Conversion disorder

[Blueberry]

I was reading Ghost's post about PNES and started googling it. One thing led to another and I saw "conversion disorder" which was mentioned in my latest inpatient report in combination with what they're labeling as OSDD atm because they're still not 100% sure where I am on the dissociative spectrum. See https://www.cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=15563.msg136356#new

So reading this now https://www.chop.edu/conditions-diseases/conversion-disorder

"Conversion disorder involves the loss of one or more bodily functions. Examples include:

    Weakness or paralysis
    Loss of balance or difficulty walking
    Tremors or seizures
    Vision problems, such as double vision or blindness
    Hearing problems or deafness
    Difficulty speaking or inability to speak
    Difficulty swallowing"

Yes to weakness, yes to loss of balance and difficulty walking, yes to hearing problems (my hearing was often very bad during inpatient stay especially in certain group trauma settings and my T eventually said that it can be caused by dissociation)
Lesser or unclear symptoms from list:
It's possible that I had tremors or seizures as a teen, I'm not sure partially because nobody in FOO ever saw it happen so nobody could tell me what it looked like on the outside. See https://www.cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=7891.msg136358#msg136358
My eyesight is getting worse and some things on this topic feel a bit nebulous or as Hope wrote on my OSDD thread, they're still hidden in a tunnel.
Difficulty speaking - yes in the sense that when things are really hard and/or I'm trying to talk about something very triggering in therapy, it can be that I can only speak in a whisper.
Difficulty swallowing - it feels that way sometimes when the lump in my throat is particularly large but I'm not sure if that would be included here. I actually had a lump in my throat for years, it was called 'post-nasal drip' then; maybe it still is. It was annoying, I was always swallowing trying to make it disappear. At the same time I also assumed that everybody had one and it was there for keeps, bad luck sort of thing.

[Armee]

Thanks Blueberry for sharing this. I didn't realize those were conversion disorder symptoms though I've thought that fits even without the list.

Interesting to me that loss of balance is one. I've been tested for multiple sclerosis a number of time for repeated symptoms that essentially fall under this list (and I don't have MS). But I will just randomly fall. Its not even really losing balance because there isn't a teetering first. My leg just crumples under me and down I go. I'm not tripping. I just fall standing still. I just had to remember about the worst time because a pediatrician asked me if my daughter had had any head injuries and I had to answer yes because one time that happened while I was holding her as a baby and her head hit the asphalt. 

[Blueberry]

I was writing about this first over here https://www.cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=7891.msg136358#msg136358 the salient points being:

He also asked if I collapse or my muscles go weak or paralysed, I don't do that but it sounds like he was thinking about symptoms like yours so it must be a known thing that can happen.

Reading this now brings :lightbulb: in my head. Because sometimes when I'm walking I just kind of collapse. When it's happening I have an image of my legs concertina-ing sideways beneath me and that's the image I also have rn writing about it. So my legs concertina and I land on the ground, often quite lightly - I don't tend to really  hurt myself but I often can't get up immediately afterwards either. Particularly my legs (rather than my arms for instance) simply don't obey me.

...

My inpatient trauma T mentioned that your foot suddenly giving way when you walk can be caused by dissociation, I remember that now. But since the state of my legs and feet improved with physio while I was inpatient I figured that my foot problems were all down to weak muscles, bad shoes (nearly all shoes are bad for me in some way or other, even those that are mostly good and specially for people with problem feet) and my general neglect of my feet plus being physically inactive especially in EF weeks.

"just kind of collapsing" and "concertina-ing" sound like your "crumpling" to me. I don't want to offend anybody's religious feelings or their atheistic outlook but this forum is really a god-send! The craziest of symptoms and there is always at least one other forum mbr who has something similar, can relate etc - unfortunately for them of course. Even when I'm walking along and do this, I'm not actually tripping either. One leg or both just give way, even if I sometimes have a second or two forewarning.

Armee, I'm so sorry it happened to you when you were holding your baby daughter and that she went down with you injuring her head       It wasn't your fault, it was cptsd.

[Armee]

Thanks Blueberry I agree it is a godsend here.

And I deeply appreciate you posting this because I never made the connection. And yes the description you provide matches exactly what happens when my ankle and leg crumple and down I got it's almost slow motion and like you I see it happening almost a couple seconds before it does. Now I wonder what it is keeping us protected from. Thanks for the empathy about my baby. It was awful because her head made a cracking sound. I was with my mom. But we had her checked out at ER/ED and there was no injury or bleeding or concussion thank God. Now I'm wondering if she has a sense of trauma from that buried under her reactions to her body being out of her control.

[Blueberry]

I was reading Ghost's post about PNES and started googling it. One thing led to another and I saw "conversion disorder" which was mentioned in my latest inpatient report in combination with what they're labeling as OSDD atm because they're still not 100% sure where I am on the dissociative spectrum. ...

"Conversion disorder involves the loss of one or more bodily functions. Examples include:

    Weakness or paralysis
   
    Difficulty speaking or inability to speak
    Difficulty swallowing"

 
Difficulty speaking - yes in the sense that when things are really hard and/or I'm trying to talk about something very triggering in therapy, it can be that I can only speak in a whisper.
Difficulty swallowing - it feels that way sometimes when the lump in my throat is particularly large but I'm not sure if that would be included here. I actually had a lump in my throat for years, it was called 'post-nasal drip' then; maybe it still is. It was annoying, I was always swallowing trying to make it disappear. At the same time I also assumed that everybody had one and it was there for keeps, bad luck sort of thing.

Now I'm wondering if Difficulty breathing might belong on this list too? I am having difficulty breathing atm (past day or two at least) due to the size of the lump in the back of my throat, even though it is probably not a real physical lump. I swallow from time to time but it doesn't go away, just like I wrote above. I notice difficulty breathing particularly in singing lessons and in choir practice but the lump itself almost all the time.

I know from my previous trauma T that my shallow breathing is a result of trauma. He explained that I obviously cut off the connection between my head (cognitive stuff) and my emotions by stuffing uncomfortable and non-allowed feelings down into my body, throat on downwards, cutting off at the neck basically. Since breathing more deeply can bring emotions up, I automatically breathed in a shallow way for years at least a majority of the time, enough to have shallow breathing my go-to method. He worked long enough and often enough with me on these stuffed away emotions - for this purpose not actually directly on the emotions themselves but on allowing them to be and helping me allow me to stay in my body and not numb out - for me to eventually be able to feel something like an open pipe going from my throat all the way down to the base of my spine rather than everything from the neck on down feeling like concrete. It did take a few years, though of course we didn't always work solely on that, but it hasn't stayed. Could come again though. Anyway, today I have an internal image of 

  *** TW violence ***  (whited-out)

something tied around my neck, though more as a symbol of there being an emotional cut-off point at that place than somebody having committed physical violence to my neck since I've never been choked physically that I know of, but emotionally yes I say as images of F and B1 turn up . Not meant to exist, not meant to have feelings   Not meant to thrive. How can you thrive and be your best person if you can't fill your lungs?

Well, now I have more idea what's behind the difficulty breathing. Maybe it doesn't belong under Conversion disorder after all, but I'll leave it here at least until tomorrow when I'll re-read it and maybe have some more clarity and can then decide to move it to my Recovery Journal or somewhere.

***Edited next day: I've decided to leave this post here because my realisations came as a result of writing about my own quoted post on this thread. I will however write any further realisations/further movement sparked by this post on my Recovery Journal or Private/Mbr Journal.

I ask kindly that other mbrs (1)write about Difficulty breathing elsewhere too unless theirs might actually be on account of conversion disorder and (2) make any responses to this post of mine on my Recovery Journal so that the conversion disorder thread is not derailed and muddied. Conversion disorder is too important of a separate topic/symptom/co-morbidity to get all mixed up and 'muddied' imho. Thank you.***

Link to my current Recovery Journal:
https://www.cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=15145.msg129386#msg129386 See p.20 and following