Sudden call from dad

[Phoebes]

My dad and I are not NC per se, but there is commonly months between communications, and he lives far away. There's been some weird stuff with Christmas I've recently written about, etc..I've felt ever since a couple of years ago after having a face to face conversation that therein ended his effort to have any sort of relationship whatsoever ever. I've been severely depressed off and on over this, feeling I am actually grieving his loss while he is still alive.

It is something that is often weighing heavy on me, between deep sadness and anger. He tends to reach out to my siblings with grandkids but not me, keeping with his treatment of me as a "thing" of sorts.

Now, out of the blue, I got a call. I panicked and did not pick up thinking I am not prepared to talk to him now, as I imagined it was about his recent boundary breaking request that I am not up for. He left a message as if nothing has ever been wrong and just seeing how I'm doing and what's up.  I know that doesn't sound strange but given the context it is very strange. I don't think he's ever called to see how I'm doing, so now I don't trust it at all. I haven't called back, and as much as I'm trying to ground myself and maintain internal boundaries, I feel like I'm having a heart attack -rapid heart rate, light headed..ugh. This call in this type of message is all I really ever wanted. Just a dad that wanted to know what I was up to, maybe who would listen and be supportive. But I've spent a lot of time for a couple of years now realizing that that is not the dad I have and I'm not going to get that. So this call is sort of confusing. May be a disguise for a different conversation or scenario.

[Armee]

Oh ouch. Yes no wonder there is panic and other difficult feelings. He's leaving you the type of message you've longed for...if he were a normal dad...but you know that's not what this is. It is a set up of some sort. So you feel this bit of tender longing hoping this could be different but knowing it's not and knowing how much it will hurt when he flips it. I'm sorry. I've lived through similar.

[Blueberry]

I'm sorry Phoebes, I've had those kind of phone calls or other contact from FOO, as if xy had never happened. I read about the weird stuff about Christmas too. I'm sending support and care. Good on you for not picking up. That's good self-care.

I've also felt before that I was grieving my father's loss although he is still alive. 

[Phoebes]

Thank you armee and blueberry for your kind words and helpful validation. The thought occurred to me on my dog walk that his milestone birthday is quickly approaching. There was a whole big thing about that in the summer 🙄. I'm guessing that has to do with it..

[Kizzie]

I feel like I'm having a heart attack -rapid heart rate, light headed..ugh.

Not suggesting you do so, but based on your reaction just wondering if you have ever considered going NC?

[Phoebes]

Hi kizzie, I have. It would make sense to. I have a lot of cognitive dissonance about my dad. we are very very LC. I have not responded to his call yet, thinking about how I truly feel, what gives me a sense of calm or a sense of distress.

Aside from my dad, I am getting to a point where I'm realizing when I have stronger internal boundaries I don't feel nearly as disrupted by him or even the thought of my mom. Hey thing missing on my end has been strong internal boundaries, but I forgive myself because where in the world what I have learned that? But now, and I'm just trying to get to a place internally, mentally and spiritually that these things don't alter my blood pressure or mental health. If and when I go no contact with my dad it will be going no contact with many many family members I care about. They are a big family of codependence who wouldn't no way understand. Maybe that's for the best. Maybe when I move to Mexico it won't be a problem 

[Kizzie]

That's the problem with going NC isn't it? You end up having to consider going NC or LC with other family members who don't understand. Sigh, just not easy having an abusive/neglectful parent, especially if they appear loving, etc., to others and so triggering having people weigh in who don't know the reality of our situations. 

We moved across the country and it did help so perhaps going to Mexico will help you.  I hope so Phoebes, it does mean far less boundary busting behaviour from all concerned simply because you're not in the vicinity and people get used to your absence or so I've found.   

Just a side note about the use of the word "post' in the diagnosis of CPTSD.  It implies that the abuse is over at some point which annoys me no end because if the abusers are family, parents in particular you are connected into adulthood until you choose to finally go NC.  And then there are all the other family members who as I said are part of the mix and feel the need to weigh in. The trauma does not stop when you reach your adult years for many of us and so the word "post" is very misleading IMO. 

[Phoebes]

I totally agree with you! The narrative from both mom and dad are that I am just unforgiving of things that happened in childhood, ,most of which THEY don't even remember. That is loaded with all kinds of implications. But, in my dads case, we had long conversations about this where I was very explicit with what you said- it's not childhood, it's a life long pattern. It's not just physical and emotional abuse, it's the gaslighting and false narratives and lack of repair or true apologies. He sticks with his same narratives after all that and pretends like nothing was said. He defends his highly Abusive Nwife over his offspring and grandchildren, and worse, still  expects us to go along.

That said, to the broader family, several siblings aunts uncles first cousins etc., he is equivalent to Elvis Presley. He is this attractive charismatic very sweet very kind seeming musical artistic genius who is just always sweet funny and a teddy bear. How could anyone not love him? I do love him! But I am realizing that all of his actions and words and manipulations amount to him not really seeing me and not really loving me. I've told him several times I don't feel seen or heard by him he just gives me this blank stare and haughty reaction like how ridiculous. He really does just go deer in the headlights when anything deeper is spoken or anything that would benefit him to self reflect. It's hard because once in a while there is a change of tone and we do really connect. The potential is there.

Then as he's grown older he has gotten very very religious and he just responds with simplified responses like well just read the Bible or just go to church.   Like my not going to church is why I'm not codependently attached anymore, or getting there. And they don't know what I do and I've never even said I don't go to church. Anyway, It's hard with him. I have to  accept what is. I know he is unhealed and he will never get there thinking the way he thinks. He will likely never see me. He says he loves me and I want that love so much but it feels manipulative now the more I understand. I feel like a thing.

[ednasurvivalmode]

As I read your OP, there has never been a time when someone like that leaves a message just to talk. I say never because in my experience, it's either an info dig kind of call or a covert attempt at guilt tripping. Possibly both. Good for you to know not to answer and to recognize the message for what it is.

I have grieved the loss of my father who is still alive. I have now lived my life longer without him. I've had "funerals" (yeah, more than one) and written letters (one I actually sent) and so on.

I hope you thrive, Phoebes!

[Kizzie]

It is twice as difficult when your N parent is so charismatic and beloved. My covert NM was like that and it just frightened me so deeply because I knew the family would turn against me if I was out about how I felt. I 'solved' that by moving to the other side of the country and going low contact so no-one would know for sure what I felt about her.

It took me so long to understand just how much of an object I felt around her because I was always fulfilling her needs and not living as me but a thing or an object as you say.  Now when I have those inevitable moments of doubt or guilt I make myself remember what I felt like around her and what she was really about and how it impacted my life.  That usually sets me straight. 

Maybe you can enjoy those few moments when he is OK but knowing that it is momentary and he will likely never fill the need you have to love you as you deserve?

[Chart]

I wish I could get past this. The anxiety is crushing me. Why is the world so unfathomably cruel to kind, peace loving people who just want to be loved and included?
Papa Coco, Phoebes, everybody, I send you love and support.