PTSD

[Bermuda]

I feel like I have mentioned this now a few times and I'm not entirely sure if other people experience this like I did, so I wanted to ask.

Before I even knew about CPTSD, I had PTSD symptoms. They are extremely rare now, but they were once every day life for me. When I say PTSD symptoms, I am referring to things like the feeling of someone touching you, or extreme nightterrors and insomnia. I had panic attacks regularly, and full body flashbacks. They would cause me to physically run for my life. I would visually see terrible things happen, that hadn't/wouldn't. I had memory issues, (some self-inflicted) but I couldn't sequence my day-to-day life. It's very different to what I am living with today. If I get just a little bit of one of these symptoms, that's actually an indicator that something is very wrong for me, and I pull back and evaluate my needs.

I just wanted to ask if other people experienced their CPTSD like this too. I contstantly see these diagrams contrasting the two disorders, and honestly I disagree with most of them. So, did you or do you also have PTSD symptoms that are not included in CPTSD descriptions?

[NarcKiddo]

Knowing what I do, I would say that you have every right to have PTSD as well as CPTSD. And it sounds like you have been able to get the PTSD aspect under control, so you can now use it as a red flag for overwhelm.

I have never had any of the full body symptoms you describe. I've had night terrors but probably not much more than normal nightmares. I would be capable of running for my life (have done so as a child) but dissociate to avoid that sort of thing. I have not suffered what anyone would think of as big "T" trauma so I am not surprised that I am not getting such symptoms. My thoughts about PTSD rather than CPTSD are that the trauma for PTSD is an episode that ends, and our logical brains can accept it has ended. If we can get our emotional brains to agree it has ended then the symptoms would lessen if not go altogether.

[Bermuda]

It's very interesting that I never thought about that. I think it hasn't crossed my mind because in all the reading I have done they are always explained in a mutually exclusive way. As is you cannot have both because they cause different reactions in the brain, but maybe for me CPTSD was first. I just didn't have any kind of social reference yet, and by the time it would have become apparent, I was already in another kind of mortal danger (without realising it, because my trauma primed me).

[NarcKiddo]

It makes no sense to me that you cannot have both, whatever the literature says. I think this is an example of where the commonality of the PTSD label is probably unhelpful. It seems to me that the argument being proposed by those who do that is that the PTSD functions as an overarching label, like "fruit" and then there are subgroups of "PTSD"/apple and "CPTSD"/orange, where apples and oranges are fruit but do not overlap. I have always supposed (though I have probably read way less than you) that it is much more like a Venn diagram, in which case you would fit in the overlap of the two circles. Of course I could be totally wrong, but that is how it seems to me.

[Armee]

I definitely have both and they are a bit different but there's a lot of overlap too.

I have straight up simple PTSD from the gang-rape. It is intense. The symptoms are intense. Long-lasting. Difficult to treat. Deeply jarring. They also feed into longer-standing symptoms of CPTSD.

I also have what I think of as classic PTSD, but it fits the complex description in that it was a classic life-threat trauma (suicidal mom). But it was a life threat that was constant and never-ending. It went on for many many many years and impacted me with classic PTSD symptoms like flashbacks and avoidance but also with the complex PTSD twist of it being long-term, repeated (with her, and then also when my FIL died by suicide, my son became suicidal, I learned my dad died by suicide, and at the end of her life the themes repeated themselves except with extreme self-neglect instead of outright suicidality). But the symptoms also were classic CPTSD - self worth, self blame, all my fault, I'm not doing enough, etc.

And then there's the CPTSD from growing up with a mom with severe mental illness that twisted my thoughts and witnessing and experiencing some violence, and then of course the attachment issues from being raised by someone like that. There are still emotional flashbacks and poor self-image and difficulty trusting and connecting with people.

And that folks, as a whole, is complex PTSD. We all have different but similar stories and symptoms and they all sort of weave through our whole lives. In my experience of it, the classic PTSD stuff is more deeply distressing, and the complex PTSD stuff is more deeply pervasive. Both are nearly debilitating and both are deeply interwoven. It's probably almost meaningless to try to tease them apart even though they are different because it's an ecosystem.

[blue_sky]

I had to google symptoms for PTSD and CPTSD because I have never actually read the list carefully.
I was told by my psychiatrist that I have complex PTSD but I never dwelled much further into the literature.

During my teens, I kinda knew that the CSA that started when I was a kid and was continuing into my teenage years is definitely impacting me in some way or other. I just knew it, I didn't know how it's affecting me, I had no knowledge of mental health but I knew deep inside something is not right. I would SH and had SI constantly. I was not happy, I had to pretend almost all the time. There was more SA from other people and at one point I even believed that it's because of me. That I am attracting this type of people. That it must be what I wear or how I look (not that I thought I looked nice. I have always struggled with low self-esteem).

Even until my early-to-mid twenties, I thought CSA and SA were the only issues that I had. Then I learned about post-trauma and how it has been disrupting my life in every single aspect. I also started realising how wrong my parents' parenting was. It took a long time to even accept the fact that parents can be wrong too. That it was my parents fault for not protecting me from my sibling, for not watching over us when we were kids. I realised how much it must've impacted our little minds to have a dominating, emotionally abusive father, a super tolerant, submissive, depressed mother (who used to SH and talk about SI infront of the kids). I realised why I feel the need to be perfect in all that I do and why I cannot cope when somebody is angry (it doesn't even have to be anger towards me).

It made sense why I had faster heartbeat when I am in a lift with 3 other men, why I cried at work and felt like a child in school going "I wanna go home", why I binge ate and almost doubled my regular weight etc. But in terms of physical body reactions, I get nothing except just faster heartbeat, fiddly hands, sometimes sweating and dizzyness. I am a high performing team member at work and I get average-to-good marks in my studies. And yet I have complex PTSD.

I try not to put too much thought into whether I have PTSD or CPTSD or any other labels. I know what I have been through and what I feel and that should be enough. I want to heal and have a better life and that's all that matters to me 

[Bermuda]

In my experience of it, the classic PTSD stuff is more deeply distressing, and the complex PTSD stuff is more deeply pervasive. Both are nearly debilitating and both are deeply interwoven.

Agreed.

I don't really have a single experience to tie the simple PTSD to, but plenty deserving of it. I guess I never really thought about labels either because I am not looking for diagnosis or anything like that. It's not relevant to me how other people may categorise my feelings and experiences. I understand why other people want that, especially with how society tends to invalidate our struggles. I guess I prefer invisibility and self-evaluation. Hah, trauma.

I guess I wanted to know that I'm not alone, that I am not some kind of anomaly. Unfortunately, it seems others can also experience both. 

[Blueberry]

Bermuda,      for your pain and sadness. As I wrote on another thread yesterday, on this forum ime there is always at least one mbr who gets and understands the most outlandish and crazy symptoms my body and soul come up with, so I'm not surprised that some mbrs have some ideas and experience to share on your question here on whether you can have ptsd and cptsd. Not surprised, but also relieved for you that it's the case.

I thought, maybe erroneously, that ptsd and cptsd share a group of symptoms but that cptsd has an additional list of symptoms on top, of which you have to have a certain minimum number in order to be given the diagnosis, but thank our lucky stars we don't have to have all of them. My understanding is that we with cptsd commonly have emotional flashbacks, possibly even only emotional flashbacks, but it's also possible to get visual flashbacks. After all, smell flashbacks are a possibility for us - idk if they're a possible symptom for ptsd - but like visual flashbacks, smell flashbacks have a more obvious physical connection than emotional flashbacks do. Maybe about 15 years ago, I was told by some 'experts' that I couldn't be traumatised because I didn't get flashblacks, meaning those experts only knew about visual ones, which I didn't really get or maybe just once in a blue moon. Those experts were obviously wrong

It's also my experience that we with cptsd become experts in our own illness, injury or whatever you want to call it. cptsd is so terribly complex that on some level we understand more about at least some aspects of our own particular 'brand' of cptsd than therapists, doctors, researchers etc. So if you sense you have ptsd and cptsd, you probably do. I'll take your word on it anyway, and I'd really hope that professionals do too because they've still got a lot to learn about cptsd. They can learn from us and I personally would really appreciate it if more of them were more open to that! After all, we are open to learning from the professionals, unlike most of our abusers.

[Armee]

 
 
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In addition, Visual flashbacks are just one component of the "reexperiencing" category of PTSD. I've tried to do some education of the aphantasia community (aphantasia = lack of mental imagery) that aphantasia is NOT protective against PTSD as many of the researchers erroneously believe that no mental imagery = no PTSD. That is not true, at all. I have on occasion experienced intrusive visual flashbacks. They are disturbing. But also they point you toward what needs healing. And honestly they are not as bad as the body flashbacks where I physically relive things, sometimes (often) to the point of my muscle groups actually moving as if it were recurring. There are several ways of reexperiencing a trauma, as Blueberry points out including smell flashbacks, emotional flashbacks, body flashbacks, nightmares, and triggers.

The ICD criteria for PTSD in terms of the re-experiencing category of symptoms is more limited than the DSM criteria which are:

Presence of one (or more) of the following intrusion symptoms associated with the traumatic event(s), beginning after the traumatic event(s) occurred:

- Recurrent, involuntary, and intrusive distressing memories of the traumatic event(s). Note: In children older than 6 years, repetitive play may occur in which themes or aspects of the traumatic event(s) are expressed.

- Recurrent distressing dreams in which the content and/or affect of the dream are related to the traumatic event(s). Note: In children, there may be frightening dreams without recognizable content.

- Dissociative reactions (e.g., flashbacks) in which the individual feels or acts as if the traumatic event(s) were recurring. (Such reactions may occur on a continuum, with the most extreme expression being a complete loss of awareness of present surroundings.) Note: In children, trauma-specific reenactment may occur in play.

- Intense or prolonged psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event(s).

- Marked physiological reactions to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event(s).