Cracked Ice's Recovery Journal

[Armee]

This path is so crooked and forked its hard to know where any of us is. Like chutes and ladders.

[paul72]

This path is so crooked and forked its hard to know where any of us is. Like chutes and ladders.

EXACTLY! 

[CrackedIce]

Ugh, I need to write in here more often.  Too many things floating in my mind.  Was hard to get away over xmas I guess.

Pre-xmas and leading into it, I was having a discussion with another c-ptsd support (we found each other on another site) about how the two of us seemed to be "less affected' compared to some others.  It was a question we mulled around a little, and I think it coincided with some of the reading I've been doing lately - the earlier the trauma starts in your life, the more affected may be by it.  There's a good breakdown of how developmental trauma affects the physical development of the nervous and hormonal systems in the book Healing Developmental Trauma by Laurence Heller, and Aline LaPierre (available on audible), so it makes sense that being put in that kind of position at a younger age would have a bigger effect on a person throughout their lifetime.

I've been feeling a bit of imposters syndrome on this forum, although I'm sure it's just the normal settling in for almost everyone who's joined the community here given that we all have a similar background.  It's nothing that anyone here has done, you all have been nothing but welcoming, but when it comes to reading others' posts and wanting to contribute support I usually run into a roadblock of "what could you add to this conversation that won't be said by someone who's had a more similar experience / they have an established relationship with?"  Bleh, this is starting to sound like a sympathy post.  None needed, just trying to get the thoughts out of my head.

Over the holidays the usual "I'm a spectator here" feelings when attending the wife's family functions.  A similar situation where no one on her side of the family is unwelcoming, but this is the time of year relatives get together and discuss the "good ol' days" - I generally just sit there and smile, as I had a very different experience of my childhood and can't really contribute.  The odd time I'm pulled in it's usually startling me out of my malaise and I give a quick answer that doesn't provide much opportunity for follow up - another defense.

Another feeling over the holidays is a sense of "going along for the ride".  My wife is trying to include as much as possible, but I tend towards "make sure everyone else is happy" so often when she asks me what I'd like to do over the break I can't think of anything that wouldn't be an inconvenience to others, so I generally just say 'whatever you guys wanna do'.  Another example of being so far removed from being able to express needs / be taken seriously in my childhood that I kind of coast along while life is happening all around me, waiting for the chance to be alone and safe.  Long holidays like this generally leave me feeling emotionally and physically drained, excited to get back to work where I can recuperate.  It's almost worse this year because of all the self-help and therapy I've been doing - I can now observe myself doing it, but still am not in a place where I feel like I can do anything about it.

Today I'm reminded of my other most common symptom of C-PTSD - attachment disorder (the first being the constant fawning to the point of exhaustion and only feeling safe when left alone).  I fairly often struggle with trying to resolve attachment needs against my fawning defense of not wanting to upset or go against my wife's desires (whether they're perceived or otherwise).  When the issue comes up, I'm in a constant debate in my head where one side is arguing that it's perfectly healthy for me to want to be intimate with my wife, where the other (much stronger) side insists that she's not interested in me physically / being a horny jerk makes me no better than the celebrities who get caught treating women like garbage / my needs are the reason our marriage is suffering / I'm acting this way because of a disorder / etc.  It also clashes with my other C-PTSD symptoms like being unable to express needs, surrendering boundaries, fawning, feeling unwanted, etc.

Any time she expresses the desire to be alone when I'm seeking connection I more often than not involuntarily fall into a rejection shame spiral which looks like all those reasons above, which bends my external mood to more of a withdrawn / disassociate state (as I'm spending so much energy inside my head).  She sees this, and connects the dots that it's due to the earlier slight, and then gets resentful that she can't say no without wrecking our day, which feeds into the shame feedback loop and makes me feel even worse.  It's got to the point where we sleep in separate floors of the house and I do my best to avoid the situation as much as I can because of how it often ends up.

And due to my inability to express my needs or stick up for myself (preferring fawn over conflict) she's basically set an unwritten 30 minute window twice a week where intimacy may have the opportunity to happen.  Which, as you can imagine, makes everything worse - pressure to act within that window, if it doesn't happen then there's no opportunity for it to happen later, interruptions (which happen often with kids / pets in the way) feel catastrophic, etc.  Any time I even feel a need for intimacy there's so much baggage that comes with it that I have started disassociating intimacy and love - years earlier I intertwined the two so closely that rejection felt much, much worse than it does now.  Almost as a self defense against further abandonment, I can now limit the effect of rejection to a physical aversion rather than an outright rejection of my person.

It's a sensitive topic as I didn't really receive any sort of relationship modeling growing up (my parents certainly weren't a shining example) and no one wants to talk about it - my therapist tends to avoid the topic, my wife either brushes it off or gets self-conscious or upset if I try to bring it up, and my only real input is either media (which is hyper-sexualized) or social media (which tends to only highlight offenders).  We're in couples counselling, which seems like the obvious place to bring it up, but even then I'm hesitant to because I know she'll be embarrassed (or worse) by the topic.

Bleh.  Well it feels good to get it down on paper rather than have it float around in my head, but still not great.  These feelings generally get worse when we're on a holiday together, as there's less to distract me and more time together.  Generally typing my thoughts out help me solidify what a future conversation with her may look like, so hopefully I can have a honest conversation about things in the near future.

[CrackedIce]

Another bad day today.  Wife was on edge more than usual, likely because of my distance yesterday.  She went off on me a few times, to the point where I was a crying mess in my bedroom.  During my crying spell, I made three realizations:

1) When she gets randomly frustrated at me, it makes me feel like my stepfather's frustration towards me (and subsequent abuse) was justified
2) When she gets angry for me for not doing enough / doing the wrong things, I interpret it as invalidating my fawn response, which makes me feel unsafe
3) I am again in a situation where one of the few people who're supposed to love me, offers anger instead

My therapist would be saying "ask yourself, is it 100% true?"  And no, it's not, but in the moment it sure as h* feels like it is.

My wife came down later to talk about things, and I told her about those three points as well as more about C-PTSD (I don't think I ever told her the formal definition of it or how it affects me).  She more or less 'yes, but...' her way through the conversation, which left me feeling invalidated as well.  As is our usual dance I'm sure tomorrow she'll apologize and so will I, and everything will be closer to fine than not, but yesterday and today have not been fun.

Can't wait to get back to work.

[milkandhoney11]

I'm sorry, CrackedIce.
Your realisations sound very valid and very important. It's always good to know that we are not actually terrified/ frustrated/ etc. of the people in our immediate surroundings but by the incredible trauma that is stirred up when they trigger us somehow. I hope that knowing this will make it a little bit easier to deal with your wife's anger in the future but it sounds like a difficult situation to be in and I understand why you might wish to escape that. You really do not deserve to be treated in this way.
I wished people were a little bit more understanding of the effects that CPTSD is having on us. I know that someone who has never experienced abuse will never quite understand how long-lasting and all-encompassing the trauma really is, but I am just hoping for a tiny bit more empathy and awareness.
I have found very often that when I reveal things like that they either try to silence me because they don't want me to bother them with things like that or they treat the trauma as some kind of excuse - and either way it just makes me feel unworthy and invalidated.
But the trauma effects are very real. It does not only affect our behaviours and the way we see the world, it actually changes the structures of our brains and so it is incredibly difficult to change the way we react to situations like that.
So, please, try to not feel too bad about yourself. I know it's easier said than done but I think that your emotions are very real and very valid and you deserve a more empathetic understanding, rather than constant "yes, buts..."

[Armee]

I truly hope the couples counseling opens up room for more compassion and understanding from your wife. 

[Papa Coco]

CrackedIce,

I feel your pain my brother.

I've been trying to respond to this post for two days now and keep getting tangled up in my own reasoning. The reasons for why our wives struggle with our C-PTSD are many. Sensitive, emotionally struggling men just have this problem all the time. We marry people who love us for being sensitive and emotional, but when we struggle with it, they sort of want us to be more of a John Wayne.

Just know, I struggle with a similar relationship too.

Coco and I have never tried couple's therapy. If you do try that, I hope to hear that it helps.

I'm happy to share more details of how we make it work, but not here and not now.  For now I just want to share that my wife and I have a similar struggle going as you and yours do now. And because of that, I'm on your side, and always willing to dive deeper into the hows and whys of it, but only if anyone asks.

[CrackedIce]

M&H, thanks for the validation.  It's difficult to break out of the internal dialog / fear response mid-argument, but I'm trying my best.  I find instead of freezing as I have done in the past, I can move into more of an "unemotional, but responsive" state where I'm able to say my piece and respond but sound very detached and insincere despite my best efforts (which W doesn't appreciate either).  At least I'm communicating, so that's a good step forward I think.

Armee, thanks for the well wishes.  We've done our third session with our counsellor, he's pretty decent but I don't feel like we've really got to the heart of any of our issues yet.  It's hard for me to speak up at the sessions as a sense of shame usually overtakes me when I'm trying to explain my feelings or behaviours.  Hopefully with more sessions and built up trust it won't be as bad going foward.

Papa Coco, you definitely know where I'm coming from.  I constantly struggle with the conflict between "well, you obviously saw something in me when I was functioning as a fawn / unknown CPTSD victim" and the "everything you're asking me to do / change is extremely difficult for me".  I appreciate hearing that I'm not the only one in this boat, and any advice or experience you're able to share in the future will be more than welcome

---

Well, shortly after that last post my wife came down and apologized and reconciled with me.  We have a pretty regular dance of me putting some new information forward, her reacting badly to it, and then her coming back a few hours later with a clear head about the issue.  I think all the things I was explaining with CPTSD eventually sank in and she realized that it's not exactly an easy hill to climb some days.  The past few days have been much better between us.

I've been listening to Healing Developmental Trauma the last few days, and while it focuses on trauma in the first few years (about ages 0 - 5) it's been an interesting read so far.  Right now I'm listening to the breakdown of the attachment disorder and the "connection survival style" that develops from it, and how trauma even pre-birth has been found to have an affect on children.  I don't have any real knowledge of my life before the age of 5, having been no contact with my FOO for more than 20 years at this point, but the way they describe the symptoms of the attachment disorder and the fact that I was born to a 17 year old single mother who's had her share of FOO issues I think it's safe to assume that the first few years of my life weren't exactly peachy.

One of the key tenants of the chapter is how early stage trauma sets a child up to be re-traumatized in later stages; if your primary emotion / psychological response while gestating in the womb is a freeze/contract state due to your mother's stress / neglect / etc, then your body is already primed to react and retain that state going forward.  Because of that, you may be harder to soothe in your infancy, which (compounded with issues your mother likely already has) may lead to more neglect / abuse, and so on.  It's a crappy cycle to be caught in, and as infants we obviously can't do anything about it.

Another thing I noticed today is how uneasy others can make me while I'm trying to relax.  One thing that's really hit home for me in the last few weeks, and particularly over vacation, is how much I need alone time.  A realization I came to a few weeks ago was the hypervigilance I have when my wife or others are around - I constantly look for things I can do to look busy or clean or make life easier for others.  This is even more apparent when she's upset at me - I almost instantly start walking around the room looking for something to pick up or fold or put away.  The result of this is that I don't ever really truly relax until the late evening, when the kids are in bed, the wife's in the bath, and I'm alone by myself.

Realizing this helped me explain that whenever my wife comes downstairs to talk or ask me something once I've started this night "relax routine" I'm almost always agitated by it - it's because I'm suddenly responding to the intrusion by spitefully switching back into fawn mode.  It also explains why, when my wife asked me and the kids what we wanted to do this xmas holiday break, I couldn't really come up with anything - the thing I want to do, to actually relax and recoup a bit from work during the break, is be alone.  Of course, I can't actually say that, so I instead offer "I dunno, whatever you guys wanna do", and by the end of the holiday I'm counting the minutes until I can go back to my work-from-home desk.

Maybe a part of the issue I have identifying and communicating needs is that my needs generally don't involve or require others.  I know it's a side effect of C-PTSD and not having grown up with the experience of healthy, safe relationships, but it doesn't make it any less of a thing.

Anyways, hope everyone has a fun and safe new years!  I'm also going to try to check into the site less often - I often read everyone else's new posts when I'm unable to respond, and then forget to do so later.  Hoping by having a set time I can actually set aside some time to be more involved with others' posts.

[Hope67]

Hi Crackedice,
I would like to wish you and your wife the best for 2023, and just say that I'm glad you've found your way to the forum, and that you're here.  I think the Healing developmental trauma information you are sharing in your journal is really interesting, and I relate to what you're saying about relaxing, and how hypervigilance happens in such circumstances. 

Seem to have lost my words now, but want to wish you the best for 2023.

Hope 

[rainydiary]

CrackedIce, I resonate with the need for a lot of alone time.  I also struggle to communicate that need with my husband.  The only time I am able to genuinely relax is when I am on my own in a place I feel comfortable.  I also resonate with being curious about my early life and the responses I was primed to use given what I know of my family history.  It is all connected.  I hope that you do find moments of ease before returning to work.

[dollyvee]

Hi Crackedice,

I'm sorry you're going through those difficulties with your wife. It sounds very stressful to be caught in that cycle. It sounds as if you are sharing with her bit by bit what has happened emotionally for  you in the past and she is able to relate and empathize with that.

One of the side effects of never having your needs met as a child is that you grow up expecting them not to be met. This could be why it feels better to be on your own or that you don't really feel like you have needs that include others. It could also be that it wasn't safe for you to express any of your needs. I'm not sure if this was already clear in your post or not. I remember feeling nothing about myself for a long time. What did I want, how did I feel? I had no idea because I was brought up not to recognize or even think about those things. It was just like a deadness and I looked up to people who could articulate their opinions on things. How could they do that?!  I felt like I was selfish for having needs, saying no etc. I still feel like I'm being "difficult" a lot of the time and will throw things out for reassurance from people because I don't know.

Sending you support and a happy 2023,
dolly

[CrackedIce]

Thanks for popping in Hope & RainyDiary!

Dollyvee, I think you hit the nail on the head (and a lot of that is reinforced by reading through Pete Walker and John Bradshaw).  Even before my PA stepfather I was in a single-parent family with low income, so I imagine as early as possible I learned to be self sufficient if only to be less of a burden on my mother.  Once my SF entered the picture and made emoting (or even just stating needs) unsafe it just further reinforced my retreat into myself.  "What do I want?" "selfish for having needs" are things that have been coming up for me through my therapy and I still struggle with them today. 

The reassurance angle is interesting as well - I think I've mostly convinced myself that I don't need outward recognition from others, but at the same time there's a few distinct events I remember doing in my adult life where I more or less begged for validation from my bosses / friends / partners.  A part of what I've been reading in Healing Developmental Trauma presents the idea of opposite personas that evolve from trauma - for example, you can have a self-image of someone stoic, strong, who doesn't need the support of others, but at the same time have an inner turmoil about the lack of validation, acceptance, and rejection can hit you really hard when it happens.  Lots of other examples of counter personas in the book as well for other 'survival styles'.

---

Today was an overall good day, took it easy for once since the entire family was exhausted from staying up late (kids included!)  My wife was too tired to be busy around the house, so I didn't feel nearly as guilty as I usually do for taking it easy.

I noticed two things the last two days:

1) when I'm exhausted (i.e. late in the day), the fawn response kind of fades away and I can be more of my silly / playful self - noticed this when it was past 10 PM with the kids still awake.  We were able to play board games and I really enjoyed myself.  I think I just got to a point where I was too tired to try to maintain the fawn façade.

2) when I'm tired (i.e. not enough sleep) it's much easier to fall into an emotional flashback / shame spiral.  I caught myself this afternoon falling into the shame spiral trap but at the same time (likely because most of the day was so relaxed) I still had the mental faculties to notice and try to break out of it.  It took a bit of concerted effort, and going out for supper was enough of a distraction to break me out of it.  I actually tried one of the exercises suggested in John Bradshaw's Healing the Shame that Binds You - audibly telling myself 'stop!'  I don't think it necessarily worked (or if it did, not for that long), but it felt somewhat good to take steps in a positive direction.

Regarding point 1, and something I shared with my wife, I noticed when I'm in a relaxed state I often act quite childlike.  Almost like my brain is reverting back to my 8 year old self to try to continue development from when the trauma took over.  I'm usually more silly, playful, have a childlike voice, all the things I can imagine my younger self would do and want.  This state doesn't happen very often, but when it does it's a good, genuine feeling of 'being myself'.  Sometimes later I feel somewhat ashamed of this behaviour, but I imagine that's the inner critic getting control of the steering wheel again.

Edit: I forgot to mention the latest reading I've been doing!  Healing Developmental Trauma had a good breakdown of the "splitting of selves" that happens to children in traumatic environments.  TW for abuse/rage:

- The natural, biological response to abuse is rage; getting yourself physically geared up to defend yourself from attack
- For a child being abused by their parent, this directly conflicts with the core psychological need for attachment.  It's also often unsafe to express the rage (usually invites more abuse)
- Because of this, the child will often 'split off' the parts of their psyche that respond to trauma/abuse in order to maintain their core attachment needs.  The rage psyche is split off and hidden/repressed.
- With the rage removed, the attachment psyche needs to justify the abuse.  "I'm the bad one", "I'm unlovable", "There's something wrong with me" - development of the inner critic
- When the abuse is over, the attachment psyche seeks out attachment; the child cries or acts out (fight), removes themselves from the situation (flight), stops emoting (freeze), or looks for things to make their parents love them (fawn)
- With repeated abuse and/or the lack of 'closure' to the initial defensive response, the 4F response(s) gets ingrained as a default behaviour.  It becomes dangerous to seek attachment, so the mind downplays its importance (although it never truly goes away)

All laid out like that it makes total sense where these things come from.  This lines up with some of the Internal Family Systems / protector / inner child work my therapist and I have been doing the past year as well.

I still haven't done my therapy homework from last session, which was writing a letter to myself from the perspective of my inner child. I think I've convinced myself that I need to read some materials on how to channel your inner/younger self before I can attempt it, whether that's true or not I'm not sure.  I was planning on getting to that material once I was done my current audiobook, but I might short-circuit that to prioritize the activity so I can book my next therapy session.

I'm going to start writing down journal ideas throughout the day in a doc on my phone so that I don't forget what I want to emote/share here

Hope everyone had a good new years day!

[dollyvee]

HI Ownside,

I read your previous post about not responding right away and I think do whatever is right for you. I can't always respond right away after reading something as sometimes it just feels like too much.

My t and I have done a lot of work around validation although I don't think I necessarily always realized it. What she mentions a lot is that it's important to have had a witness growing up for the things that happened to validate my experience and what happened I think as there was no one to do it. When I'm looking for assurance from other people, I think it's that validation in a way. It's gotten better with therapy and as I begin to trust myself.

To me it seems understandable that you have some blocks (?) if it's the right word writing the letter to your inner child. I can imagine that connecting to your inner child is a pretty emotional experience. I think it took me years in therapy to start laying the mental groundwork before I could do the emotional groundwork in a way that was "safe' to do so. Emotions, for me, were also something that wasn't safe to have as a child, or were met or attended to by my m. I think it's hard for me to feel like my world is not falling apart or go into negative thinking cycles when they come up. This is my experience and please disregard if it doesn't fit/make sense etc.

Thank for the reminder about the Bradshaw book. It's been on my list and sounds like it is a worthwhile read.

Sending you support,
dolly

edit: Cracked Ice! not Ownside...maybe ADD and lack of attention to detail 

[CrackedIce]

Hey everyone!  It's been awhile since I've wrote, but figured tonight was a good chance to jot things down.

Shortly after my last post I had a really down day.  It was the last day of our holiday before my wife and I went back to work, and it all kind of came to a head - the arguments we had been having, the lack of affection the entire break, how fruitless it felt the therapy work I was doing felt... it more or less ruined my day, and then I felt even more guilty about it because it impacted my family's last day with all of us together as well.  The wife and I had another argument about it in the evening, which was even worse.

Then, something happened.  After she had gone upstairs, I broke down crying.  Straight up bawling.  Shame spiral and everything, curled up in my bed, sobbing, thinking how all of this was my fault because of not being able to handle my crappy childhood.  I'm not sure what compelled me, but I felt compelled to go upstairs to my wife's bedroom and ask for her comfort.  She wrapped me up in a comforter and held me until I calmed down, my head against her beating heart.  In retrospect it felt like some sort of touch therapy, going back to the neglected childhood roots and lack of touch / comfort / holding as a small child. 

I think something flipped in my head at that point.  The last few months (year or more really) my wife has been the aggressor in my mind - the only person in my life that yells at me, who gets mad at me, who says I'm frustrating, all of those negative things I've spent my life trying to avoid.  Really, that's only a fraction of the time, but those small moments are so triggering that it really overrides everything else.  But at that moment, in her arms, listening to her heartbeat as she was calming me down, she was the opposite of that.  A partner, a support, someone who cares.

Since then (and for the past week) things have been much better between us.  I've felt less on edge around her, we've had long conversations where I wasn't just trying to say whatever I needed to say to get out of there, spent time together, etc.  We've even been able to do some budgeting and long-term planning without getting upset with each other!  I'm not saying the next time she gets mad I'm not going to revert back to my fawn/freeze default, but this last week has been great.

I've started reading John Bradshaw's 'Homecoming' book, which centers around his Inner Child workshops, in an attempt to get me in tune with my own inner child in order to complete my therapy homework.  I've put off talking to my therapist since I kind of want to get that done before we meet again, but I've also been somewhat distracted getting back into work / kids to school / kids' activities / etc.  What I've read so far has been promising.  There's a small yes/no questionnaire at the end of chapter 1 of about 60 questions where if you answer yes to at least 10 of them you've likely got some inner child work to do - I hit 23 :/

[rainydiary]

I appreciate you sharing about that experience and am grateful taking the chance to seek comfort was supportive.