Isolation

[Phoebes]

The longer I am in isolation the more I really like it. Or the more comfortable I have become. I know there's a lot of thought out there that isolation is some thing that needs to be fought against. I can understand that because it does become a pattern, a lifestyle, and very comfortable.

In recent weeks I've decided to make an effort to put myself out there a little more. I allowed a close friend to somewhat set me up with someone she has known for many years and has always thought we would be a match. However he got married years ago had kids etc.. He's been divorced now for a little while so she has revisited this idea. Well we met, got along, went on a long seemingly successful coffee date. He said he wanted to see me again but then never called or got in touch. I felt like I sort of made the move to set up the coffee date so I felt like it was his turn.  A close friend said that setting too many rules on the situation and that I should reach out to him. I disagree.

Then there's another person who I really like and I'm attracted to and would love to get to know better. He actually did ask me to do something which would have been my perfect date actually, but it was the same day I had some other commitment. He said that's OK we can do it again soon and then he never has called or reached out or anything. Thinking back to what my friend said, I texted him just to touch base and be friendly. He did respond but it was kind of flat and no mention of getting together.

I tend to think that my vibe is what kills these situations. I could be totally wrong and I know that. But sinking back into my isolation and life of solitude feels oh so good after these things happen. I was used to have lots of friends I would constantly be trying to do stuff with. I realized a few years ago it was me making all the effort so I've backed off of all that. I have a couple of friends who are 50-50 with me or something like that. We mostly get together once a week or months or a few weeks. Other than that I am alone with my dog,  and I like it. I can't imagine there being someone here in my space all the time. 

[rainydiary]

I prefer solitude also and also relate to the struggle of finding balance.

[dollyvee]

Hey Phoebes,

I really relate to this about dating. It's so hard for me. I go through the process of liking someone, having them go through all the walls of acceptance, then there's rejection and I become completely disillusioned with everything usually and stay isolated. One thing that I learned recently is that I'm fearful avoidant or disorganized attachement, which is both anxious and avoidant attachment styles. It's really changing the way I look at relationships and my behaviours to them. The idea of putting myself out there to people with some measure of vulnerability is terrifying to me, and am constantly looking for "threats" or danger (usually from rejection or abandonment) and that it ultimately ends up sabotaging any budding relationship. The thing is too, that I never saw this as negative. I was "protecting" myself and trying to do the best giving everything I had been through. I was of the mindset that someone should make the effort to try and understand these things about me but I guess it's not really their job to, and it left me alone confirming my belief that people aren't to be trusted. It's hard to change the idea that people will show up for you when they never have in the past. So, I tend to be happy in isolation too.

I'm just sharing if any of this might resonate because I think it's been another game changer for me. When I start confronting it, I can see this thinking goes really deep. There are a couple of good videos on fearful avoidant relationships by Heidi Priebe on youtube as a kind of introduction if you're interested. The one on limerance is also really interesting.

Hope things go well with the date guy. He sounds like maybe he was interested but maybe hesitant after you said you couldn't do it and maybe now thinks the ball is in your court so you have to ask him? But as per the above, I'm no expert haha.

Sending you support,
dolly

[Phoebes]

Thank you rainy and dolly. It helps to know others relate.

Rainy, balance eludes me. It sounds like a good idea on paper.

Dolly, I think I am anxious-avoidant or disorganized. I have read and watched quite a bit on this. I feel like I used to be more anxious but open and excited and out there and naïve. I attracted a lot of nice men when I was younger, but of course would choose the wrong ones. Now that I'm older I'm just exhausted of it all and disappointed in myself. But this guy that I like is actually someone who has resurfaced from my 20s, and he remembered quite a bit about me including my birthday! We didn't know each other super well back then and that is why I'd like to get to know him more authentically now. But whenever we text or talk I feel like my anxiety kicks in and I'm too much. And then of course I feel completely deflated and Overwhelmed with disappointment in myself. Dysregulated. That's a lot for just barely talking.

I just learned about Limerence a few months ago and that really resonated with me too. I don't think I go to the full-blown Limerence, but when I really like someone I do stay stuck on them for far too long, think if I'm just patient it will give things a chance, etc. then I think well if they really liked me they would make an effort. What is the balance? I think once I break past the initial anxiety I'm OK. But no one gets to know the real me because nothing can connect with how I am these days.

[Kizzie]

I just want to wish you well in terms of a possible relationship with this person from your past Phoebes.  We all deserve good relationships but they are an area that is understandably quite hard for us.  I personally think it's absolutely logical that none of us wants to be hurt like we were, but maybe what's not quite logical is our belief that we will always be hurt again and again. (You can tell I've been doing some CBT  )

I did just have one other thought that might be helpful. Maybe he is anxious too and relationships are somewhat difficult for him? If so it could be something you could talk authentically about once you get past the initial phase of getting to know one another again.  We tend to think it's just us who experience these feelings but I think there are more of "us" out there then we know. 

[Phoebes]

Thank you kizzie! See, this is something I could really understand in a person and empathize with. I do tend to think that once people realize my situation and my struggles they will hightail it and run away. I've never received understanding coming from someone else on that level. A level that I could very well give!

[Kizzie]

Right and when you think about the fact that you could give that kindness and understanding to someone else, it makes sense that some people can give that to you.  Maybe your friend from your past is one of those people?  Maybe not but maybe so.

[Phoebes]

Interesting! Thinking of it that way Softens the fear of reaching out a little bit.

[dollyvee]

But whenever we text or talk I feel like my anxiety kicks in and I'm too much. And then of course I feel completely deflated and Overwhelmed with disappointment in myself. Dysregulated. That's a lot for just barely talking.

Yep, yep, yep this is me 100%. Sometimes when I see this "flirtation" that's going on now, barely talking, it's like a switch flips and my attachment  goes wild and I'm pure anxiety, on high alert, looking for danger and the slightest rejection/humiliation, and of course those things are out there (as I seem to choose avoidant types). I'm trying to take a step back though, and tell myself that I'm safe, that no matter what I have my back, and if there is a rejection it doesn't say anything about my worth. What is helping too is reading other peoples' experiences of being FA on the attachment theory subreddit. It's really opening my eyes to how FA behaviours can play out that I wasn't even aware of.

I just learned about Limerence a few months ago and that really resonated with me too. I don't think I go to the full-blown Limerence, but when I really like someone I do stay stuck on them for far too long, think if I'm just patient it will give things a chance, etc. then I think well if they really liked me they would make an effort. What is the balance? I think once I break past the initial anxiety I'm OK. But no one gets to know the real me because nothing can connect with how I am these days.

In the video she posted on limerance, she does a really good job of explaining how when we are limerant (and thinking obsessively) there is something that we want from the other person, a need that we should (i don't know if should is right) be meeting for ourselves in some way. I realized with this guy that it was about security and how I felt he was going to provide some security in my life. I think I mentioned this in my journal but there was a guy that was "into me" at work and I overheard a conversation about it. So, the next week while we were together I became frustrated and hurt that he didn't make a move. When I look back on it now, I noticed the times that he came over to sit with me but how there was another woman that I felt was interested in him, and I didn't want any drama (this is mom stuff I think that I'm going to do some EMDR on, other women sabotaging my relationships or the idea of it), so I sort of stood out of the way and tried to put them together. When I look back on it now, I see that I wasn't putting myself out there in any way but protecting me (and the whole fear/drama with my m comes into play). I don't know if this resonates with you but it's really blowing my mind how I never noticed these things and would wonder why I was never in a relationship.

I think Kizzie put it in a much more articulate way what I was trying to say - that maybe he's nervous too about the date being turned down and is anxious about getting hurt.

I really hope it goes well for you Phoebes and I know how hard it is to break out of the way our brains frame things sometimes. 

dolly

[Kizzie]

 

[Phoebes]

I can relate to that a lot, dolly. After I read this yesterday, I started thinking about why I have in a way been Limerent about this guy for a while. First of all, he is able to really express himself. I don't care for Facebook because I have a very hard time expressing myself in that way. He is very forthcoming with his views and experiences, but in kind of a funny way that's not offputting. He's also one of the only people that I share his views that I know. Then he also posts other things and when he adds music to them it is like we have the same obscure taste in music. But the big clincher is, he is a very successful and amazing artist. Something I struggle with but felt was my calling in life. Some thing I still want to do and make happen but struggle to express myself and really get started.

I thought it was because I feel like we have so much in common, but since you said that I'm realizing maybe it's that he is the embodiment of what at my core I know I am or could be or could have been if I were able. Interesting. He's also very kind an open. I struggle to be open. So I feel like when I am open it comes across as forced or stressed in some way.

Like you said to there is often a lot of issues tied into my behavior and feelings that make me want to crawl back into my hole. For me this one has to do with my dad I think. My dad has always said if a man likes you he would be calling you and knocking down your door. If they're not it means they don't want you. My dad is also a successful artist, but has been critical and opinionated about my art. That's a whole other story.

So on the one hand I'm so attracted and interested in this person, but on the other hand many of my discomfort and fears come out just thinking about these things. It doesn't make me want to be with someone that I am less attracted to or have less in common with, so I really wish I could make some sort of connection.

[dollyvee]

Honestly, it's so hard for me to get to the core of this thinking, which is then complicated by putting up boundaries, and to pick out what is my intuition and what is "FA" thinking. In the Fearful Avoidant subreddit someone commented that being loved feels so foreign to us that it's like we're wired for rejection. So, love feels off and somehow we're more familiar/comfortable with rejection. It's sounds so crazy but I feel like it's true for me. I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop where I'm on the lookout for the slightest sign of betrayal, and in doing so I think it stops me from opening up and becoming vulnerable, creating that connection. I would also rather just say forget it as well so I don't have to deal with those feelings, which basically feel like I'm in a life or death situation when it comes up, like my whole body is on alert for imminent death or something.

I'm hoping that it gets better by being able to communicate what I'm feeling and knowing my needs and feelings. Honestly, as hard as this has been the past little while to go through those emotions when they come up, I think it has started a better relationship with my self where I feel like I'm maybe showing up better for myself and not as dependent on someone else's view of me for my self worth as I would have been in the past. It's also really hard to step outside this thinking and show up for the other person as they are, and not this fantasy of what I need them to be, which I think creates a solid relationship.

That's interesting that you're considering a man who is also a successful artist like your dad, one who has been critical of you in the past , and maybe the similarities are bringing some anxieties to the surface? Like he will criticize you too, or not show up for you? To be honest, I've been thinking about my dad a lot more since this connection began and I would always push away people when they mentioned the father wound, or "daddy issues," but here I am going over the relationship with my father now in more depth.

You can make a connection with this person but I guess maybe it's a case of becoming aware of what is FA thinking, limerance, and trying to manage the anxieties that come along with those? I'm really struggling with this myself and the desire to shut down, deactivate and not be vulnerable is so strong. It's like a sneak attack in my brain and then of course I'm scared that that will be too much for someone etc.

[Phoebes]

I've been chewing on this response, dolly..a lot. At the same time I've had some good growth lately, feeling more peaceful and free in moments of understanding and letting go, I also have had some interesting developments..

I had completely let go of the person we were talking about..this is something I am trying to learn to do is release any and all needy energy, and return the need to myself..I was incorporating what you were saying as well, about this personas talents, my dad, etc...just really trying to shift and feeling a major shift!

Then, out of the blue HE reached out to me, asking me to do something! I could not help but think letting go of this needy or Limerence energy helped that happen, and how that could mean this energy thing is definitely a thing. I felt this for a long time with my mom. Anytime I finally release wishing or hope, or thinking about reconnecting in someway, she would reach out to me in a way that would remind me things have not changed. Very interesting in the energetic and/or spiritual realm.

Anyway, I thought of you because on the one hand, it was a great chance to apply all of the things. And we did have a fun, natural easy time and it was a great time. There were mentions of future things we were going to do together. On the other hand, the next day I felt that I got anxious and talk too much about superficial things or minutia. I tend to feel like I talk too much, and I know that it is my anxiety or my wanting to be social since I don't really know how to do that very well. And I worry that well about everything.

So it got to the point of getting kind of depressed the day after, getting a migraine. I try to be the observer and just think that it's OK. I can't presume what he thinks, and what he thinks really is none of my business. I did OK, we had a good time, and this is really a lot to come out of isolation and go out with a man I have a long wanted to do this with. So, he seemed to have a good time, was very sweet and had a good energy. Absolutely zero red flags so far. And I am very in tune with red flags let me tell you. If there is one thing I will do is not ignore red flags. Now he may have seen red flags in me!

The last thing is with my feeling that I talk too much about my Noosha and my deflation the next day, all of these feelings rush in of if we get to know each other how will he feel about me being estranged from my family, and many of the friends I used to have. One of those friends is someone he went to school with and his brother is close friends with. It's a minor concern but he is close to his parents and from what I can tell this all would be very foreign to him. And that is a lot. Anyway I'm getting ahead of myself but I am thrilled that he reached out and we went out and had a great time . I thought it may just be as buddies but he insisted on picking me up and I don't know I think it was a bit of a date.

[Phoebes]

Oh! One more thing I was going to mention. At the end of the night he came in and saw all of my unfinished art and stuff laying around.. I had thought about putting it all away in case he came in, but, I don't want to adjust myself for anyone I am very hyper aware of not trying to manipulate a situation. I never saw myself as manipulative before, but I have been known to adjust myself in a codependent way. I like hide my unfinished art so someone won't criticize it. So that was sort of a big deal for me to choose to leave it out. He didn't comment on any of it other than thought my space was really neat. No criticism came and that felt pretty nice, But also allowed him to see me where I'm at and make his own conclusion whether or not he likes what he sees.

[Kizzie]

That's absolutely awesome Phoebes!      I'm sorry you had the self-doubt afterward but that's CPTSD isn't it and to be expected, at least for a while. 

It's reassuring indeed that he reached out to you and there were hints of getting together in the future so he definitely likes you and that's worth remembering when that self-doubt does rise up. You said he is sweet and has good energy so I doubt seriously he is looking at you with a critical eye and judging you.  Not everyone is like our abusers thankfully but I know we tend to remain fearful we will get hurt again because it's so hard to bear.  People like him don't usually hurt other people though.

Good job leaving out your art work, something inside has shifted from the sounds of it so