Spanking is Abuse Part 2

[Kizzie]

This is a continuation of the thread "Spanking is Abuse" Part 1.

[Blueberry]

Hi Blueberry,
I'm glad you wrote this in this older thread, I found it really helpful to read.  I relate to the horrible effects of such punishment and the blending with CSA as well - I suffered such a blending too.

I really liked how your grandmother was able to repair things in the way she did, in relation to the other incident you mentioned of when you'd said something rude (in her eyes).

Hope

Just copying your post here.
_ _ _

Thank you for your words, kindness and validation.

I'm sorry you can relate as well, but I'm not taken totally by surprise due to some things you have written before on CSA.

I once found a website that was very anti this type of punishment, and bolstered that with a lot of facts. I won't repeat any of it, but there was one particular fact that worked as an explanation of why a child might sense CSA was mixed up with it, the way I sensed it.

I guess I added that about my grandmother because that was totally different from anything my parents ever managed. And I played a role in the repair too, though I'd never been taught to by example in FOO. 

[Stillost]

WOW
This one. TW, I was spanked a lot as a child. Arm grabbing a bit, but spankings, that was it. Usually a belt, but when my brother got hot wheels, the track was the go to.
Had to get it, go to my room, bend over on the bed and wait. Mostly bare butt.

If I forgot to do a chore, or didn't do it "right" If I misbehaved while we were out. I don't remember the last one, but I remember when I had marks from the middle of my back to the middle of my thighs. I think I was in 6th grade.

It was always for my own good. And why did I make her do this. Once my cousin saw. She cried and made her stop. She was younger than me, but told M to spank her instead. I think it stopped not to long after. As I write this, I wonder if she told my uncle and he made M stop.

[Phoebes]

Ugh. I think a long time ago when I was writing a post, I mentioned how NM said she "spanked" me as opposed to it being abuse. I think I was still a little confused but never thought her style of "spanking" was justified. Someone in response wrote this "spanking is abuse" thread I think. Because it has stuck with me and affected me. I know that, but didn't say it "right." Nyway, maybe it was all coincidence. I agree. "Spanking" is abuse. And most times I'm sure with "OUR" parent styles, the term spanking is a gaslighting term downplaying the sadistic psychological style intertwined with whatever sadistic physical style they chose.

Even a more subdued good-enough parent who struck their child would feel bad and apologize. If my NM had ever apologized I would have been so willing to forgive but to this day she maintains it was my excessive sensitivity that was the issue.

[Kizzie]

If my NM had ever apologized I would have been so willing to forgive but to this day she maintains it was my excessive sensitivity that was the issue.

Amen to the apology that we wanted and needed so badly but that never came. I still have the image in my head of when my NM lost control, spanked us until our rear ends were red and then stuck us in a hot bath which really hurt. When we got out she was crying and we comforted her. Insane but that's how things rolled in our household.

[Phoebes]

That's awful, Kizzie. I hate that that happened to you. I remember my GM (NM's mom) did a similar thing to my cousin. My cousin comforted HER for hurting her (GM's) hand from spanking my cousin. My cousin still tells this story but is laughing about it. I don't think it's funny! She is a cousin who has not dealt with her trauma at all and is quite narcissistic herself. But i digress..

[Blueberry]

OMG Kizzie, I'm sorry. That sounds sadistic.

[NarcKiddo]

I don't remember my mother ever meting out physical abuse as an immediate consequence of losing her temper. Had she done that (and then apologised) I think I would have accepted that people lose their temper and learned that physical reactions are wrong but might follow.

All disciplining was left to my mother. I don't remember my father ever doing anything in the way of reprimanding us. He certainly never gave any physical punishments - in fact he avoided touching us at all and still does.

My mother could certainly lose her temper and she would verbally blare at us in a rage. That was terrifying enough. But she would wait until she was calm to give any physical punishment. We would be informed it was coming - sometimes we were told what form it would take, but not always. The dread added to the punishment. It was generally designed to be humiliating rather than particularly physically painful and it was absolutely designed to leave no lasting marks or damage. She specifically told us this - framing it as showing her love for her children. She did not want to hurt them; only to discipline them.

If any punishment resulted in possible physical harm she would make a great show afterwards of healing the harm, to demonstrate her love. The worst thing she ever did to me was hold my finger in the naked flame of the gas hob. This was done supposedly to teach me that fire is dangerous, because I loved looking at the flame and she said I went too close to it. I suspect the actual problem was that I got in her way while she was cooking and she wanted that to stop. But after she had burned me she then spent a great deal of time putting my finger under cold water and generally making sure that I would heal up nicely.

She never apologised. On one occasion when I was seven she apologised for verbally blaring at me when I had done nothing wrong. She was driving and was annoyed at the traffic. She immediately followed the apology with a request for forgiveness. I was still upset at the injustice and did not offer immediate forgiveness which was a very bad mistake on my part. She has never apologised for anything since then unless I have objected to something in front of FOO and she has had to save face. I don't think I would know what to do with a genuine apology from her if it ever came. I hope it doesn't.

[Kizzie]

I remember my GM (NM's mom) did a similar thing to my cousin. My cousin comforted HER for hurting her (GM's) hand from spanking my cousin. My cousin still tells this story but is laughing about it. I don't think it's funny!

It's totally not funny I agree Phoebes. It was normal to my NB and I to tend to my NM's emotions. All you hear from your parent or caregiver is "I matter above all else".  No wonder we don't value ourselves and have to learn to be compassionate and kind.

She has never apologised for anything since then unless I have objected to something in front of FOO and she has had to save face. I don't think I would know what to do with a genuine apology from her if it ever came. I hope it doesn't.

It's always been incredibly sad to me that as survivors of Complex Relational Trauma, at some point in our lives we must accept the fact that N's never apologize for real (nor will we ever have a real connection with them, nor feel real love from them... the list goes on). Calls for a big group hug  

[Phoebes]

 

[Little2Nothing]

My M would make us go out and cut a sufficient switch from a bush or tree so she could beat us with it. She also liked belts and a razor strop. She also used enemas as punishment and would make us eat soap if we said curse words that we learned from her. 

[Stillost]

Oh yes, the soap. Definitely stopped me for a bit. She moved on to Tabasco sauce for 10 minutes in the corner for lying

[Phoebes]

The only friend who I was allowed to spend time with at their house and spend the night with was also from an abusive household. She and her brother were regularly whipped in front of me, sometimes I got a lesser version too, and their parents were big on washing their mouth out with soap. That was traumatizing for me to watch. I would not have thought of "talking back" or even making a peep (also thought of as talking back), so this didn't happen in my house. I was slapped or whipped straight away for any perceived misstep. That's how I learned.

My mother always threatened that if I got in trouble from another adult it would be twice as bad at home, so I never shared the trauma I endured outside of my house. I didn't even like the friend my mom sent me to! Couldn't stand her actually. She was always trying to drag me in to getting in trouble. And my dad is still friends with this woman and visits her at Christmas! My parents clearly felt a real camaraderie with these people.

Then, when the boy hit me and I told, my mom told me to hit him back. But I knew if I hit, I got whipped. But that was the only answer I got. So I just took it in private from then on. One of the many double binds.

[Kizzie]

I am so sorry Stillost, L2N and Phoebes     

And this all is why we don't speak up, tell anyone, even when we're adults. It's deeply ingrained in us to keep silent or else all * will rain down on us.

What makes me speak up is thinking of all those kids coming after us who are going through the same thing. I can't live with the thought that they are alone just as we were and will develop CPTSD as we have, and do nothing.

[Chart]

As a species we need to understand that parenting can go horribly wrong. We need to learn how to be parents. We need education and training. Therapy and understanding the child's environment on their developing brain. I've written somewhere here on the forum about a "parenting license". Makes perfect sense to me. Gotta have a license to drive a truck... why can just anybody have a kid!? A kid is WAY more complicated than a truck... Strikes me as ridiculous. But of course good luck proposing an idea that would "limit" folks popping out as many kittens as they deem appropriate. Especially in America... sorry I'm ranting...