Discouraging Experiences in 12 step groups

[natureluvr]

I'm almost afraid to post this, because I know there are avid supporters of 12 step groups.  Please take this as just one person's experience - mine.  I'm not trying to bash or attack 12 step groups. 

I got quite a lot of help from Adult Children of Alcoholics groups in the late 80's and early 90's.  I'm still deeply grateful to them for all their support, and all that I learned from them. 

I tried going back several years ago, and has a less than good experience.  I have experienced a lot of pressure to get a sponsor, and seen this happen to other people, too.  At the beginning of the meeting, the chairperson asked all persons willing to sponsor to raise their hand.  One woman raised hers.  I recognized her as being a long time member that I had seen in the groups many years ago.  So, after the meeting I approached her and asked her to sponsor me.  She hesitated, then said "yes".  I said that I needed a sponsor who was kind and gentle.  Her reply was that she herself needed a tough sponsor.  (I wish I had seen that as a red flag).  I also mentioned something about my FOO, and her reply was "ah, you have not forgiven your family".   Another red flag, rather judgmental on her part. 

Anyway, I met with her and gave her a basic and brief summary of my childhood, and the abuse and neglect.  The entire time, she was cool and dismissive, and invalidated me and gaslit me.  No empathy or compassion.  She made excuses for my mother's severe neglect of me.  I was so turned off by all this, that I never called her again, and I never went back to that meeting. 

It's not the first time I've come across sponsors who were cold and dismissive.  Another one told me, when I was going through a very difficult time of caring for a sick infant for many months, said in a cold tone of voice "you just have to accept this".  She offered no warmth or support. 

I also have a hard time with the idea of making amends with my abusers.  I did that, per the 12 steps, and it just became a repeat of the fawning type of behavior I have done with my abusive narcissist mother.  I don't feel I owe my abusers any type of amends, at all. 

I no longer feel safe going to these groups for support.  I'm very glad for this online support group.  I wonder if others here have had similar experiences? 

[Blueberry]

Hi natureluvr,

I read your post quite a while ago and want to finally write that there were quite a few years when I got a lot out of 12 Step groups but that's no longer the case. So you're not alone.

In my case it was in 2001 - 2010, though not the whole time. I was in Emotions Anonymous, plus Overeaters Anon (tho in my country it's for all types of eating disorders) and when I could manage ISA then I tried again maybe 2012-14 CODA but they don't do anything for me anymore. The reverse in fact.

I did have sponsor for a while but we ended that. It did help or she helped me rather but after a while she admitted that she tended to agree to sponsor people who are basket cases. She didn't phrase it quite that way but that's what she meant and I don't think that's what I am, I didn't think so even then. I don't hold a grudge against her though

I'm very glad for OOTS too

[Kizzie]

I'm sorry I missed this too Natureluvr, but I have also found the various 12 Step programs problematic for us (survivors). I'm so sorry you ended up with a tough sponsor rather than someone compassionate and caring.  Some people take the whole taking responsibility for your behaviour literally and can't quite see that in the case of abuse/neglect we need to do the opposite from that.  We truly need to see that damage was done to us at the hands of another or others and that we must put the responsibility on them instead of taking responsibility for what happened to us.  We were not bad or deserving of abusive/neglectful behaviour in any way, we just had the bad luck of being raised or married to someone who hurt us because of their own pain.

I personally think (and this is just my opinion of course) that the 12 step programs for AA or ACOA can do us more damage than good because of the requirement to make amends to our abusers as you say.  No, just no.

I stand with you in how you feel and I hope you find the warmth and comfort and support here that you and the rest of us need so much.   

[natureluvr]

Thanks Blueberry and Kizzie for your feedback on this.  It's very validating!  Validation is very helpful to me. 

I completely agree, the responsibility for most of our issues lies at the feet of our abusers.  At least for me it does.  I've heard many in the 12 step groups say that the 12 steps is great for all problems, but I tend not to agree.  It could be good for addictions, and codependency, but not CPTSD and trauma.

[Kizzie]

I'm glad that you saw our posts even though they were a bit after you posted.  Sometimes we get focused on certain areas of the forum like the journals and don't respond to posts in other areas as quickly.  Anyway, I'm glad it was validating.     

[Blueberry]

I've heard many in the 12 step groups say that the 12 steps is great for all problems, but I tend not to agree.  It could be good for addictions, and codependency, but not CPTSD and trauma.

I don't agree either that the 12 Steps are great for all problems. They're certainly not great for all people all the time. I know that if I went to 12 Steps groups again, I'd eventually feel like blowing a fuse. Not all my Parts are happy in 12 Steps and I don't feel like shutting my Parts down in recovery anymore. imho addictive and codependent behaviour are trauma reactions in my case and probably in lots of cases and I don't want to disacknowledge that anymore. It might be different if I had a drug or alcohol addiction because imho it would be way more important to get that addiction under control than other addictive behaviour of mine.

In addition, there's the simple fact that Bill and co. came up with the 12 Steps in - what? - 1930 (?) and based the program on medical and psychological knowledge of the time. When I was in ISA (Incest Survivors Anon.) - a 12 Step program that was founded later, I can't remember when exactly - you could tell that it reflected the ideas in general psychological treatment of the time, which are now partially out-of-date, at least in my country.

I found the emphasis on the addiction I wasn't recovering from kept me (or helped keep me) in a self-critical mindset. I don't know if it has that effect on everybody. In ISA iirc we were powerless over our victim mindset and I constantly felt bad at all the symptoms in me that I increasingly discovered that supported the theory I was in victim mindset. Whereas a lot of it was probably just unresolved trauma. imho.

Yes, I'm glad our posts were validating for you, naturluvr. I find validation here on OOTS very helpful.

[Kizzie]

I think what I've come to see too BB is that people who are addicted to alcohol or other substances/behaviours get there through pain they don't know how to manage and to me that speaks to needing understanding, support, compassion and so on - like us (relational trauma survivors), things they may never have had.

Gabor Mate speaks to the connection between addiction and trauma.  Readers of this post can just Google him if you want to hear his thoughts, there are tons of videos available.

[SteveM]

Natureluvr,

I am so so sorry you were treated that way, its inexcusable!

Thank you so much for having the courage to write your truth, it helped me greatly today.

I need to be with people that understand CPTSD and I believe the only people that can truly understand and relate are people with CPTSD.

Thank You Again
Steve M

[Ogdru]

Hey Naturelovr, I just want to 2nd your thoughts here I feel very much the same way and have been in very similar circumstance with 12 step groups.

Going off of my own experiences, They are great for getting clean and figuring out how to stay clean, but are not equipped and usually very misinformed as to anything else mental health wise. I've come across a lot of mental health professionals who have quite a lot of issues with the various 12 step programs but they frequently have to hold their tongue, cause its the 12 steps. They done a lot for me as well, but if you reach a point where you can stay sober & clean and know you will stay as such its fine to leave those programs as you move on to try and focus on other things the program isn't equipped for.

[jimrich]

Hi all:
I went to a lot of 12 step meeting around L.A. and found good ones, bad ones and in between.  When there was bad behavior or offenses, I just walked away and moved on.  I was very inquisitive and adventurous, so I went to every kind of meeting I could.  I found the most help at ACOA, CODA and INCEST SURVIVORS. I somehow was able to spot red flags early on so the offensive, "old-timers" did not get to me.  I heard lots of ugly stories about Sponsors and Therapist so I never had one, although i had a few run ins with unfriendly therapists.  I did my amends BUT only to those who deserved it. I learned a lot in 12 step and see that ACA has blossomed a lot since the early 2000s.   It was obvious right from the start that I'd have to watch the tricky behaviors of other Survivors and stay alert for red flags or other tricky" stuff.  I have to say that the entire Recovery community did me more good than harm but harm was often nearby.  I had to deal with a few bullies and some two-faced members but that was also a training ground for me.  I probably offended and hurt a few Survivors as well but, it's a struggle to do what's right when one has been seriously damaged in early childhood.  I made amends where I could and have even found some moments of FORGIVENESS!!!!