their sick grandiosity. They feel NO remorse for any sin they've ever committed or are committing now. Doesn't matter what diagnosis title they deserve. Doesn't matter what kind of gun they plan to shoot you with. Get away if you can.

My example is: She might not be a witch, but if she's wearing a black dress and holding out an apple for me to eat, I'll go ahead and decline the apple.

I'm so glad to hear you're educating yourself about these monsters. The more we understand them, the more we are able to rapidly spot them in a crowd and the more we are able to deflate their power...which btw, is ONLY the power of words, and that power ONLY works if anyone's listening.

[Armee]

(Thanks for including BPD with your discussion Papa Coco. I often feel I don't know...alone, neglected...when listening to experts talk about narcissism and the damage done. My mom wasn't a narcissist, she had Borderline Personality Disorder (and others). But the tricks and manipulations and resulting trauma to those stuck in the path are the exact same. Just the underlying motivation and triggers for the behavior are different and there's even more of the poor victim thing going on. )

[Hope67]

Hi Milkandhoney,
I also think you have every right to assert your boundaries, and I wish you strength in doing that.  Sending you a hug of support as well, if that's ok 
Hope