I Feel Like Society Ignores Us

[natureluvr]

I'm feeling quite frustrated by the fact that CPTSD and adult survivors of abuse, and even abused children, are so seldom talked about or supported.  I hear about PTSD from war, natural disasters, etc.  People who have physical ailments seem to get a lot of attention and support. It feels to me like this is such a taboo subject.  In the past, I've tried to talk about it with other people, and mostly gotten dismissed, or shamed, or guilt tripped into silence, so now I only talk about it here, and with my husband. 

Am I the only one experiences this?  Why is our society so in denial about CPTSD, and child abuse and survivors of it?  I hope someday, when I'm more healed, I can hopefully raise awareness about this issue. 

[NarcKiddo]

I think the situation is changing gradually. A small OOTS team is currently working on a book which we hope will help to raise awareness. Even just raising awareness among therapists would be a start, since right now it feels like quite a niche area.

It seems to me that part of the problem is that the Big T traumas (war, violence, sexual abuse) that cause PTSD are things that people can more readily understand. That was not always the case even with PTSD. But when you have situations of abuse happening in the home, often perpetrated by parents or close relatives - well, for a start that goes on behind closed doors. The kids are not allowed to talk about it, and anyway in a lot of cases they think it is normal because that is the only life they have ever known. So outsiders don't get to hear about it. And if the outsiders have good enough, loving parents, it is almost impossible for them to wrap their heads around the possibility that not every child is that lucky. If the child is fed, clothed, educated and has socially upstanding parents it becomes even harder for them to accept that abuse might be going on. So it becomes easier for them to assume, when we tell our stories, that we are whiny, entitled people who just want to blame others for everything. Or they think "Oh, well, you might have had a bad childhood, but you are an adult now, so surely you can just get over it." I mean, if we could just get over it I am sure we would all be doing so. 

I also find it frustrating that there is little understanding and support - but I can see why it is such an uphill battle for us to raise awareness. And why it is so important that we try.

[natureluvr]

Thanks NK for your insightful analysis of why things are this way. It makes a lot of sense. I didn't know the OOTS team was working on a book!  That's wonderful.  I'm very thankful for this forum, where I can be honest and say things I need to say. 

[Papa Coco]

Natureluvr,

I agree with you that I have also been saddened by how people treat C-PTSD. I once had a friend (HAD) who had PTSD from being in the military in Desert Storm. I thought I could share my story with him. He answered, "My military friends have no respect for people like you who claim to have trauma disorders when you didn't see what we saw." That was the last day I ever respected him. Our friendship ended very shortly after that. But not until after I went through an EF of my own. Another time, I attended a talk on PTSD. I got there early, and the speaker went around and talked with us before the presentation, she asked what branch of the military I was in. I answered that my PTSD was from childhood abuse, she TOLD ME TO LEAVE! I spent a full week trying to find self-love again after that episode.

I completely agree with everything NK said. It's just like every social issue, from women's rights to racism to bullying and alcoholism: The changes NEVER happen from the top down. The social changes happen from the grassroots up. Women can vote in America now because they fought for it. Dr. Martin Luther King fought for the rights of Black Americans.  It seems to be part of the human experience, that nobody stands up for victims until the victims demand that they do.

I can say that I'm seeing a lot of energy being put toward the world learning about C-PTSD. We are on a path of becoming recognized.

Here's a little theory I have:  The law of Supply and Demand. As health care providers see a growing demand for C-PTSD treatments, they'll want to cash in and become providers of treatments. The more of us who begin to accept that we have C-PTSD, and that we are willing to pay people to help us treat it, the more "customers" big business will have for treatments. And, just through the laws of supply and demand, I figure that if psychologists see a lucrative market for C-PTSD treatments, they'll see an opportunity to make some money off us, and they'll start putting resources toward treatments.

[Chart]

To add to that idea PapaCoco, I think YouTube is a good benchmark of the growing awareness as literally thousands of therapists and coaches are offering (free AND paid) services for folks with Cptsd symptoms.

I'm actually gearing myself up for major resistance as I "come out" more and more about cptsd here in France. Not 100% certain what's going to happen but I'm determined to becoming increasingly vocal in the months and years to come. 

One major difference between France and the US is the fact that as a "social" state, France has in place an enormous service-oriented structure for family aid. I actually reported my ex-wife for systematically throwing our children out of her house, often locking the doors and then going off to work. There was a full investigation. She was ordered to do family therapy with all three children, etc. I'm happy to say her behavior has definitely changed since that experience.

So we'll see. I'm glad you spoke about top-down, bottom-up. I hadn't clarified it so much in my head but I see now that my idea of starting a support group in my area must be bottom-up.

Your story about your military friend breaks my heart. And being asked to leave before the lecture even began is pure tragedy. I'm so sorry to hear you went through that. It's such a parallel experience to being an abused child and having zero hope if recognition. Honestly it tears me apart thinking about it. Yeah, we've got work ahead of us. Glad we're together now cause I know for sure I can't do it alone.
 

[natureluvr]

He answered, "My military friends have no respect for people like you who claim to have trauma disorders when you didn't see what we saw."

I answered that my PTSD was from childhood abuse, she TOLD ME TO LEAVE!

Wow.    That is unbelievable, that people can be this cruel. I'm so sorry you went through this.  No wonder I'm so closed up about my abuse "out there".  I'm in a pretty fragile state now, but hopefully someday, I can help to spread awareness of CPTSD. 

She was ordered to do family therapy with all three children, etc. I'm happy to say her behavior has definitely changed since that experience.

What a hope inspiring story.  I'm so glad that things worked out for your ex-wife and the children. 

[Papa Coco]

Chart, I have never really left the Seattle area of the US. I'm learning more about Europe now than ever through my friends here on the forum. Hearing about things like family therapy is just making me surer that Americans are prone to being arrogant a--holes. The idea that family therapy helped your Ex-wife behave better with the children is so foreign to us here in the US. Here, we just look for ways to punish people who misbehave.

Natureluver and Chart, I appreciate the supportive reactions to the two experiences I posted. They were seriously triggering events, and in both cases took me several days to get past. You are right, these people recreated what I'd been raised in. Hopelessness. Shame.

I was raised in a very abusive Catholic school, and any time I ever tried to ask for help with the bullying or the SA, I was told by my mother to just ignore the bad people and not bring my little schoolyard problems home for her to deal with. I begged to be allowed to attend public schools with my friends, and was told "I don't care what's happening to you in Catholic school, it will be worse in public schools." (She was wrong. I graduated Catholic school at age 14 in 8th grade. I was free to attend public schools in 9th grade and I made friends hand over fist). But hokey smokes: When I was thrown out of a PTSD presentation for not being abused in a war, I instantly became that helpless, ashamed 12-year-old suicidal boy again, living in the shame of being who I am, for a good solid week afterward.

TRIGGER WARNING: Talk of suicidal past feelings

At twelve I began spending a lot of time designing ways to take my own life and to make my death look like an accident, because I had it in my head that my family was all good and I was bad, and I didn't want them to be embarrassed that their stupid little boy took his own life. Today, that tells me a lot about who I was blaming for my abuse back then.

I'm happy to say that I've grown a lot since these instances. They truly are just memories of the past. Today, in the present day, I'm learning self-love in ways I've never known it before. I use meditation and books like The Seat of the Soul to help me see how to get past all these traumas. While these events are still triggering, I'm spending hours in EFs where I used to spend months, weeks or days in them. I can now get through a triggered EF pretty quickly. That's progress and I'll take it joyfully. I may not be "cured" but I'm better than I was. That works for me.

[Chart]

Chart, I have never really left the Seattle area of the US. I'm learning more about Europe now than ever through my friends here on the forum. Hearing about things like family therapy is just making me surer that Americans are prone to being arrogant a--holes. The idea that family therapy helped your Ex-wife behave better with the children is so foreign to us here in the US. Here, we just look for ways to punish people who misbehave.

I'm 55. In ten years I will have lived half my life in France. For several decades I've come to an understanding of something I call "cultural compensation". Where a certain country seems "deficient" in a certain manner, there will be a "counter-element" that is the reverse. I'm sure this is not an original idea but have yet to hear anyone else talk about it.
An example of this phenomenon is America's obsession with punishment of "wrong"-doing. Already more than half the states have capital punishment (which also exists on the federal level). Hollywood movies regale in beating the living daylights outta the "bad person". The Johnny Depp-Amber Herd trial was a circus of "right" behavior and "wrong" behavior.

However, in a pedagogic context, American education techniques generally forgive "getting it wrong". When it comes to learning, Americans put trying far above not getting the right answer. We learn by doing. That's the "other side" to this cultural trait of "wrong/punish".

By these examples, the French are exactly the reverse. There's no death penalty in France for ANY crime no matter how heinous. The French don't have the extreme obsession with senselessly beating wrongdoers. And trials are never broadcasted publicly (privacy is sacred in France).
BUT the French are obsessed with mistakes... grammatical, historical, you name it. Arguing is a national sport and there's always a fight as to who is right and if you make a mistake (especially in school) you get pounced on like those bad guys in Hollywood films.
So the traits of French culture are opposite in what dictates the manner of reaction, but there's two sides to it, just like in the US, they're just diametrically opposite.

So what I think I want to point out is, is that the manner in which one culture reacts to a situation or condition is generally going to be in line with already pre-established "balances" existing in that culture.

This means that different cultures will always seemingly be "in advance" on certain subjects, but on closer scrutiny they very well might be "behind" on other subjects.

American culture has always had huge polar swings from one extreme to the other. This is both a hugely annoying and immature "state" of existing, but also credits American's incredible ability to change and change fast. Fast change is different in Europe... nothing changes for a very long time, and then, wham! It seems to change over a period of a few weeks. In the US it's just steady constant back and forth change.

For me Europe and the US are like the yin-yang. But I think this crazy balancing circus is happening worldwide. That's what's so fascinating about other cultures.

The future of Cptsd-perception and acceptance will follow many courses depending greatly on the various intrinsic traits of each culture that becomes conscious of it. But even these perceptions inter-culturally will change over time. It takes time to come to understand complex things. When I see the massive amounts of info on YouTube about cptsd I can't help but think the awareness is coming and coming fast. The human brain resists change because it's more efficient to stick with what you know. New stuff has always been slow coming. The nervous system has to recognize an advantage for incorporating new ways of thinking and perceiving. We see this in society and certainly I see it in my own individual brain. Change is hard. I think that's why ignorance persists and why those who confront it struggle so much.

[Chart]

I'm happy to say that I've grown a lot since these instances. They truly are just memories of the past. Today, in the present day, I'm learning self-love in ways I've never known it before. I use meditation and books like The Seat of the Soul to help me see how to get past all these traumas. While these events are still triggering, I'm spending hours in EFs where I used to spend months, weeks or days in them. I can now get through a triggered EF pretty quickly. That's progress and I'll take it joyfully. I may not be "cured" but I'm better than I was. That works for me.

That is truly inspiring good news. In every manner I am so happy to hear that. It gives me hope and confidence that things can and will get better. Thank you again PapaCoco!

[natureluvr]

At twelve I began spending a lot of time designing ways to take my own life and to make my death look like an accident, because I had it in my head that my family was all good and I was bad, and I didn't want them to be embarrassed that their stupid little boy took his own life. Today, that tells me a lot about who I was blaming for my abuse back then.

I'm really glad that you stayed on this earth, Papa Coco.  You have given me incredible and profoundly beneficial support here.  I've seen you give amazing support to others here as well. 

While these events are still triggering, I'm spending hours in EFs where I used to spend months, weeks or days in them. I can now get through a triggered EF pretty quickly. That's progress and I'll take it joyfully. I may not be "cured" but I'm better than I was. That works for me.

This is real progress!  Do you use the techniques in Pete Walkers book on CPTSD to get through the EF's faster? 

[Chart]

No wonder I'm so closed up about my abuse "out there".  I'm in a pretty fragile state now, but hopefully someday, I can help to spread awareness of CPTSD.

Natureluvr, Your topic thread is doing exactly that: Spreading awareness of Cptsd. Were it not for your post here we would not have exchanged our distinct experiences. As awful as PapaCoco's story about the military Ptsd meeting was I'm VERY glad he had the courage to relate it because I live in a town absolutely packed with military and can easily imagine running into potentially similar people. At least now I am prepared for that possibility. So thank you. I'm sorry that you're struggling. We know what you're going through. First, we can open up on the forum. Later, when we're ready we can open up "out there". But you set the pace for your recovery and healing. The important thing is you've begun. Bravo. We keep at healing as best we can. And the forum helps. Thank you, you've helped me. Indeed, I need to think about why most humans can't seem to see child abuse on "any" level. It's hard to understand. But being aware is the first step and you've given me that. Truly, thank you.

[Blueberry]

I'm feeling quite frustrated by the fact that CPTSD and adult survivors of abuse, and even abused children, are so seldom talked about or supported.  I hear about PTSD from war, natural disasters, etc.  People who have physical ailments seem to get a lot of attention and support. It feels to me like this is such a taboo subject.  In the past, I've tried to talk about it with other people, and mostly gotten dismissed, or shamed, or guilt tripped into silence, so now I only talk about it here, and with my husband. 

My experience has been that people don't want to know about something they may actually be doing. It's easier to look at CPTSD or PTSD caused by war, especially the other side of the world or a few generations ago, or caused by natural disasters than to look at something that maybe someone you care about potentially did. In the past I've been asked what CSA was in my family. Friends would consider it and then come back and say they didn't think that was CSA because some of it was done in their FOO and it hadn't damaged them... Or I was asked about the relationship between me and B1 when we were children and the response would be: "that's normal, all brothers do that"     Because theirs did? Or what? When is something abuse, when is it not? I have no doubt about the CSA in my FOO but it's hard to explain it and prove it to somebody who can't pick up on the clues my body sends out (freezing, numbing etc).

During war or natural disasters you can blame some sort of higher power or mankind as a whole whereas in interpersonal abuse there are individual people involved. There were adults who saw/sensed stuff and alerted my parents but I'm sure they'd have been shocked if I'd tried to say what was really going on, like the CSA I sensed but had no words for. I don't think they would have believed me. You don't want to think that one of your best friends or an in-law is capable of stuff like that. But that was all a few decades ago. My friends' reactions aren't, they've been in the past 10-15 years. Some are no longer friends.

"Apparently" it's human nature to protect people being criticised by others, said a T to me over 20 years ago so that's why friends would end up sticking up for e.g. my parents or other people I was having trouble with. I'm not sure why it is apparently NOT human nature to stand up for somebody actually being abused, except that people don't want to interfere etc. btw that T from over 20 years ago did do a lot of psychological harm to me.

No, you're definitely not alone with this natureluvr 

[Chart]

Indeed, where is the Hope in Cptsd awareness?

There is no benefit, profit, advantage, incentive, encouragement, support or general knowledge to or around child abuse advocacy. Children have no money, no power, no experience, no voice. Generally I don't think we even really understand what "is" a child. Everyone who has a diploma shows it as the end result. The "process" of how they got it is not detailed. Humans make it to adulthood and "how they got there" is mostly forgotten, either for lack of interest or intentionally (cause it was so awful). 

In the work on my cptsd these past ten-ish months I've also tried hard to become aware and focus on how I'm feeling when interacting with my daughter.

I have to be honest and recognize a lot of frustration and difficulty. The complex situations that arise just in every day life are very often nearly impossible to explain to her. Thus my own feelings become entangled and confused with the exhaustion of doing so much all the time.

Where in the world are parents not stressed and under pressure? (And the irony is that we don't have to be this way anymore. We're not just at the top, we're totally out of the food-chain.)

So children not only get the short end of the stick in almost all situations but they're also mostly invisible in general. Seeing as they are severely limited in their capacity to represent themselves, there's almost no way of knowing what's happening with them outside of honest, sensitive and perceptive parents. And "honest, sensitive and perceptive" are not the most critical survival traits to have in the modern human environment, thus their absence amongst most adults.

It's critical we know what we are up against if and when we try to raise awareness. Severe mistreatment of children probably skyrocketed exponentially at the Industrial Revolution. Since then we can see that there were laws put into place in most countries, but the reality remains dismal regarding actual systems that function effectively to protect children especially within the family.

It is for this very reason that I believe this is now the most important subject of the Human Species. I believe ALL our problems (within societies and between societies) stem from developmental trauma and the behavioral impact it produces in us. We behave and react from a "false" estimation of reality. Not only in the exterior social and natural environments, but even more critically our own estimations of danger and survival of the individual self. This is for all intents and purposes ENTIRELY due to abnormal changes in the brain during development, during childhood, as a result of abuse. Very few humans on earth feel effectively safe.

It has become a pernicious cycle amongst our species, the breaking of which can only be accomplished using the unsatisfying and unspectacular tools of patience and remaining determined in the face of incessant disappointment.

There is indeed no other choice but to simply ride out the storm. As a mere sailor on this vessel I can only do so much. But if our ship stays afloat and we come to port, perhaps together we can convince people of the hard realities just over the horizon.

Having connected with others here and identified our core shared experience, I actually feel confident I can start speaking up. I ask nothing of anyone apart from what they have already offered AND given: support and recognition. These are the foundational tools that will permit our work to progress. I'm excited and honored to be part of constructing such an important edifice. Ultimately this building will profoundly protect children all the world round.

[natureluvr]

Natureluvr, Your topic thread is doing exactly that: Spreading awareness of Cptsd. Were it not for your post here we would not have exchanged our distinct experiences.

Thank you, you've helped me. Indeed, I need to think about why most humans can't seem to see child abuse on "any" level. It's hard to understand. But being aware is the first step and you've given me that. Truly, thank you.

I'm glad I've helped increase awareness, and that I've helped you, Chart. Thanks for your kind and supportive words.

My experience has been that people don't want to know about something they may actually be doing. It's easier to look at CPTSD or PTSD caused by war, especially the other side of the world or a few generations ago, or caused by natural disasters than to look at something that maybe someone you care about potentially did.

Yeah, this makes sense. People tend to deny things, rather than really admit the painful truth of something as evil as abusing a child. 

Friends would consider it and then come back and say they didn't think that was CSA because some of it was done in their FOO and it hadn't damaged them... Or I was asked about the relationship between me and B1 when we were children and the response would be: "that's normal, all brothers do that"     Because theirs did? Or what? When is something abuse, when is it not? I have no doubt about the CSA in my FOO but it's hard to explain it and prove it to somebody who can't pick up on the clues my body sends out (freezing, numbing etc).

I'm truly sorry that this happened to you, blueberry.    This all sounds like denial and minimization - very common responses to trauma and dysfunction. I suspect that many/most people today have been through some type of abuse/abandonment/neglect as children, and are in denial about it.  I think it is a systemic problem in the world today.  If they are in denial about their own trauma, and someone else brings up their own trauma, it is painful to them, and they tend to want to just shut it down. That is my theory.  It's like the elephant in the room - lets all just pretend it isn't there. 

I'm not sure why it is apparently NOT human nature to stand up for somebody actually being abused,

I have a theory about this too.  Abuse is all about a power imbalance, where the abuser has the power.  It can be a parent, a political leader, a corporate leader, etc.  Many people want to be on the winning side, part of the in crowd, so to speak.  Therefore, they tend to side with the person who has the power.  My mother was a very attractive and charming person when she was young, as narcissists tend to be.  People "out there" thought she was great - the extended family, friends, neighbors, etc.  But, behind closed doors, she was an evil, hateful mean person.  I tried telling my a couple of extended family members over the years, and they didn't believe me.  I had issues as a child - no social skills, withdrawn, etc.  They should have seen there was a problem. Of course, this was in the 1960's, and stuff like this just wasn't talked about. 

I've also seen this dynamic in groups that had a leader with narcissistic tendencies - people tend to side with the leader, because if they confronted the leader, they would become the persona non grata.  It's basically a selfish and self protective thing. 

[Papa Coco]

I'm really enjoying this particular exchange with you all, Chart, Natureluvr and Blueberry.

During the past few months, I've found a great deal of growth in a series of books I've been reading and rereading. In The Seat Of the Soul by Gary Zukav, I learned of the concept of how we humans search for power. He refers to two paths of travel through life, one is the horizontal path, which is basically the unaware human biological path of searching for happiness and power in things like wealth, arrogance, jealousy, revenge, snobbery, anger, etc, etc. (Basically what some religions might call "the seven deadly sins"). If we don't strive to better ourselves personally, we instead seek to feel our personal power through un-useful trivial things that happiness students call the Hedonistic Treadmill. Here in the US, people seek personal power through expensive cars, bigger houses, punishing anyone who disagrees with them, mean-speak on social media, etc. Those things make us feel better for about a minute. That's why the science of happiness calls this the Hedonistic Treadmill. It produces wars, hatred, anger, isolation, poor parenting, poor leadership. Basically, every social problem we have is because of people grasping for power on the horizontal path.

I also read books and watch multiple documentaries on the emerging science of human happiness. All these sources agree that true, permanent happiness and growth are found within ourselves.

Zukav calls the other path, the vertical path. When we decide to calm our fears or insecurities by reaching for personal power on the vertical path, we grow permanently. Instead of trying to hurt someone else or bolster some armchair opinion, we look within ourselves, or up toward our personal version of a higher power, or a higher version of ourselves. We seek comfort in compassion or forgiveness rather than punishment or judgement.

In order to really try to grasp what he taught in his chapter on Power, I've put it on Audio book and I listen to that chapter over and over as I drive long drives, or putter around doing housework or yard work. The more I listen to it, the more it seats itself in my brain and tears down old neuropathways and rebuilds new ones that progressively improve my life from the inside.

I seek power whenever I feel intimidated, triggered, worthless, outmatched, afraid... Where I used to seek it was the same place society seeks it, by saying mean things to others, or by flaunting around in a newer car, or by rolling my eyes at another's mistakes.  That was a treadmill that sustained my misery.

Now I'm learning to find compassion for people who are making mistakes. I'm actually starting to catch myself doing it automatically. That's real progress for me. I don't have to tell myself to be kind as often as I used to have to. Now I'm catching myself feeling compassion for people organically. I promise you I still have a long way to go, but as I look back behind me, I can see that I'm starting to move past where I was.

Having been raised in a Catholic environment, I had learned to be judgmental on everyone. It didn't serve me. It didn't serve them. It didn't serve humanity. I can see that now. The horizontal path is just a treadmill of me trying to find personal power in ways that don't give me any spiritual or emotional growth of any kind. Searching for power in working to learn how to be forgiving and compassionate is changing me permanently. It's calming my 6 decades long anxiety. It's making me feel stronger and calmer and safer. The growth is a slow process, but if I want to walk from Seattle to New York, every small step is as important as all the others.

For this reason, of all the books I've been reading that are helping me, Zukav's book is giving me the most fodder for change.

But it's more than just one book. That's just one of the pieces to my puzzle. Each piece is as important as the rest. I'm so grateful for this forum and for you all because I feel like I'm a part of a community of people who are not happy being on the treadmill. We've been victimized by people who seek temporary power by hurting us. We suffer with this because we are somehow aware that it's not serving anyone and we are frustrated that it's still happening. I get a lot of strength from you all. I believe that people who seek, find. The world is filled with people who are not seeking help. Those people will never find it. WE here on the forum are the ones who aren't able to fit into the abuse of the horizontal world. So we are here, interacting with each other, seeking ways to rise above the treadmill of pain. Your comradery and empathy make me feel like I'm a part of something bigger and more "vertical", and my own personal growth is proof that it's working.  So I have a very deep gratitude for you all and for this platform that we have to interact on.

I credit you folks, my therapist, and the books equally. Three components that have created a holistic approach to helping me learn how to find vertical growth by stepping off the human treadmill of horizontal, non-edifying behaviors, greed, judgements, punishments, etc.. You encourage me to continue searching within myself and within my own personal higher power for permanent ways to better myself and become the change I want to see in the world. Without motivation, I won't grow. You provide motivation and I always hope and pray I am returning the favor.

I hope this didn't sound too weird. I can get pretty deep at times.

I love you people. I don't say that lightly. Love is connection. I connect with you. And I love you. And I feel constant gratitude for having found this forum when I did.

PC.