no returns

[Armee]

 

TW answer for others

Oh San, big hug from me. I know that feeling of real true worry that you will wake up and find a person dead. It is incredibly incredibly traumatizing. It doesn't matter from a neurobiological perspective that the worst case never came true because you lived that terrifying moment every single day for years and then worried about your kids walking in on their father like that. It's horrifying. Of course you are shaking/vibrating.

With the suicidality that's what I faced every day for years with my mom. I think it was hard to grasp the trauma because she never actually killed herself so theoretically everything was fine, alls well that ends well. But that ignores the extreme trauma of living like that every day. It's real San. You aren't weak. You experienced life threat "big T" trauma in your body every morning you woke up.

I'm trying to think now what helped me . Definitely her ultimate death by cancer helped to quiet that fear in relation to her, because it never went away for 35 years.

But I found I was still getting triggered by that trauma even after her death. In my case it was anytime I'd hear an unusual sound from my son's room (like a chair scraping across the floor when he'd get up from the computer). It wasn't until I had an actual flashback after hearing a sound from my son's room. I flashed back to lying in bed as a teen hearing my mom move about her bathroom in the middle of the night, and feeling how absolutely terrified I was wondering if she was doing it then, and if I should go check on her. This was not just a memory or "this reminds me of" kind of experience but a true flashback where I was actually there lying in my teenager bed rexeperiencing this.

San, it was horrifying to feel that level of terror now with the awareness I'm now capable of. It was in that moment that I could recognize my fears about the noises in my son's room were triggers, true trauma triggers and had nothing to do with the actual present moment. After that for the most part those fears about the present moment fizzled away and I only got the flashback that one time.

So it speaks perhaps to the importance of letting yourself feel that terror in its full horror, while also recognizing it as a thing of the past.

I have no idea if this is helpful but just I know it's horrifying. I know it's bad. I know it's trauma. I know too there's an exit ramp in our brains for this but it's mostly just a matter of time and serendipity when the conditions line up just right that we can find the offramp.

[sanmagic7]

it was extremely helpful, armee, to be so validated.  it's the most horrible feeling i've ever felt, the most horrible situation i've ever gone thru.  decades of terror ensnared by this man wrapped around my throat.  thank you so much. 

TW

i also relate to the suicide thing, as i went thru those threats from her for years.  haven't gotten to that yet.

end TW

my other layer of terror stems from icky L, my first T who was also my employer and best friend - terrified she was going to dump me, so to speak, if i didn't do things her way (i saw how she worked), and the idea of losing all 3 of those important roles at once from my life felt terrifying.  so, i've still got some work to do, but i so appreciate your response.  thank you also for that big hug.  wonderful.

my T took time out of her weekend to talk me for over an hour yesterday.  i've acknowledged to myself that i'd felt terrified because of my ex's behavior in the past, but decades of it came crashing down on me at once and i was reeling under it.  never felt it before, not consciously, and it was so horrible.

that's all i can say right now. 

[Not Alone]

San, that sounds horrible. Your reaction makes total sense. Please be kind to yourself as you feel and react to those traumas. 

[sanmagic7]

thanks for the validation, notalone.  it really helps.

i told my T  . . . suddenly i blanked, can't think of what i was going to say.  i think this is all too raw for me right now.

[Papa Coco]

San

I am so moved by your reports. In the early years of learning about PTSD, I bought a copy of the DSM-V so I could try and better understand trauma. The diagnosis for PTSD can only happen if one of two things happen in our lives. 1) We have an experience that makes us believe we are about to die, or 2) We are connected with a parent, or partner, or spouse, or child, who we believe is about to die.

What you're feeling around your fear of walking in and finding your husband dead, and what any of us feel around fear of losing our children, spouses, parents is just as powerful a trauma as our fear of losing our own lives.

Yours, and anyone else's trauma memories and trauma reactions around a real and valid fear of finding our loved ones dead is valid and real. And terrifying. For people who've never faced death, death is a concept. For those of us who've faced death or the real possibility of death, whether our own, or our loved ones, death is very real. It moves to that part of the brain that goes from concept to reality and it stays there. So we live with the residual trauma of that from that day forward.

I'm SO sorry this happened to you. I am actually feeling the terror in my body right now. What you went through, and what any of us with suicidal loved ones have gone through are 100% trauma inducing and very deserving of our compassion and respect for each other's life experiences.

This is likely why so many first responders are PTSD survivors, and have their own suicidal ideation. They've walked in on too many frightening scenes. Death is real for them too.

Thank you for sharing this intimate part of your life with us. It's real and it's good that we talk about it.

BIG HUG! 

[CactusFlower]

Gentle hugs if you want them, san. Your being triggered by such a thing is completely understandable. You totally did not do it on purpose and simply because something is in the past doesn't mean it can't affect us today as we all know too well. We're here for you, san. Let those tears come if they need to.   

[sanmagic7]

hey, PC, thank you so for all your compassion and validation.  it's truly appreciated. 

CF, i'm always welcoming hugs from you.  thank you for your care and support.

today i found myself in a 15-20 min. conversation w/ my D1, as if she were right in front of me.  i was trying to rest my eyes, and this popped out of nowhere, and i was caught in it and finally feared for my sanity, so i got up and moved around, and killed some zombies in order to get my mind off her.  last nite i heard the song 'in the arms of the angels' and relegated her to those, especially hoping she could find some 'peace and comfort there.'

the song kept running thru my head, and it was if she jumped in a accused me of writing her off, eliminating her or something.  it was a terrible conversation/argument we had, except it was only in my head.  it scared me so much.

my mind/brain is going nuts w/ this.  i thought i was doing the best i could, asking that she be taken care of cuz she doesn't want me around, and it was like she knew and blew a fit about it.  i'm hurting so bad right now.

[Blueberry]

 

[Armee]

 

I'm here with you, right here, through this terrible grief.

[sanmagic7]

thank you, blueberry, for those hugs.   

armee, you named this grief, and i checked w/ my T about that, cuz it never occurred to me something so crazy-making could be part of the grieving process.  she agreed w/ you, said it couldn't actually be placed in one of the 5 stages thing, but was part of it anyway.  thanks for being here w/ me.  it helped. 

2 days of those conversations w/ my D1, and it wasn't till i backed down on what i thought was a kind, caring thing, that she finally became quiet. these 2 days have been better.  this crapola is absolutely weird sometimes! 

[Not Alone]

 

[rainydiary]

I resonate with how weird this all this - so many ups and downs.

[sanmagic7]

notalone, thanks for all those hugs.  they felt warm and wonderful.

rainy, yeah, it is weird.  it's hard to keep my feet under me when the landscape continually shifts.  thank you for that picture.

i'm feeling a little more like me today, but have been having a rough time w/ my D the past week.  her anxiety has ramped up terribly, and it's difficult to see her like this.  it's hard to know what to say or do cuz half the time it makes her more anxious, so i remain in a confused state.  i don't want to hover, but on the other hand i feel the need to be there for her, watch shows when she wants.  it's a lot like having a sick child - constantly on the lookout for what's going to help them feel better and making oneself available for whatever needs might come up.

honestly, if it isn't one thing it's a f******* nother!  it keeps me on alert.  i thought i was done w/ that after my D's were grown.  i didn't know how ill and wounded this one was.  it breaks my heart.  i just realized my emotions and thoughts about this are all over the place.  hard to get some sense of peace and rest when i have to be a caretaker.  it's like i resent it at the same time i'm so very glad i'm able to be here for her.  how does that make sense???

[Armee]

It makes 100% sense San to both feel resentful and grateful to be able to be there for her. I'm in a similar but less intense, less long term situation myself and as absolutely sincerely happy I am to be here to help I'm also tired and resentful too and deeply missing my own space. Both exist in sincerity.

It can't be easy to see your daughter appearing broken and more hurt than you imagined for her. I'll give you this maybe it helps, certainly you already know it, but a loving reminder: the fact she is willing and wanting to let you see that part of her means you have succeeded as a mom. Otherwise she would keep you at a distance and not expose that most vulnerable side and not want you around it. She's pulled you into that pain to sit with her because she trusts you. That's a great mom. Love and hugs to YOU.  And never forget she is her own person with her own pain and she has TWO parents. Her pain exists. It doesn't mean it is your doing. She wants you there with it. Just be. It's enough.

[Not Alone]

Having both of those feelings makes sense to me too.

You have a close relationship with your daughter. That she wants and allows your help and comfort says a lot about what a good mom you are. It is painful to see our kids suffering and not being able to make it better.