Miscellaneous ramblings of NarcKiddo

[NarcKiddo]

I journal most things and discuss much with my therapist, so this journal will be sporadic, I expect. It is likely to contain bits and pieces that I would like to think more on and I invite comment as I process whatever it is I write about.

I've been thinking about starting a journal here for a while. Several topics have popped up but none that made me want to take the plunge.

However, one thing that was very new to me when starting therapy was the inner child concept. As I get to grips with it I've had some interesting experiences. Mostly little NK stays hidden, or plays up emotionally but won't let me near her.

Several weeks ago I had an interesting encounter with her. My father was in hospital for a cancer operation and my mother happened to say to me that she missed him. This surprised her as much as it surprised me and for some reason that statement made little NK very sad. I thought about it and journaled it and ultimately discussed with my T at the next session. But the interesting encounter was during the night when I woke in the early hours remembering my mother's statement. Little NK got out of control sad and I found myself crying. Really, properly, majorly crying. And yet, for the first time ever, big NK was still there, just a little. So big NK spoke to little NK and tried to soothe her. Big NK tried saying "It's OK, I'm here." That made no difference. Then Big NK said "Tell me why you're so sad." That was completely the wrong thing to say as Little NK had a total meltdown. (Having discussed with T, I realise this is because my mother is emotionally engulfing. She snoops and pries. Telling her anything is dangerous. Even saying you don't want to discuss something indicates a weak point she will then work at. So asking Little NK to divulge anything about her emotions is not the way to go at this stage.) Thankfully Big NK was still there enough to try saying "It's OK. You don't have to tell me anything." At which point Little NK calmed down very quickly and I was able to go back to sleep.

However, what prompted me to start this journal was another encounter with Little NK that I had yesterday. I had dental appointments for a check up and the hygienist. I particularly hate hygienist appointments. This one was long because they could only fit me in with the student hygienists, who were very gentle and thorough but took absolutely ages as there were two of them and they both had to confer at each stage.

When I was a child I had many dental appointments. My teeth were not great, I was not all that diligent about cleaning them, and I needed a lot of orthodontic work. Little NK was never scared of the dentist as such, since mother had decreed she must go; I think she just dissociated. Especially at the orthodontist who was a really horrid man. As I was being treated by the hygienists yesterday I had the strongest feeling that Little NK had taken charge. She was taking the view that neither she nor I was enjoying the experience, but she has long experience of being in that chair and knew it would all be fine. While I am not scared I do always clutch the arms of the chair in case of a sudden pain but on this occasion I was able to relax and just let Little NK take care of it.

Whenever I have thought of the inner child concept I have assumed that Big NK should be the one looking after Little NK. It never occurred to me that Little NK might want to help sometimes. I was horribly parentified by my mother as I grew older so I am not sure if Little NK is still trying to do that now. But the experience at the hygienist did not feel bad or wrong.

I still find this concept really strange to try to wrap my head around, but now that I have consciously experienced the presence of Little NK I find it easier to contemplate and work with.

[Hope67]

But the interesting encounter was during the night when I woke in the early hours remembering my mother's statement. Little NK got out of control sad and I found myself crying. Really, properly, majorly crying. And yet, for the first time ever, big NK was still there, just a little. So big NK spoke to little NK and tried to soothe her. Big NK tried saying "It's OK, I'm here." That made no difference. Then Big NK said "Tell me why you're so sad." That was completely the wrong thing to say as Little NK had a total meltdown. (Having discussed with T, I realise this is because my mother is emotionally engulfing. She snoops and pries. Telling her anything is dangerous. Even saying you don't want to discuss something indicates a weak point she will then work at. So asking Little NK to divulge anything about her emotions is not the way to go at this stage.) Thankfully Big NK was still there enough to try saying "It's OK. You don't have to tell me anything." At which point Little NK calmed down very quickly and I was able to go back to sleep.

Hi NarcKiddo,
I really appreciated reading what you wrote here, about your interactions with Little NK and Big NK's responses, and how Little NK responded to what was needed at the time.  It reminds me to try different approaches/things to say with my own Littles.

Hope 

[NarcKiddo]

Thanks, Hope. I am glad that was useful.

I've recently come back from holiday. We went on a cruise and my husband's relative A, who lost her husband last year, came with us. The invitation was extended by me and we all agreed that we were not 'on holiday' together. The idea was she could experience a holiday on her own but with friendly faces nearby. It worked well.

I struggle a little with any trip more than a couple of days because of uninterrupted time with my husband (H). We sleep in separate bedrooms these days for various practical reasons (he snores, is obese and takes up the entire bed, visits the bathroom many times during the night etc). It works for us. At home we have a very predictable routine of time spent together and time spent apart. I need time on my own. So does he.

So, being in the same cabin for days on end has its own challenges. But we have done this sort of holiday for many years now; we have onboard routines that work for us. This type of holiday works well for me for loads of reasons and emotionally it works because there would literally NEVER be any danger of running into my mother on a cruise ship. She has dreadful sea sickness, and also likes her holidays to be dirt cheap. There are no associations with her and this is good for me. I've never really thought this through before the holiday I've just had.

Towards the end of the cruise we were at dinner with A and the subject got round to H's family dysfunction. Everyone has fallen out with everyone and it is a total disaster zone. Has been for years. He keeps out of it as much as possible. So A and H are no stranger to family issues. A and her late husband often confided in us their issues with my H's mother and siblings.

Earlier on the cruise H mentioned how he thinks his sisters came off worse than him from their mother's abuse. I've been reading a book which touches on this so we discussed it.

During the conversation with A, H asked me to tell her why I think his sisters have some of their issues. So I did, though it rang some warning bells for me. But he then went on to tell A that I have problems with my mother in particular and my family is every bit as dysfunctional as his. As he started along this path he asked me if it was OK for him to continue. I said 'yes', so he did. Thankfully not for long and it was the end of the evening so we went to bed.

Overnight I fretted about this because of course it was not OK at all. The end result was OK in that I do not mind A knowing. I thought it through and worked out the problems.

Briefly, they are that any discussion of our family with an outsider was forbidden by my mother. So any discussion not started or anticipated by me immediately turns me into a terrified child. Even ones started by me do that, but the more I tell my T and people here, and find the sky does not fall, the more I can build new neural pathways and not always have to revert to a state of terror. But it will take a long time and I am completely not ready to be taken by surprise. Added is the fact that my mother does not permit secrets to be kept from her. If you indicate you do not want to discuss something she will not leave it at that. It is a signal of a weak spot and she will dig until she has found out what she wants to know. So my way of dealing with it is that everything is always fine and I am always happy to discuss whatever it is she wants to discuss. I then grey rock, lie, and steer the conversation as much as possible to safer ground. I do this as a matter of course, now, and not just with her. So H asking me if it was OK, when I was emotionally a scared child, was never going to get an answer other than 'yes'.

Next morning at breakfast A was not there. H said 'what did you think about that discussion with A last night? Was it OK?' Normally I would have said yes. especially since my default position is that everything is always fine. But I was feeling quite brave, so I said it was mostly fine but not completely. He said 'did I go too far talking about my siblings?'. And I said 'no, you can say what you like about your own family to your own family. My problem was that you brought me and my family into the discussion.' I was about to continue with the contents of the paragraph above, but I lost the ability to speak.  I managed to stutter out 'it's OK' but could not explain further. Then he said 'you're obviously very upset' and I tried to reassure him that I was not upset because of the end result: A knowing there is a problem in my family. H said 'Now I feel guilty' And I started crying and had to compose myself before a waiter brought a handkerchief on a silver tray!

I managed to tell H that he should not feel guilty and I would explain when I felt able. To his credit, he said he would accept my statement and not feel guilty and wait for me to raise the subject again. That is exactly what he did. I talked things over with T this week and then last night I felt ready to try to explain to H.

The conversation went much better than I feared. I did not break down. I got all my points out. He did not question or interrupt me. At the end he said he fully understood all that I had said. I felt a lot better afterwards, though a bit tearful in the immediate aftermath.

This is huge for me. I have gone from being 'fine' to admitting to him there was a problem and trying to tell him. I couldn't at first, but have eventually managed. Normally I would just brush it all under the carpet forever.

[Armee]

Wow! NarcKiddo! Wow! I'm so amazed at your ability to later go back and talk to H even though it was hard to do so. Also I have the same patterns for the same reasons. Anytime my mom would know something bothered me she'd dig and poke and do it more so I became a master of obfuscating my feelings and needs in all situations so literally no one not even my therapist can read me. You just flexed a muscle that over time will rewire those hard-worn neural pathways. You did amazing!

And I'm sorry that happened in the first place. I understand, I have a SIl that likes to talk trauma and stuff and I stay super tight lipped about myself while she shares. I feel bad that she shares with me and I withhold everything, but we should have the right to choose who we share with and what we discuss about it. For me. It's because these things are so very traumatic that I cannot continue being myself and being ok in the presence of their being discussed, and I want to protect that from happening. Family time and vacation time might not be the time you want to feel traumatized, in fact you intentionally choose to be as untriggered as possible by going somewhere you will never associate with Her. I'm so glad you could talk to H about it and that he responded responded way he did. 

[cyberJudas]

I am so happy your H understands, and even though he made a mistake, you two were able to discuss the feelings involved and acknowledge each other's feelings. I think it is a good sign that your husband was able to reassess his own guilt after you told him that he shouldn't feel that way. My friends and I still struggle with that, but we are also all still figuring out out lives in our early 20s!

I also understand the feeling of having an emotionally engulfing parent, my Grandmother who raised me was very similar. Over time as I grew up, she became less nosy, but that's also because I stopped telling her when I was feeling depressed period. It is good however that you have a T and H that you have healthier boundaries with.

[natureluvr]

This is huge for me. I have gone from being 'fine' to admitting to him there was a problem and trying to tell him. I couldn't at first, but have eventually managed. Normally I would just brush it all under the carpet forever.

NK, this is fantastic.  Excellent work. It sounds like your husband responded very well too. 

[Moondance]

That is so very awesome for you NarcKiddo. And I appreciate you sharing.  It gives me an idea of what a situation like this should look like. 

 

[sanmagic7]

that was huge, NK.  i've had a problem w/ the word 'fine' for quite a while.  too many times we're taught to just say we're 'fine' no matter how much distress we're in.  i knew there was an acronym for the word, and i found 2: 'feelings inside not expressed' or, from aerosmith: "effed up, insecure, neurotic, emotional."  that's been so true in my life, and i always think of this when someone tells me they're 'fine'.

for you to recognize how not 'fine' you've been, how that situations was not 'fine' for you is tremendous.  it feels to me like you've broken thru a barrier to your real self.  well done!  may i send you love and hugs? 

[NarcKiddo]

Thank you, everyone, for your love and care. And for getting it.

sanmagic7 - thank you for looking up those acronyms. I had no idea they existed, but they do validate the fact that "fine" is a loaded word. I am going to pay more attention to when and how people use that particular word. In particular me, with my mother. I may be giving her more information than I care to, if I use it.

[SteveM]

NK, WOW!!

Big awareness's and action, I love to hear about these life changing events. The FINE response was a go to expression for me. Once I got into AA and stared hearing all the different definitions of the acronym, "FINE" no longer worked for me.

So gad you have compassionate people in your life.

Well Done!

[dollyvee]

Hi Narckiddo,

That was a very challenging thing you did - well done. I know I would have taken him coming after my family as an attack and went on the defensive. I come from a NPD family as well and there was always a blame game rolling around. I'm also not used to expressing my feelings or emotions as they were always shut down, denied or taken over. It's a great skill to know when you are upset, step back and gather your thoughts, come back to it, and not jump into reactivity.

Sending you support,
Dolly

[NarcKiddo]

Well, today I am STEAMING MAD.

My father was diagnosed with bowel cancer recently. He is in his 80s but you would think he was younger if you met him. This has obviously been stressful on the whole of FOO. He had surgery which went well and he recovered fast. Just after I went on my recent holiday he had a follow up appointment and I emailed to ask how it had gone. Answer came that the pathology report was not good and he was waiting for an appointment to discuss next moves. The UK health service is pretty poor, delays are huge and there are regular strikes. All things considered, he has received very good treatment thus far. So I have been waiting to hear about the appointment and supposing it might take some time, which may not matter in the great scheme of things as maybe not much can be done while someone is recovering from surgery.

I spoke with my mother immediately on my return from holiday as she rang to demand my input about some minor drama. No mention was made of anything else. She barely remembered to ask how my holiday was.

I spoke again today and she casually dropped into the conversation that he would be starting chemo imminently. Obviously the appointment had taken place so I asked further details which she gave readily enough. She had been on the phone to a friend and been telling them all about it as the friend's partner has bowel cancer, so it's not as if it's a subject she is not facing.

So why am I steaming mad? I'm not even totally sure.

Part of it is reliving the situation when my grandmother died. She is the only person with whom I have ever felt truly safe and by whom I have felt unconditionally loved. I was lucky enough to be able to spend some weeks for a few years staying at her house with no other members of my FOO. When she was dying nobody told me. My mother casually dropped into a conversation one day that my father had gone to her deathbed. When I expressed surprise, mother claimed she thought she had told me my grandmother had gone into hospital. Er, no. So I had to hotfoot it to the other end of the country to see her. That experience was all kinds of awful because nobody had seen fit to tell my grandmother she was dying, or that they had withdrawn all nutrition. I was not allowed to, though she must surely have started guessing when I turned up. It was also the days after 9/11 and the nurses had the ward TV turned to the news channels so all the poor woman would have heard in her last days was ghastliness. (I complained to the nurses about that, which was quite amazing for me in those days, as I would not normally have said boo to a goose.) But at least I got to see her and speak with her before she went.

I don't have a close relationship with my father. I'm not really sure we have what could be described as a relationship. So his terminal illness is not something that strikes deeply at me, except at a basic human level, in that I would not wish that on anyone. The prospect of him dying before my mother is grim, however. Although he is older, everyone (her included) had assumed she would go before him. This may of course happen yet. Who knows?

My mother reacts badly when the spotlight is not firmly on her so my father's cancer is not sitting well with her from any point of view. She has for many years told me she cannot bear people who have cancer because she thinks they play on it to their own advantage to get sympathy. Projection, anyone?! No doubt we will get more of this as time goes on. She will certainly not like having to take care of him if he struggles with chemo.

There is turbulence ahead, for sure, and I am just glad I started therapy when I did. I have already handled the situation much better than I know I would have done had it happened before therapy.

I guess I am mainly steaming mad because we have always had this great pretence of the close family who all have each other's back. Nobody else can be trusted except FOO. And yet you don't bother to inform me of a pretty major bit of news relating to my father's cancer? 

[sanmagic7]

yeah, NK, this stuff just brings up all the worst of what we went thru and it affects us, sometimes blindsides us, emotionally.  i also heard 'family is everything' yet when i needed them they weren't there.  i feel awful that you're having to go thru this.  i hope you can keep taking care of yourself as best you can.  thank the stars you're in therapy and it's helping you get thru this.  love and hugs

[Armee]

 

Gentle hugs my dear. I'm so sorry that your mother didn't tell you, despite rubbing it in that she had told some other person. That alone is gratingly anger-making.

They really do all use the same playback. My mom would do the same to me, about her own cancer, despite me being her sole caregiver.  Or she'd tell me it had gotten worse when it had gotten better, that she was dying when she was not, and that she was not dying when she was. She stopped me from going into her doctor appointments even though I drove 2 hours to bring her to them multiple times a week. Just so she could continue to manipulate the situation.

I share this so you can really see and believe it's a pattern of intentional manipulation, in case like me you still question whether it's you overreacting or misinterpreting things. It's not.

But you just explained very well why you are so (very justifiably) angry. You have past proof that she will be cruel and self-absorbed from what she did to you with your grandma. I am so sorry. What she did was hurtful and very very wrong. She knew you were close and resented it and punished you for it and then lied that she did it.

That was my mom to a T, too. It makes my blood boil writing that to you being able to so clearly see the selfish and painful games involved in what your mom is doing to you. I hope you can find another way of getting information about your father's progress, because your mom has proven there's no path to trust there.

Just to reiterate, cause I dragged on there a bit...you have every right to be boiling mad, with steam out your ears and everything. AND you are not imagining this, making things up, misunderstanding, misinterpreting, or exaggerating anything. This is what people like that do.   

[NarcKiddo]

Thanks for your replies. You know, Armee, I did not even think about how annoying it is that she had been telling her friend about it, but obviously that has fed into my general annoyance.

I asked my sister if she knew. She did. Apparently the appointment happened when I was still on holiday and they did not want to spoil my holiday. All very reasonable on the surface. Except that I had already (at my own request for an update) received the bad news, namely that the pathology was bad and chemo unlikely to be offered. Then they get offered chemo, which is arguably good news, but keep that from me in case it spoils my holiday. And then she continues keeping it from me in the face of more exciting drama to tell me about. OK, they knew I would visit soon and indeed I was going to visit this week but had to call it off due to a cold. So now I am in the ridiculous position of feeling that it is a good job my cold is really grim so I called off the visit, instead of dragging myself there with a lesser cold and possibly infecting someone who is just about to start chemo.

Sigh. At least it will give me plenty to talk about at my therapy appointment this week. As if I didn't have enough already.