For 30 frigging years - trigger warning sexual abuse and religious abuse

[DD]

I had this boyfriend when I was about 16 or so. It was my second one and not very serious. I was raised in a religious cult so purity culture was very strong with me and my family. I was also shunned within the church as some didn't like the opinions of my parents. So I was very alone that led me to seeking company outside the religious fold. So in comes this boyfriend.

For about 30 years I thought that the heavy petting stuff we did was my fault. or consensual. But it wasn't. By this time I was already fairly broken inside. So, here's what happened. And is fairly mild. but possibly triggering.

He wanted to go further than I did. I said I didn't. I told him the boundaries. Do not go under these pieces of clothing. He did anyway. And it felt good.
It also caused a ton of guilt.
Which caused me going to our bishop to confess this. I don't know if I told him that I had said no. I have no idea. But I went to confess something truly private to a middle aged man I barely knew. Due to feeling guilty. His response was that a place in heaven really isn't important to me, is it. Which broke me somewhat more. Because at that time it still was.

But I did say no. I made a clearly worded boundary on how far I wanted to go. And that was broken. I could not, and still cannot, then leave the situation. I still can't. It's one of the ways I'm broken. I could not physically stop him. Not built like that. I didn't fight back. But I did say no. So even if I got physical enjoyment from it, it does not mean I was a willing participant. and the amount of guilt I got after tells that quite clearly. I said no. So I was violated against. The boy probably didn't realise doing this. So am not looking to blame anyone. But am trying to heal myself. I want to be able to actually have boundaries in this area.

And the bishop made the violation worse. Far far worse. Because then I was an unworthy human being due to what had happened.

[Bach]

What a cruel religion, in which a young person would have such a difficult experience and then be scolded and shamed for it by an authority figure! I am sorry you have had to live with that for all these years.

[Armee]

I'm so sorry. Yes, you said "no." He ignored that and continued to do what he wished. That is sexual assault. It was wrong of the bishop then to basically tell you you did something wrong and didn't deserve a place in heaven because of being assaulted. Whether your body responded or not is irrelevant to whether he assaulted you. I'm sorry this happened to you, all the levels. I, too, hope you can work with someone to help you fend off these assaults but they are never your fault. There's nothing wrong with you, that somehow your "no" isn't forceful enough. The people doing this to you are wrong to not listen. 

[Kizzie]

Really sorry you went through that and carried the wounds for so long DD. It sounds like you are beginning to heal in that you know quite clearly now you did say no, that the bishop who should have provided solace and guidance and comfort and did the opposite was wrong and abusive, well that's you shaking off what happened and using your anger to recover.  So, spot on I say.    and a hug if that's ok    I agree with Bach that that was so cruel.

I was watching a documentary about Hillsong, the megachurch that started in NZ/Australia last night and there was a woman who went through something similar.  Young congregants were supposed to save themselves for marriage but she got pregnant.  When she told the pastor he had her and boyfriend stand in front of the congregation and apologize - very cruel and shaming.  It is a scar she still carries a decade plus later but like you she is angry now that the abuses of Hillsong (and there are a LOT), are out in the open and she understands who/what was the problem. It wasn't her and her boyfriend.

[DD]

I cannot express in words what it means to get this feedback and validation from all of you. I'm crying my eyes out here, but it is the healing kind of cry. The one where I see the wounds and the abuse, for what it was and I grieve for me. I have felt so completely worthless so many years. It is within this last year that I have gained a feeling of being human just like everyone else, with rights that comes with it.

There are so many experiences like this in my history. I'm keeping myself safe right now by not engaging in people in a way that could lead to sex and stuff. I feel my vulnerability here. I need time to heal first and to work through what happened in all it's ugly details.

For me sexual assault and coercion have been the norm. Even in my marriage where my wants and needs were completely discarded and I was coerced and threatened into something that didn't fit right with me for 20 years.

One question I keep running to: They probably didn't mean violence, assault and abuse. They were just exercising what they thought of as their right. But does that intent matter at all here? Or in any other abuse? Does it matter for the survivor, or should it, that they didn't know what they were doing (maybe, although the disregard for me was evident all along and in many ways)? Or can I just say to myself that it really doesn't matter what they knew or meant. What matters to me is what they did. And what they did was abuse, it was sexual coercion and assault. I still keep just understanding the abusers and excusing them. It has been my main survival strategy. But it also keeps me from the truth my body full well knows.

[Armee]

 Hugs, if they feel safe and healing.

I also spent all my time excusing abusive behavior toward me, and it does help you hold the pain at arms length. But the people who did this to you knew your boundaries well and intentionally disregarded your wishes in favor of their desires (which is putting it extremely lightly when you are taught that engaging in those activities would bar you from heaven and your community).

You have every right to feel anger and every right to forgive or to never forgive.

[DD]

Hugs feel safe and good. I'm a hugger. It is a safe form of feeling connected.

Armee, how would you put it if you didn't put it mildly? I don't want to excuse the abusers anymore. Because what that does is that it keeps me vulnerable to more. So Armee, and the others who've read this thread, please let me know as bluntly as you feel comfortable with, what you think. So I can start to see it for what it was.

[Armee]

It was sexual abuse and psychological torture. They not only sexually abused you but they also made you fear for your soul and they did that knowing your beliefs. It wasn't just not listening to your boundaries and that is bad enough in and of itself. And a trauma on top of trauma on top of trauma when you reported it to the bishop and he "confirmed" and reinforced those fears when you turned to him for help.



I'm sorry. All of it is bad. There's no need to excuse what they did to you and there's no need to forgive it unless you want to. They knew what they were doing all of them. And then they dared to try to make you feel ashamed instead, to be the one to carry that shame. Are you angry? I am, writing that.

I really am sorry. I was in a very different situation, where I was dating a boy (well mid-20s) raised in purity culture. That too was very damaging to me. I excused it...he almost seemed to think I was the devil and he was in spiritual warfare with the devil through my body. My therapist finally pointed out how absurd it would be for someone to believe kind sweet me was the devil. But that really nauseated me for a long time, understanding what was going through his head when he did those things. It became no longer an excuse in my mind for what he did but just more damage on top of the damage already done, different but similar to what happened to you.

You are strong and brave to be ready to face the many layers of abuse and trauma you have endured. Facing it head-on - but slowly and with respect for how much you can handle at a time- can be a path toward healing. With you. 

[DD]

Thank you Armee!! I think I need to read that bit quite a few times. Every time I start doubting myself.

Because the damage that did is truly profound. Each time broke myself a bit more. Each time things that were not ok became more normal. The last time I had sex broke through a level of me endangering myself that I drew hard lines I have not dared to even get close (I stay out of any situations that could go sexual, so dating, meeting new people...). When I started dating after my divorce, I made a deal with myself not to have anyone over my house before seeing them several times and feeling safe with them. because that is the first home I have ever had that felt safe. So vital thing. I promised myself no sex for a few dates at least. And I have always been very careful about practicing safe sex as I have two kids.

And then I ended up in a situation where I invited a man over and ended up having unprotected sex. He most likely left feeling like I was ok with it. I wasn't. At any point. But my ability to say no had been eradicated. I had been so thoroughly indoctrinated in giving the other what they ask just because they feel they want to ask it. I got really, really, lucky. He wasn't violent. so home still feels safe. And he had no diseases I caught. I have been tested thoroughly since a couple of times just to be on the safe side.

But now, I am absolutely terrified of starting anything with anyone. Because I know deep down that right now I am only as safe as the other allows me to be. And no matter what I think inside of what is happening, it will not show. Because I have been taught to show enjoyment where none exist. to say yes, when all in me is yelling no.

And I don't know how to fix this. Not when everyone who should have been safe have not been. When all I have ever known is abuse, coercion. enmeshment, and so forth. I don't trust myself and I really don't trust others. But I still crave for connection and contact. because I have been so very alone all my life. I am truly grateful for this forum, where I can be completely honest and where that does not then give me judgement.

[Armee]

 

I think giving yourself a sense of safety in which to heal and develop the ability to say no is absolutely vital. It is a sacrifice, a huge one, but I bet the dividends will be huge.

We need to know inside and out that we are safe to be able to access the right to exist and set boundaries, in my experience at least.

Whatever you decide to do though, be as gentle and kind as you can to yourself. You've been through a lot.

[Kizzie]

      

[DD]

 

[DD]

Why is it that my thoughts on this wax and wane like a wave? A few hours ago I was in touch with the hurt. And now I am again more trying to deny it all, that it was ok even as I binge on food and cry terrified of losing the weight that keeps me safe and invisible. I keep thinking it was not all that bad. I did enjoy it, didn't I. I didn't leave. I wasn't hit or threatened with violence. Just men being men and they have their needs we just have to provide (what a hurtful thing for my mom to teach me).

In some way I understand I cannot go full out into the pain. I have my kids with me and I cannot be non-functional. I also need to work. And if I did go into the pain, I would not be. That I believe.

So in a way it is good (?) that I only feel it a bit at a time. But it hurts to have to go through the mental gymnastics every time of reminding myself that yes, all the men knew of my beliefs. I did express my discomfort. I did express me not wanting to. They saw the torment it cased and it did not prevent them from a repeat.

But hey, it wasn't penetration. It wasn't by a stranger while being threatened and scared for my life. But I couldn't leave. I could not leave. Not because they kept me there but because I couldn't. Because I think something in me was broken a lot earlier than the first boyfriend.

TRIGGER WARNING: I have this vague image in my head that makes me want to vomit every time although now this reaction is less intense now. it is of my small hand and a big adult penis. Just close together. But there is intent of someone else and a reluctance from mine that amounted to nothing.

And still some part of my mind keeps me wanting to believe that I'm just making this all up. All was ok, nothing to see here. Just some bad experiences, but don't we all have those...

[Kizzie]

Waxing and waning is common DD, maddening and frustrating but it's the process of recovery for most survivors. Tapping into your anger is fuel for standing up to the thoughts that it wasn't that bad, the perpetrators didn't know how bad their behaviour really was, etc, etc. 

If you look at the symptoms you are dealing with they are what confirm it really was bad, abusive, predatory.  Your inner self knows that, your soul or spirit if you will, but parts of you had to minimize what happened, excuse your abusers to survive.  That is the bottom line for all of us here. We have to survive.  It's soul crushing abuse in whatever form.  I was not physically or sexually abused and the emotional abuse at first glance was subtle, but whoa boy the N abuse did a number on me.   

Taking it a bit at a time is generally the best plan as a lot of us have found that diving in is too overwhelming, too triggering and as you say you have to be functional because you have a life and responsibilities. Sometimes it can just be saying to yourself "No, that's not true"  when your mind tells you things like "I'm just making this all up. All was ok, nothing to see here. Just some bad experiences, but don't we all have those..."  Other times it may be letting the anger loose to confirm what part of you already knows, that your perpetrators were predators and they did not care if they hurt you, they wanted what they wanted.

[Armee]

I meant to reply to this yesterday when I had some time so I'm glad Kizzie replied today, otherwise I would have forgotten to do so.

As Kizzie says, this flip-flopping is extremely common for us as a way to protect ourselves from the overwhelm of fully knowing. As long as you can find a way to be kind to yourself while you are going back and forth I think it's a way to titrate the experience. Where I've gone quite wrong in doing that myself though is calling myself stupid crazy and anxious when I swing to the extreme of thinking something wasn't that bad or didn't even happen. That cruelty to myself is almost like re-abusing myself. What I landed on for dealing with this for myself was kind of funny and wacky but it helped. I'd keep like a running probability calculation of sorts on my mind for when I doubted myself. Cause I'd swing between extremes of having like flashbacks and stuff and knowing it was true and then just thinking no nothing happened I'm just crazy and that was very painful and antithetical to healing. So I'd say ok it's 75% likely it's true. Then my brain would tell me "no you're stupid, nothing happened and you're just making these flashbacks happen by worrying that something happened." so then I'd be like "ok so what maybe I am anxious and maybe the true probability is 25% that it happened." And then my body would start having flashbacks and then I'd pop it back to 50%, until all the proof eventually landed me to 100% probability. It was a way to absorb both extremes of doubt and terror and to have a place to park them so I wasn't too cruel to myself.

However you find to manage this back and forth that works for you, do keep in mind what Kizzie said. The symptoms are proof it was that bad.