NatureLuvr's Journal 2024. *** TW. Strong Emotions, Describe Abuse

dollyvee · May 24, 2024, 08:04:27 AM

Quote from: natureluvr on May 23, 2024, 03:29:58 PMAll I know is I felt extremely suffocated, and was just fighting to survive. I finally figured out that fighting her was completely futile, so at age 21 or so I just gave in and starting giving her the gray rock treatment, which I figured out on my own. However, I still had a lot of rage inside towards her, which I just stuffed down inside me.

Yes, I think I figured grey rock out on my own as well, but maybe more of a disassociated grey rock as I think the need to hide emotions at the risk of physical abuse came pretty early. So, I think part of me really struggles to show emotion, or my internal self to others and just sort of "freezes."

Quote from: natureluvr on May 23, 2024, 03:29:58 PMAll that you say resonates with me deeply. It sounds like we were both trained to have no boundaries, and now we are trying to figure out how to establish healthy boundaries as adults. I know I'm often terrified to set boundaries today, because I was punished severely for trying to set them as a child. I often end up feeling like I'm in a catch 22, because I really want and need to set a boundary, but yet I'm terrified to do it. Hopefully, as we set boundaries with healthy people, and they don't punish us for it, it will get easier to do eventually.

I think this is also part of the "freeze" response that comes up that I'm trying to unpack. Recently, I've been feeling more of the emotions around certain times, like the conflict with my m, and I think that's been helpful in trying to grieve some of this stuff and help lessen that response. However, I'm beginning to understand that I think some of the more "circuit-breaker" responses, where I just shut down when there's conflict are likely from a very young age, which are harder to pick up on. I'm hoping that by giving more space to what happens internally, I can begin to understand when I start to disconnect as well as understand why I try to keep myself disconnected (if that makes sense). Boundaries are a tough one as I feel that there's not just power struggles at times, but I will be pointed at as the problem in a larger group. If I say something, even though something is off with someone's behaviour like in your birdwatching group for example, it's going to come back on me. This dynamic is also very familiar and the way in which I was scapregoated in the family growing up. This is just what's going on for me, so please disregard if not needed.

I hope you do find a way to communicate your boundaries as you absolutely matter and deserve them.

Sending you support,
dolly

natureluvr · May 24, 2024, 12:28:57 PM

Quote from: dollyvee on May 24, 2024, 08:04:27 AMI'm beginning to understand that I think some of the more "circuit-breaker" responses, where I just shut down when there's conflict are likely from a very young age, which are harder to pick up on.

I know I also tend to shut down when there is conflict, and go into freeze mode, but not always. There have been a lot of times where I've been able to be strong and set a boundary. I tend to feel bad about myself when I don't set a boundary, but I'm going to try to extend more grace to myself. It just shows how badly we were traumatized that we freeze when someone mistreats us. Hopefully as we progress in recovery, this freeze response will lessen, and it will get easier.

Quote from: dollyvee on May 24, 2024, 08:04:27 AMBoundaries are a tough one as I feel that there's not just power struggles at times, but I will be pointed at as the problem in a larger group. If I say something, even though something is off with someone's behaviour like in your birdwatching group for example, it's going to come back on me. This dynamic is also very familiar and the way in which I was scapregoated in the family growing up. This is just what's going on for me, so please disregard if not needed.

Actually, this is very helpful to me. I realize that the others in the group are enabling this man by allowing him to act like this, and pretending it is OK. It's the proverbial elephant in the room. I realize if I speak up to the rude leader, there is a good chance of being scapegoated and being seen as the trouble maker. I was also the scapegoat in my family of origin. I think this is an unhealthy group with the same dynamics as a narcissistic family, so I'm probably going to stay away, at least for a while. Our local Audubon society has bird walks, so I'm going to go to those instead.

dollyvee · May 25, 2024, 07:57:53 AM

I'm glad you have other options to try for enjoyment. I think that's a big step recognizing as adults that we have, and whatever the dynamics of the group are, a choice where you can remove yourself/try something new, which is something you never were able to do as a child

I don't want to fill up your journal with my experiences, so I'll say that I'm just beginning to look into the scapegoat and how that might show up for me psychologically because I think there's a pattern where somehow things are always our "fault," and I find myself scanning other peoples' reactions when I do stand up for myself, or am deviating from the "norm," and then become fearful (on mostly a subconscious level I think) about "survival."

I hope you find some like-minded people in your new group or the old one if you decide to stay

natureluvr · May 26, 2024, 08:14:25 PM

Quote from: dollyvee on May 25, 2024, 07:57:53 AMI'll say that I'm just beginning to look into the scapegoat and how that might show up for me psychologically because I think there's a pattern where somehow things are always our "fault," and I find myself scanning other peoples' reactions when I do stand up for myself, or am deviating from the "norm," and then become fearful (on mostly a subconscious level I think) about "survival."

I think that is why I get so upset when people get irritable, rude, or crabby with me. I assume it is somehow my fault. (I was scapegoated badly by my FOO.). I assume that them being irritable with me is somehow because I'm inferior, or unlikeable. I take it very personally. It is very hard to shake this feeling. I want to stop doing this, but am not sure how. I'm open to ideas.

natureluvr · May 26, 2024, 08:56:40 PM

I have a victory to share! Standing up for myself has been extremely difficult for many years, because I was abused as a child for ever setting boundaries.

I managed to stand up to my 21 year old son yesterday. I did it in a way that was firm, I did not back down, and best of all, I did it calmly! In the past, when I'd try to stand up, I would get hysterical and triggered, and lose control. I don't beat myself up for this, because I was so traumatized, I couldn't stand up effectively. I had to have a certain amount of healing from trauma before my nervous system could calm down to a certain degree. I feel very good about myself for having done this! I was respectful of him, but yet firmly stood my ground. Yay me!!!

Papa Coco · May 27, 2024, 10:11:16 AM

That is great news!

I can only imagine how solid and strong you must feel. Like some previously stuck energy has been let loose and is flowing now.

YOU did this. You gave yourself this gift of feeling so good about standing up for yourself. I'm happy for you.

What a great post for me to open up first thing this morning.

Congratulations!

dollyvee · May 27, 2024, 10:39:38 AM

Hi natureluvr,

That's great news that you were able to have some more space for yourself about setting a boundary with your son and not lose control

I also think it's great that you acknowledge you were able to be respectful of him and of yourself and what you needed. How great for you and your relationship with him

Sending you support,
dolly

NarcKiddo · May 27, 2024, 11:00:49 AM

That is really wonderful. It is so great to hear that you managed to set a boundary calmly and respectfully. I am also really happy that you have reported it here. And please do dwell on it and continue to be proud of yourself. Because it is these experiences that help build new neural pathways. It is one thing to know in theory that it is possible to set a boundary. It is quite another to actually experience it and to realise that the sky did not fall in. That you in fact DO have the strength and ability. This will stand you in good stead the next time you need to set any sort of boundary. And gradually it will become easier, and you will eventually realise (emotionally as well as logically) that setting a boundary politely is a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to do.

natureluvr · June 04, 2024, 11:43:08 AM

Thanks Papa Coco, Dollyvee, and NarcKiddo for your support! I truly appreciate it.

natureluvr · June 05, 2024, 09:55:39 PM

My family was a narc cult. My mom was a high level narc, and my youngest sister was the golden child, while I was the scapegoat. This sister is now also a narc. For the past 4 years, they both lived together in the same town I was in. Narc sis was living with mom and caring for her, but my mom was supporting her so she didn't have to work. I've been NC (no contact) with them for 3 years.

I'm very relieved and happy that the 2 of them have just moved to a distant part of the country. Now, I'm less concerned that they will show up on my doorstep one day, or that I will run into them out in public. Not only that, but one of my other siblings lost about 30 years of sobriety when this narc sis came back to town to fix up narc mom's house and sell it. Thankfully, she got sober again 4 months ago, and I think this will help her, too. She has told me several times how much this narc sis drives her crazy.

I suspect narc mom doesn't have much longer for this world - she is very old, and in bad shape physically and mentally. To be honest, I'll be relieved when she is gone. I don't feel the least bit guilty saying that.

natureluvr · June 17, 2024, 08:02:33 PM

I'm having a difficult time. I could use some support and encouragement.

Did a dumb thing. I made the mistake, and I usually never do this, of looking at my narc sister's facebook page. On there, I saw a picture of my high level narc mom, in the ocean, laughing and smiling with her grandson's, my 2 nephews.

Life is so unfair. As the scapegoat child of a high level narc, I was cancelled from the day I was born - no support, no love, only abuse and neglect from narcmom. I also have some issues because I was exposed to drugs and alcohol in utero. Because of all this, I have little to no relationship with most of my family. Narcmom did a huge smear campaign on me when I was young, and turned most of the family against me. Most of them have treated me as if I had leprosy, so I really haven't had relationships with them for decades. My nephews and niece never contact me, and once or twice a year, I sent them a card. I've tried calling, but they don't take my calls.

Here she is, enjoying life and relationships with them, while I'm still very isolated, as I have been all of my life. I have social issues, as well as avoidant and agoraphobic tendencies. Also, I'm very slowly recovering from a 7 year chronic illness. I have a hard time relating to my 2 grown sons, because of my social awkwardness, and they have completely different interests. Our older son is extremely busy, so we've been unable to talk with him the past several weeks, and younger son is about to move away to another state for his first "real" job. Feeling lonely, isolated, and sad.

I am going to take steps to help myself out of my isolation. I'm going to reactivate my gym membership today, even if I can only do the treadmill. I have a zoom bible study tomorrow morning. Hopefully, when younger son goes away, hubby will have more time for me. I know I'm getting triggered by all of this. I'm crying a lot, and trying to be gentle with myself, and nuture my inner child.

dollyvee · June 18, 2024, 05:13:12 PM

Beijaflor57 · June 18, 2024, 06:10:47 PM

Hi Natureluvr...just want to say my heart goes out to you, and I can relate somewhat to your struggles. I unfriended and blocked my narc sister on FB, and gave up FB over a year ago, due to trying to avoid some of the issues you just outlined.

But don't beat yourself up. You didn't make a mistake. It's only natural, I think, to have some curiosity about what friends and relatives are up to. I'm so sorry it's your mom, though, that's the narc and has turned others against you. I can only imagine how distressing that must be. I'm the scapegoat in my family as well, but it's been my narc sister that has done most of the scapegoating and turned most of my siblings against me (I'm one of eight). My mom isn't a narc, but highly codependent, and it was her neglect of me, and coddling of my younger sister (basically playing favorites), that helped foster the golden child-scapegoat dynamic between my sister and I, and eventually helped my sister become a narcissist. Sadly, I now have little to no relationship with over half my siblings, due to my narc sister's brainwashing and manipulation.

So I understand, to a degree, the isolation and feeling like you have leprosy. It is unfair and hugely unjust, what's happened to you, and me, but it's my belief that what goes around eventually comes around. My faith is what keeps me grounded and gives me hope that there will be ultimate justice one day. You ARE the better person, no matter how your narc mom and family have treated you, and so worthy of kindness, love, and respect.

natureluvr · June 18, 2024, 11:12:02 PM

Thanks Dollyvee, for the warm hug.

Thanks Beijaflor for being gentle on me about having looked at narc sis FB page. I'm very sorry that you were also the scapegoat in your family. Some days, it really hurts to be estranged from family. But, my husband reminds me that they cut themselves off from me by how they treated me all my life, long before I cut them off by going no contact.

Thankfully, I now have relationships with my 2 other siblings (sisters). I agree with you, that there is karma. I can tell both my narc mom and narc sis are experiencing the consequences now of their bad attitudes and behavior. I also have a strong faith, and it helps me a lot. Thank you very much for your kind words of support, it's very helpful. The only other place I can talk about this is with my husband.

Today, my son received a graduation card from narc sis. He threw it in the trash, and my husband took it out and started to read. I said lets not read it, lets just take the trash out to the dumpster, which I promptly did.

Papa Coco · June 18, 2024, 11:49:24 PM

Natureluvr,

It breaks my heart a little bit to read the story of how your family abandoned you so young. I felt a jolt of joy though when you said that you have relationships now with two of your sisters AND that your son loves you so much that he threw his narc-aunt's card in the trash rather than read it. I'm a fan of your son! He's obviously a good man and he's on your side. I felt relief that you do have a few people in your lifeboat with you.

I agree with Beijaflor, that becoming curious enough to look at your narc sister's FB page wasn't a dumb thing. It was a natural thing to do. In the future, you'll be less likely to do that again, but it doesn't mean what you did was dumb. It means you are a caring soul who wants connection, and for a day, your desire for connection rose up and talked you into taking a peak. I'm sorry it brought distress.

I'm not a fan of social media anyway. I check FB only when I know my daughter in law has posted photos of her and my son and the grandkids. That's about the only time I ever look at it. Maybe once every few months for less than a few seconds at a time. It's a gateway drug to screen-time-addiction.

I'm glad you have a few loved ones in your corner. I'm so sorry that your narc-sis and narc-mom are so hurtful to you. I only know you by pen-pal and I think you're a wonderful human being and the people in your family who've turned away from you are literally missing out by not knowing you.

Karma is very real. Narcissism tends to end in a violent crash. God created us to be connected to one another. A kingdom divided falls. Those who choose to scape goat other people are not ending their life in peace and love. Narcissists are driven by a sick need to hurt people. Like with any bad habit, they have to keep escalating the thrill to keep it fun for them. As a result, narcissists escalate and escalate their hatred for others until nobody in the world is left on their team. They typically die very unhappy and unfulfilled. Alone. In chaos. It is their choice. We are not cops or therapists. We can't help them. They won't let us help them. All we can do is pull back, learn from their mistakes, and spend our lives building loving relationships with people who are open to us. Like you've done with your son and your two sisters.

That's my opinion. I've seen so many narcissists live out their lives in escalating chaos. My narc sister is now a shut in, living in a depressed community. Her son hates her guts. He daughter and family have set her up to be alone and discarded. Nobody on earth is interested in putting up with any more of my narcisister's ranting anger and hatred. She's alone. Sick. Shut in. And I'm sure she's still blaming me and everyone else she knows for her own demise. I'd help her if I could. But there's no helping a narcissist. Pray for their souls and let them live how they choose to live. The last time I got tangled up with her, in 2010, I tried to commit suicide because of how she turned the family against me to get my share of our Dad's money when he died. She got the money. I got set free. I won that one.