Edit: Did anyone else grow up super close with the person who traumatized them?

[OwnSide]

Hi.

There were some great conversations in this thread and I'm really sorry for deleting it.

I've come to feel that some of the details that I wrote about my situation were potentially identifiable/specific to me. Theoretically nothing bad would happen if people in my life were to figure out that this account belonged to me and read some of my posts, but I'd much rather be in control of when and how such conversations are approached.

For a while I didn't want to edit any of my posts because I felt like I'd be gaslighting people (the words were there, now they're not, were they ever to begin with?). But leaving my posts as they were seemed to be hindering my ability to share on the forum (i.e. I had shared too much already, how could I dig deeper into my feelings when someone might find them?). I contemplated just deleting my own posts, but the information I was looking to remove was also threaded through others' responses. I also considered putting up a transcript of just the parts I was comfortable leaving, so people could still access what they had written, but then I would be taking away peoples' ability to modify their own content.

So instead, I have saved a copy of the transcript for myself to remember your lovely supportive words (please let me know if this is not allowed – I checked the member guidelines). If there is something you wrote that you want access to, please message me and I can pass it along.

I can see that this thread had a lot of views and I hope to start something equally useful in the future.

All the best,
OwnSide

[Papa Coco]

I'm very sorry that I missed out on this thread. But based on the title of it, I do have some thoughts:



I definitely grew up very, very close to my abusers. They were my family. If I didn't have them, I'd have nobody. They had me convinced that they were good and I was bad, and I was darn lucky they loved me despite the fact that I was useless, worthless, stupid, humiliating...and all the other nasty things they used to tell me I was. They had me convinced I would die if I didn't have them taking care of me.

When I finally pulled my head out of their sand, I saw the truth and I said, "They've finally gotten so ugly that even I can't love them anymore." That's the day, when I was 50 years of age, that I finally had the clarity of mind to walk away from the entire FOO and stop believing that they were abusing me because they cared about me.

[Chart]

TRIGGER WARNING

A child cannot but try and trust their caregivers. Everyone is different, but  after X number of betrayals, the curtain falls and for X amount of time we are naked and impotent. Then crawling out of the pit is Sisyphean. Developmental Trauma is the most horrible thing known to humans. It is prolonged and sometimes indefinite torture. It is the very closeness that defines it thus. Killing is immoral, but upon death all pain for the murdered ceases. Intentional and prolonged torture of children cannot be surpassed on the scale of human degradation.

[Kizzie]

No worries about keeping a copy Ownside, there's no reason to restrict members from doing so and no real way of enforcing a guideline to that effect.

I suspect there are quite a few survivors here who were/are enmeshed with their abuser, it's a way of staying safe when someone close to you doesn't respect boundaries (and we may not have a good handle on boundaries until we're older). We think it's closeness but it's something different as we come to realize over time. It can seem like love until we do something the abuser doesn't like then we find out it's a different animal. So not to beat yourself up if that's what you wrote about in the posts you deleted, it's quite common among survivors of relational trauma and very understandable. 

[Papa Coco]

Sometimes I think that our basic need to move away from pain is the only reason we put up with so much pain.

If people always move away from pain, then why would we stay with an abusive person? Maybe because we perceive that it will be even more painful to leave them. For so many reasons, (i.e.; guilt, shame, safety), we stay in the pain for fear it will hurt worse if we leave. A child can't run away from abusive parents if they don't believe they'll survive leaving. I didn't leave my FOO until I was 50 because I was terrified of living without them. Why? Because they'd spent 50 years telling me in every way possible that I wouldn't survive without their "tough love." They had ALSO covered the other base, saying that "poor old mom and dad won't survive me leaving". My parents were really good at making my little sister and I believe that they would die if we left them. In the last conversation I ever had with my little sister, she talked about how much she hated living in this city. I told her she was free to move. She had a husband that cherished her and would go anywhere just to stay with her. She replied "I can't leave or Mom and Dad will die." She took her own life a few weeks later. She could never overcome her belief that our parents would die without her. They did that to her. THEY did it to me too.

Two years later, on the anniversary of her death, I had to be rescued from a full-on suicide attempt myself. I had stayed in that family because I felt like I would feel too much guilt if I left them. When they finally became so dangerous that I could no longer survive them, then leaving suddenly became the least painful direction to move toward. So that's where I went. Away. Toward the least pain. Going No Contact was an easy decision once I saw that it was MORE painful to stay than to leave. I went to where I believed the least pain was.

One of my core favorite quotes:
   "And the time came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." -- Anaïs Nin

I believe that most of the reasons that we stay close to our abusers is because we fear that leaving them will hurt more than staying with them. That includes guilt. For 50 years, I knew I would feel too much guilt if I left my FOO.

Codependency is a magic spell that comes over us until one day we somehow see through it. Once the spell is broken, we are set free to wonder why we hadn't left them sooner.

[Desert Flower]

Pfff. Yes. That.

I am still 'close' to my mother, who was one of the people that severely traumatised me by emotional neglect and abandonment. I still think "poor old mom wouldn't survive me leaving". It would leave her heartbroken and she would never understand. And that would be my fault too, like everything else.

I think you're so brave Papa Coco for leaving and I think in your situation, it was definitely the right thing for you to do.

- Trigger warning maybe -

This week, I am so 'close' to my mother, it's very hard to bear. (Not really close of course, we never talk about anything important and we don't ever touch.) Little me thought I should take her along for our family holiday. Even though I knew I would find it very hard. I still feel I should take care of her. I had said I would take her quite a while ago, when I was not yet aware of how traumatic the situation is/was actually, I only very recently came to see it for what it is/was.

I took Pete Walker's book with me to remind myself what I'm feeling is not crazy. And I was afraid to go on the forum today cause she might ask what I'm writing.

But I came this far and I am now writing. I know what's going on. I'll get through this week somehow. If only because of this forum where I can speak my mind. My blossoming here is speaking my mind at least if it's not leaving. I'm so glad the forum's  here.

While I'm on this holiday, I try to not shut down completely, and not get too close to her. She just keeps on looking at me all the time I feel, following my every move (it may just be me, I don't know) and I'm feeling she's thinking I'm doing everything wrong all the time. I feel like I'm having to explain what I'm doing all the time. (And little me still wants her approval of course, which she will never give.) And part of me thinks, if I can take her along, it can't be all that bad (but it is!). And she has this hurt, jarred look on her face the whole time. Her face looks frozen in a cramp. And I feel I should comfort her more and I can't anymore, I won't, she's just impossible. She never says what she really wants and it makes me feel I should guess, it drives me crazy. And she always says not to bother on her account. I never know whether I'm doing anything right. All she ever says is what I should't do. I just feel totally inadequate. There, that's how I feel. At least I know that. Even though I feel I should be apologizing for it. Sorry for ranting.

And I really don't know how I'm going to keep taking care of her while she gets older and more dependent and this could last for years. And now that I took her along once, I feel I will have to do it every time. I'll think about that after she's gone home (we're staying another week without her, that was the best I could do for myself.) I really don't think I could separate myself from her. I can only think of using my survival techniques: not feeling anything. I'm not sure I can anymore, though.

[Chart]

DF, I so hear your struggle. I'm so sorry. It's so hard. I know. I hear you. You're not imagining things. The positive is you're aware, and you're working it out. Seems like going round in circles, but you ARE working on it. And it is hard.
Sending love and support.
-chart
 

[Desert Flower]

Thank you Chart, that helps

[Chart]

 

[Kizzie]

Many parents do become more dependent as they age and it is a tug about how much we need/want to look out for them.

When my parents were alive and my F's health declined we convinced my parents to go to an assisted living residence and what a godsend to know they were taken care of 24/7. There were lots of other people and staff to take up their attention too which meant we slowly moved out of their sphere and eventually my H and I moved across the country (not suggesting you do that, it's just what we chose to do).  It was a good move on our part; very little guilting from them because their needs were looked after.

There's some good info here about distancing yourself - https://www.cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=6846.0.  We also have some good articles about dealing with aging parents somewhere I just have to find it.

 

[Desert Flower]

Thank you Kizzie for pointing out these resources, I will definitely look into them!

And I think indeed my brother and I will decide to put her in a home when the time comes ... Thank you for understanding. I feel very guilty about this.

[Chart]

Please reflect about your guilt feelings DF, the feelings are valid but what are they really telling you?
 

[Desert Flower]

Yes, I know Chart, when I wrote this I knew already. Not to blame myself. But I wanted to write it anyway because it is how I feel. And how I'm used to feeling. But I am very sure that my guilt is a whole lot less then it was two months ago, when I still had no idea what was going on. That's what I wanted to add. Even if I don't change my situation immediately, it may take some time and baby steps, but I feel so much better now that I read Pete Walkers' book and now that I'm on this forum, it makes me feel so much less crazy and almost all right sometimes. Thanks to you and this whole community  It really helps.

[NarcKiddo]

I was horrendously enmeshed with M from my teens until my 30s. Then I started feeling something was wrong. From my 40s I realised what I was dealing with and have been steadily pulling away ever since.

I had to spend time with FOO recently and my mother was mentioning old age care. Both parents are getting to the point where it could be imminent. F is in his 80s and M will soon get there. Neither is in tip top health to put it mildly.

M has realised she can no longer rule with an iron fist so has been changing her tactics to the needy, waify little old lady act. I find that quite difficult to resist but every so often she shows her true colours and my resolve is strengthened.

M has always said she does not want to go into a home and says their house is large enough to have a live in carer. That much is true. She thinks it would be far cheaper. I did point out that if they should need care 24/7 or near enough then their home is not large enough because one carer cannot be expected to work 24/7. And then it would probably not be cheaper and the care would also probably be less reliable. I most certainly did not jump in to say I would offer any care. I simply cannot and will not. She recently asked me to help with something and I refused. My excuse was good but I am starting to establish a pattern (I hope) where she realises that I will simply not step up in the way she would want. My sibling does occasionally step up and will likely try to guilt trip me to do so as well, so I am not much looking forward to that.

[Desert Flower]

Thank you for pointing out these resources Kizzie, I just watched the SoL video "The capacity to give up on people": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDKOY0ZTDPI. And that resonates a lot, and it is very difficult to accept just yet. But I know it's true. I feel so much better now that my m is back home, not being in the same space with her all the time anymore and contact with her is now back to texting for a while. I simply cannot relax when she's around.