Recovered Lost Memories of SA through Psychedelic Therapy

[Chart]

Sorry, I don't wish to divert this thread from Denverite's subject and experience. This is just what hit my psyche. Please, my question is for another thread. Please take it as an expression of sadness for all the pain you, we, others have had to endure. My question is simply rhetorical.
Denverite, PapaCoco, everyone, thankyou for the bravery of your testamony.

[Denverite]

The experience of being abused and then having your parent be angry with you over that is one I share with you unfortunately. Maybe time to do some grieving here. This is making me very sad again.

I agree, that was one of the most shocking things to uncover in these memories. Actually, just today, I was raging about that a bit as I did my daily walk in the park. How absolutely broken of a person you'd have to be, to treat your son or daughter like that after they've just been groomed and abused...Like...What?!

Something else that came up for me in those sessions is that my parents' reaction was actually more traumatizing than the rape and grooming. Them completely demolishing what fragile sense of safety and trust I had left in the immediate aftermath of the SA was absolutely crippling for my psyche. I imagine you can relate to that feeling, Desert Flower. If I'd only been held and healed by them, the worst could have been avoided, was what I learned.

[Denverite]

I live by a few rules; one of which is "We're stronger together." Isolation is a slippery slope that grips all of us, but choosing to share our lives with others who understand what we're going through is worth gathering up the courage to do. Writing out the ugliest parts of our stories is how we reach out for acceptance and validation. Here, on this forum, those come in the form of kindness and love from people we may never meet in person, but who we feel connected with anyway.

Hey Papa Coco, thanks for sharing your story as well as the journey it has led you to take. I resonate with a lot of what you've written here, particularly needing to distance yourself from your entire family. Eventually, you just know these people aren't willing to stretch enough to meet you where you need. It takes immense courage to take that step because we're so enculturated to honor our family, even when they refuse to do the same. Just because they share our genes, no matter how much they hurt us, we're required to try and make them "see." I made the same choice over time; I only talk to my brother with any frequency.

Thank you as well for encouraging my sharing. I cringe every time I come back to this thread, expecting something...I don't know what. Even though I know, logically, that this is a supportive place, the shame that's festered in me for decades isn't done with me just yet.

I can't imagine the confusion that must have arisen with being in bed with your wife and suddenly having all of that come back. I'm glad that you didn't succeed in your suicide attempts. I think back to how close I came to acting when there really was a cause for all of my pain, I just didn't know what it was. The same was true for you; your deep psyche and body knew something the rest of you didn't. That knowledge was liberating in two senses; not only was I relieved to learn there was a reason for my pain. But it also opened the doors to authentic self-compassion for myself despite the slowness of the healing journey.

Writing is a healing exercise; I work as a writer right now but I'm changing careers to something more physical. One of the benefits is that I intend to start writing for myself again! Since I write thousands of words per day for work, I just don't have the desire to do any self-reflective or creative writing once the day is done. I'm not sure what direction my writing will take but it's definitely been on my mind.

Thanks again for your thoughts!

[dollyvee]

Hi Denervite,

I want to say that I think your post has had some ripple effects on the forum and I hope that helps, or starts to dispel, some of the shame you might be feeling.

I wanted to ask a little bit more about how the process went about uncovering these memories? For example, before a session did you set an intention and then memories surfaced during the MDMA session? Did they show up afterwards? Was it seeing something during the session and then bodily sensations afterwards, or vice versa? Did it happen slowly over time, or did they come back all at once? What was the person's role who helped facilitate the sessions? Is this something that worked well, or were there aspects that maybe could have been different? Did you need to establish a bond of trust with this person, and/or did/didn't feel it was/is relevant (in the same way that you don't have to have a traditional therapeutic relationship to have a successful IFS session). Please don't feel pressured to answer if it's not comfortable however. I'm just curious how it was.

I think you're right that your parents' reaction to what happened to you is more damaging than the abuse itself and I'm so sorry that you had to go through that and they weren't there to believe and support you at such a young age, and that you had to do that for yourself. Sending you a hug if it's ok 

So, a bit about me I recently came across my gm's psychological reports where one describes how there was some suspected SA regarding me because how I was behaving with other kids at the babysitters when I was four years old. I was taken to a clinic to be evaluated for SA, but nothing is said about it in the next report. The incident is down as a great motivating factor in helping my gm feel better about herself. So, anything that may have happened to me is absorbed into her feeling better about herself. I don't know if the subconscious message is don't remember because she'll be sad again? Or will disrupt how much better things have been in the family and it will be my fault that that happened? Or if nothing actually happened and maybe we were just playing doctor (though perhaps this is a stretch?) But it does add another layer to an experience that I don't think I should have had to deal with (either experience). It just leaves a lot of question marks.

Sending you support,
dolly

[Desert Flower]

Something else that came up for me in those sessions is that my parents' reaction was actually more traumatizing than the rape and grooming. Them completely demolishing what fragile sense of safety and trust I had left in the immediate aftermath of the SA was absolutely crippling for my psyche. I imagine you can relate to that feeling, Desert Flower. If I'd only been held and healed by them, the worst could have been avoided, was what I learned.

Yes, absolutely. So true. That's also what I heard Gabor Mate say a while ago. It's not that we as human beings cannot deal with being traumatised, it's the fact that we were (left) alone in it, that makes it unbearable. To me, it's unforgivable actually.

I'm so happy you found self-compassion because we need it. Thank you again for sharing. It's so powerful.

[Denverite]

I wanted to ask a little bit more about how the process went about uncovering these memories? For example, before a session did you set an intention and then memories surfaced during the MDMA session? Did they show up afterwards? Was it seeing something during the session and then bodily sensations afterwards, or vice versa? Did it happen slowly over time, or did they come back all at once? What was the person's role who helped facilitate the sessions? Is this something that worked well, or were there aspects that maybe could have been different? Did you need to establish a bond of trust with this person, and/or did/didn't feel it was/is relevant (in the same way that you don't have to have a traditional therapeutic relationship to have a successful IFS session). Please don't feel pressured to answer if it's not comfortable however. I'm just curious how it was.

Hi Dolly,

So to answer your questions, I set an intention the first few times with my guide. The first time, I simply wanted to know the source of my panic around people and depression. The next few times, I set specific intentions around how to work with my parts (I do use IFS language) and heal. In future sessions, I did set specific intentions to recover memories but I've found that they reveal themselves at their own pace. I can't make them come back to me and the times I'd try to force them in the medicine space, my mind would (gently) say no. We think of memory as something to be instantly recalled but deep traumatic material isn't like regular memories. They're more like memories that have been converted into a sort of biological encoding that you can't consciously access anymore. These days, I think I have most of the story now. But little surprises come back to me - for instance, I just recalled the guy's name a few months ago. And when I did, it felt like a big deal as there was something about his name that really made me say "yes. I knew that. I've always known that name."

The reveal of those old memories has been slow and included a lot of childhood material, not just the sexual abuse. Physical and emotional abuse from my parents would also arise to be processed. Sometimes it would be literal memories and experiences, other times more symbolic. My first MDMA session I only had a very faint memory of sexual abuse; the distinct sensation of being orally violated with no visuals attached, which I reported aloud to my guide. Sometimes it's seeing something, then bodily sensations, sometimes it's the reverse. Other times it's a purely intuitive knowledge that you really can't explain. The boundaries of traditional thoughts and feelings blur in the medicine space.

I've had 10 sessions over the course of two years, the first 4 guided and the rest done on my own. Each session would reveal a little bit more of the story, always at my mind's own pace. Trained guides are great if it's your first time using any psychedelic. They help you feel safe by providing a presence in the room that keeps you grounded. Psychedelics can get weird and while MDMA provides a feeling of supreme safety and peace, you're still processing experiences and emotions that could be overwhelming or scary. The guide is there to keep your attention on your inner world in case you get distracted - or to talk to you, if you feel that's what you need. They take notes of things you say, remind you to drink water and take supplements that ease the aftereffects, and provide integration services after the journey is done. Discussions on what you saw and how to apply the lessons learned to your life. Integration is as important, if not more important, than simply tripping.

I think a bond of trust is important, but how important it is depends on you, really. I had a lot of trust in my first but less in my second guide, who I decided to stop working with as a result. He wasn't bad, he just seemed less present with me and less understanding of my experiences. My first guide grew up in a family dynamic like mine, which we talked about before working together. But now I work alone since it's just too expensive to keep doing with a guide for now.

I hope some of this helps you. I can't say if such an experience would reveal potential SA in your past but it would absolutely be of benefit to your C-PTSD, regardless of the reason it's there. MDMA therapy is about revealing and healing relational wounds, which is what C-PTSD literally is.

[Chart]

Denverite, Can you suggest a  book dealing with Mdma Therapy? I'm curious what the healing practices would be "during" the "trip" as well as what "integration" would consist of afterwards. Thanks for all this info it's really interesting.

[Papa Coco]

I've done 12 Ketamine Infusions over a year. I just did my first MDMA with a guide last week. Both medications provided me a very safe, very loving experience. In fact, each treatment has moved me another step forward to making me a more loving person overall.

When I go into each of these treatments, MDMA or Ketamine, I prefer to not share the inner experience with the person in the room with me. Same when I do my gummies at home to help me sleep. As soon as the medication begins to work I go deep inside my own head and don't want to talk to anyone. It's like...hmmm...I'm ashamed of myself for being medicated and just want to be left alone with some music or total silence. Or maybe it's the safety factor: Being my authentic self has always been dangerous, so maybe when my hypervigilant brain goes to sleep, I feel so vulnerable that I choose to hide inside my head while the protective brain is offline??? I don't know. But I need to explore this.

My MDMA experience was 4 hours in heaven. My trained guide honored my silence. She'd told me that she would talk with me if that's what I wanted, or she'd sit quietly and keep an eye on me if that's how I preferred it

I'm very curious now, after reading Denverite's posts as to how I could be using these treatments to clear my own stuck points with my own CSA.

I sometimes think that my friends can see me more clearly than I see myself. I sometimes share my stories about my childhood that I think of as dumb stories that don't mean much, only to find out that my friends are confused as to why I don't think my past was that bad. I minimize my own abuse even to this day. Others are more shocked by my stories than I am. Today, I'm starkly aware that I'm still not accepting the true depths of all I've been through. It's taken me almost 40 years to understand as much as I do. I remember some of the abuse, and two of the parties responsible for it, but I am beginning to believe there's more there. More hiding in the darkness of my shadow self. Not so much hiding, as being hidden. Like I'm the one who stuffed the memories into a box and I'm the one who is still too frightened to open the boxes and look at what I've hidden from myself.

I wasn't planning to ever do MDMA again. It's very expensive. But as of this moment, I'm wondering what it would be like for me to go under one more time and do it sitting up and engaging with my guide, intentionally exploring the hidden caverns of my brain.  Under Ketamine I can't really talk. Speach is slurred. But under MDMA I had full control over my tongue and could easily do some talk therapy. I just...well...it felt so good to lay still and feel that all-consuming sense of pure love, that I just didn't want to talk to anyone. I just wanted to continue to feel like I was in the loving arms of peace and love and safety.

Up to now, I've felt like being quiet is the joy of the medication, but after reading Denverite's accounts of recovering memories while being in medication, I'm wondering if I've missed out on a chance to do some more work than just feeling the absolute peace and joy and love that I feel while under.

This morning, for the first time in a long time, I'm suddenly being drawn to wondering if I can reach the deeper damage done by the sexual abuse of my earliest years. I thought I'd done a pretty good job of getting to the bottom of if all, but today I'm feeling some rage and anger and terror I haven't felt in several months.

Now I'm curious if I should take a different approach and do the mdma one more time.... Dang. It's expensive and I feel ashamed of myself for spending so much money on myself. Shame. THAT's the biggest word of the day for me. I am still hiding some of my own memories because I feel shame. I feel like I caused the abuse, and I am still avoiding the shame by avoiding the recall of what was done to me. The shame is what's killing me. The shame is what's blocking me from total recall. I don't know what to do. I don't want to just keep throwing money into this if I'm not sure it will help.

Gads. Every answer I get, causes two new questions. What to do. What to do.

[Denverite]

Denverite, Can you suggest a  book dealing with Mdma Therapy? I'm curious what the healing practices would be "during" the "trip" as well as what "integration" would consist of afterwards. Thanks for all this info it's really interesting.

Oh, that's easy! The best book to learn about this stuff is "Trust Surrender Receive: How MDMA Can Release Us From Trauma and PTSD," by Anne Other. It is a mixture of stories from trauma survivors who underwent the therapy and what it was like before, during, and after. Plus Anne Other's expert knowledge on the medicine; it's history, how it works, and what you can expect. Pretty much required reading for anyone interested in MDMA therapy!

[Denverite]

Now I'm curious if I should take a different approach and do the mdma one more time.... Dang. It's expensive and I feel ashamed of myself for spending so much money on myself. Shame. THAT's the biggest word of the day for me. I am still hiding some of my own memories because I feel shame. I feel like I caused the abuse, and I am still avoiding the shame by avoiding the recall of what was done to me. The shame is what's killing me. The shame is what's blocking me from total recall. I don't know what to do. I don't want to just keep throwing money into this if I'm not sure it will help.

I really do think spending money on healing yourself is 100% worthwhile. Not if it's a financial strain, of course. But the way I see it, you are helping yourself to show up more authentically in the world. That is a gift. Not only for you but for everyone you interact with. By healing you're giving something to the entire world: your presence, your peace, your compassion, etc. Once we're no longer so tightly wound up in our pain we actually have something to offer others. So it's the opposite of being selfish!

For what its worth, my first MDMA journey only unlocked the door for my childhood SA. It took subsequent sessions to actually recover anything. Talk therapy would be super interesting with MDMA; I always felt compelled to go inwards. But I spoke a few times with him when things were "brewing" in the background. I could "see" how shame operated in real-time as I looked into his eyes, which was fascinating. Shame is huge for me as well; I remember saying once "shame is living my life."

I really want to do more of what you're talking about, though. Simply speaking to someone under the medicine. I haven't found the right way to do it since I have my own supply but can't afford guided sessions anymore. I just need a good friend to sit with me; still sorting that out, heh. But I'll get there.....

[Chart]

I forget which chapter, but towards the end of Cptsd, From Surviving to Thriving Pete Walker talks about "therapy exchange" with a trusted person. I personally think that most folks here on the forum could qualify for that role in all sorts of different capacities. Just a thought...

[dollyvee]

Thanks Denverite, I'm definitely going to look into that book!

It was also helpful to sort of know what to expect/how these things work. I'm pretty sure there's some parts (very young perhaps) that like to be in control, so they know what's going to happen and if they're safe etc. So, there's definitely a I need to know everything about this before I do it side to me.

That's also interesting that it lets those things come up without feeling overwhelming or scary and also interesting that it sort of prevented you from "doing too much" in a way, and would not let you access everything all at once. That's also an interesting description of how memories become stored in the body.

[Papa Coco]

Denverite

It would be awesome to sit with a fellow trauma survivor while on MDMA and talk talk talk about our experiences with CPTSD, self acceptance, Anger, Sadness, etc. It's not in the cards for today, but if we keep our eyes and ears open, we could find ourselves one day connected face to face with fellow trauma survivors.

 

[Chart]

 
I think this is definitely something to reflect upon and discuss.

[Denverite]

Denverite

It would be awesome to sit with a fellow trauma survivor while on MDMA and talk talk talk about our experiences with CPTSD, self acceptance, Anger, Sadness, etc. It's not in the cards for today, but if we keep our eyes and ears open, we could find ourselves one day connected face to face with fellow trauma survivors.

Honestly, I think that would be as healing as working with a therapist, maybe even more so. Being truly understood and seen by another under the medicine would be spectacular, I think. There are psychedelic groups in my area but they just hang out for fun...I'm too afraid to go with my MDMA as I think I'd say something...Awkward...And kill the party