EMDR

[Little2Nothing]

I am going to be starting EMDR next week. I was wondering if anyone has done this therapy and if it was effective. 

If anyone has, were there any negatives to the therapy? I'm not really sure what to expect. 

[Chart]

L2N, My Emdr therapist plunged right in. No buildup or preparation. It wasn't horrible because I already knew most of my traumatic memories. But I didn't pursue the line of "finding more memories" because I feel it is counter productive at this point. I stopped Emdr after three or four sessions.

My advice is to research the technique on the internet. Be aware it's about reviving and finding lost memories. It the therapist is not trauma savvy this can be delicate. Of course the idea is to "process" these memories, but some therapists just don't know how overwhelmingly violent some of these things can be.

Spend time with the therapist to be really clear what you're going to do. Trust and experience are critical I think.

Hope that helps a litte.
Hugs, chart

[Little2Nothing]

Chart, thanks. I don't want to remember what I do remember. She did say it could resurrect memories, that part makes me uneasy. 

However,  I really want to get past all this. I'm going to give it a try and see how it goes. 

[Cascade]

Hi Little2Nothing,
Sorry I missed your question earlier.  It sounds like you know about the possibility of triggering and are willing to go ahead.  I agree with Chart that clarity, trust, and experience are crucial.  I've been working for six weeks with an EMDR therapist, and we are going to do the first trial run with a minimal trigger next Thursday.  We've been working a lot with safety exercises to fall back on in case the unexpected trigger does arise.  We've been doing pieces here and there, even getting comfortable with my little ones... a lot of preparation work.

Hi group,
I wasn't sure where to put this; feel free to move it.  Things have been a little fragmented for me since starting therapy about six weeks ago.  This is my attempt to start fitting some of the pieces together.  I've been working on some of these pieces in therapy, but also started some of it on my own through psychoeducation and by using this forum before I found my therapist.

This is kind of a big picture of some steps to expect in the healing process.  My therapist and I had a review day yesterday.  The first three steps are what she laid out.  I added the fourth one to remind me that we're setting expectations.  I'd been getting upset about not being "fully functional" yet.  My therapist pointed out that things I thought to be stabilization (like returning to work) were more realistically likely to happen after some of the most intense processing is behind me.  Stabilization is more like just meeting basic needs and trying new coping skills... the first two steps.

Of course, the disclaimer is that this is the plan I discussed with my therapist.  It was helpful to know she is facilitating or guiding me along a known path, and that she is being transparent about what to expect along this particular path.  Everyone's path is different.  This is where I am!
  -Cascade


Healing Plan

1.  Establish trust

• This began with myself, by seeing that I could actually minimize my life and manage to take care of my own basic needs.
• It remains a work in progress.  Whether I actually do take care of myself is still hit or miss, though gradually improving.
• In therapy, this is establishing trust with the therapist.

2.  Gather resources

• Continue to meet basic needs.
• Practice neuropathways of safety and protection.
• Practice neuropathways of comfort.
• Practice neuropathways of success (to feel big instead of small).
• Practice neuropathways of play.

3.  Process trauma

• Trial run with a small, minor trigger.
• Identify negative cognitions (beliefs).
• Work with several larger triggers and arising cognitions.
• Reprocessing will naturally flow to other instances and triggers.
• Slowly dissolve the shame-based identity.

4.  Return to functionality

• Working
• Social activities

Good on ya for your courage!  Hope it goes well. 🤞
   -Cascade

[Little2Nothing]

Thank you, Cascade!  The healing plan is helpful. My T said we would have to establish safety and develop strong grounding techniques. 

Even so, I still feel apprehensive about drudging up things I forgot for a reason!  Haha I am probably anticipating problems that may not exist. 

[Cascade]

Excellent, Little2Nothing!  You're as ready as you'll ever be. 

I do empathize with your apprehension.  Even if unexpected things happen, it sounds like you're in a place to be able to deal with them.  AND of course, we're here for you, too!

   -Cascade

[Chart]

L2N, YOU are choosing the time, place and manner for "reviving" lost memories. This is extremely important. When you "choose", it's you that's taking control. It's you wading into the fray of battle. Terrifying as it may be, it is also courageous and deserving of recognition. Before, Trauma was calling the shots... Now YOU are taking control of your healing and future. This is an enormous progress.

[Blueberry]

Thank you, Cascade!  The healing plan is helpful. My T said we would have to establish safety and develop strong grounding techniques.

Even so, I still feel apprehensive about drudging up things I forgot for a reason!  Haha I am probably anticipating problems that may not exist.

I haven't done EMDR so far either, except a brief spot in inpatient T where my therapist tried it out briefly. It didn't seem to change the intensity of the topic at hand but it was kind of neat the way I could feel and sense things being re-slotted in my brain over the next 2-3 days - there was definitely an effect and I don't remember it being bad or scary, just interesting... My present outpatient T said that in an inpatient setting a T can experiment like that but outpatient it works differently.

Unfortunately you're probably not anticipating problems that may not exist but rather anticipating problems that might very well exist! As in, one would be lucky if there were no kind of internal inner backlash.

I would say in addition to the healing plan - I've seen similar before - that it's not completely linear. Healing from trauma seems to involve those onion layers - you keep going back to the same 'topic' but at a deeper level of understanding and healing. So in my experience I've been working on two different steps at the same time, maybe one more actively than passively etc. And even when you get to Step 4, you might very well have to go back to Step 1 or 2. Unfortunately. I'd like to think that when you're doing EMDR that's not the case, but apparently even EMDR isn't a kind of magic wand. I wish it was...

This thread from here on down www.cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=15081.msg129292#msg129292 contains some information on this from my experience.

[Blueberry]

LTN, sorry my mouse is causing problems, I need to save post and start a new one before I lose everything.

My present T is definitely considering EMDR for CSA with me. But she also says there are preparatory steps we have to do first. Some of that is about safety and grounding techniques. She probably wants to make sure that a) she knows what I'll fall back on and b) that I'll be able to reach my stabilising techniques. It's one thing to know what you can do, it's another to actually be so well practised in it that you actually do it. Of course, that goes for any trauma healing method.

I can really emphasise with not wanting to dredge things up, but I realise by now that in my case they come up anyway just not in ways that are immediately recognisable as CSA-related. I imagine it's the same for any other type of childhood trauma.

More people on this forum have done EMDR than have responded. If you have time and the wherewithal to do a search, that could be helpful too.

[Little2Nothing]

Blueberry I appreciate your response. My biggest fear is an increase in symptons. I just need to let the process work and if it becomes to much I can always stop until I can handle it. 

I do know that I cannot continue on as things have been. I suppose thenold saying, "nothing ventured, nothing gained!"  

Everyone's responses are encouraging and it os good to be surrounded by such care and concern. Thanks!

[Blueberry]

My biggest fear is an increase in symptons. I just need to let the process work and if it becomes to much I can always stop until I can handle it.

I think this bit I underlined is the most important. I understand your fear too. Unfortunately sometimes stuff gets worse before it gets better   but as I think Chart mentioned - the difference now is that you're in control of it.

I'm glad you have medical insurance that will allow you to be in control, as in stop or pause. In the UK it doesn't seem to work that way, or at least not with the nhs. But you're not there and nor am I.

[ohsnap113]

I've done 3-4 sessions of EMDR after the preparatory resourcing. 1 session in particular seemed to help contextualize a childhood memory around sexual abuse that I felt a lot of shame for. I was able to see myself as an innocent child and how ridiculous it was to blame myself.

Our next session was around a different childhood sexual abuse memory, and was met with a lot of internal resistance. I've always been impatient to fix myself, so I wanted to dive in. Some part of me was so unbelievably angry for attempting to do EMDR around this memory. Perhaps it was my attitude toward it—trying to rid of the emotional damage instead of sitting with my inner child compassionately. I communicated the intensity of this resistance to my therapist and it seemed to startle him a bit. He was a middle aged guy with lots of wisdom, but quite new to the profession. We were both kind of scared to return to that memory, and that was my last session of EMDR.

I'm not a mental health professional whatsoever, but I do agree with those who contend that EMDR isn't the most helpful for complex trauma. EMDR professionals will emphasize that the procedure can be done around a feeling, idea, or core belief; however, it seems like it's best designed to target a particular memory. The nature of complex trauma is that, in many cases, no one memory is solely responsible for the damaged caused.

To my knowledge—and please correct me if I'm wrong; I'd love to learn more—no research has been done to determine whether the bilateral stimulation component of EMDR is therapeutically necessary. Maybe all that's really needed is conjuring a painful memory and processing it with a professional. Somatic therapy is another vehicle for re-contextualizing past memories. Some professionals say that the bilateral stimulation in EMDR mimics sleep REM cycles, where unconscious memories are processed and integrated into long-term memory. Scientifically speaking, the dream state is infinitely more complex than simply stimulating both hemispheres of the brain.

For these reasons I'm skeptical of this modality of therapy. It's likely that I have a fear of the procedure given my last experience with it. Perhaps if I tried EMDR with a gentler attitude and expressed my skepticism to my therapist, I'd have a better experience and change my mind. However, EMDR is often touted as a panacea. It offers a cure to my emotional pain; an intense, but relatively fast cure. I just feel like healing for complex trauma will inherently be a complex process. It's certainly not the case that all important work must be long and arduous, but there is an achievement mindset built into these types of acute trauma healing that doesn't resonate with me.

I don't mean to invalidate anyone's experience or excitement around EMDR. Psychologist Ellen Langer famously states that any therapy—medication or otherwise—is only as effective as the patient's belief that it will work. This speaks to the power of rituals and spirituality for healing—modalities that have much less empirical support. "What works" must then be fairly specific to the individual. Whichever route we choose to take, at least we're not alone 

[Armee]

Our next session was around a different childhood sexual abuse memory, and was met with a lot of internal resistance. I've always been impatient to fix myself, so I wanted to dive in. Some part of me was so unbelievably angry for attempting to do EMDR around this memory. Perhaps it was my attitude toward it—trying to rid of the emotional damage instead of sitting with my inner child compassionately. I communicated the intensity of this resistance to my therapist and it seemed to startle him a bit. He was a middle aged guy with lots of wisdom, but quite new to the profession. We were both kind of scared to return to that memory, and that was my last session of EMDR.

I'm sorry to hear that your limited experience with EMDR didn't turn out well, OhSnap. I think your description here really underlines an important part of all therapy for trauma. There is not a one size fits all approach, it is not as easy or effective for complex trauma as it is for simple trauma, and you need to work with someone who knows what they are doing.

 I'm a bit sad to hear that what happened in therapy with you caused you and your therapist to just stop and not return to this in a more skilled way. I don't think it is quite fair to write off a therapeutic approach because it didn't go well in the hands of someone inexperienced (since you said your therapist is new to the field).

I just want to offer another point of view for others who may be considering EMDR. I've used EMDR with a good therapist. For complex trauma and dissociation it takes much much much much longer than others tend to experience it. It is not a magic bullet but it is very helpful. In my experience a good therapist would have - yes - pulled back from EMDR in your case in order to work with the resistant parts first and to get them on board. But not to just abandon the approach as too scary or ineffective. Maybe one day you'll want to try again with a therapist who has significant  experience in all 3 of these things: complex trauma, EMDR, and IFS and someone who can weave these things together.

In any case I hope that the somatic work helps resolve things for you. I find somatic work also to be helpful. 

I've posted my experience elsewhere I'll post again here: I've worked with the same therapist for 6 years now. When I began he was mainly trained in CBT and DBT. Over the years I've worked with him he has learned a lot more...mostly because the tools he had weren't adequate for treating complex trauma. He added EMDR first, maybe around year 3 of working with me. We did that for a couple years and it wasn't as smooth as it should be but we kept working at it and it is now a useful tool. For several months I could not even follow the eye movements. My eyes would spin in circles or I would just fall asleep. So yeah no it isn't easy with complex trauma. But it's been very helpful. He then learned mostly because it wasn't working as smoothly with me as it should that he needs to work with parts. So he learned IFS and we began to combine the 2 approaches. That has been really key to healing for me. And patience. So much patience. It takes forever with complex trauma and dissociative disorders.

[Chart]

I second what Armee wrote. I've done Emdr with an experienced trauma therapist and an inexperienced one. The difference is identifying what is "simple" traumatic situations and what is rather linked to long periods of mistreatment. In my opinion, Emdr works extremely well with specific memory events that were stressful. But it doesn't work with the impact of the toxic behavior of my narcissistic mother over three decades. That's a whole other kettle of fish.
 

I appreciated your observation Ohsnap, about spirituality. I agree, but I'd also would like to suggest that even things that are foreign to us initially can with time find a place in our toolbox of healing techniques. Ultimately, time and consistent work are the sure paths to recovery. But being open is in my opinion important too.

(It also helps to be courageous as all heck! )

[AphoticAtramentous]

Hey Little2Nothing,
Sorry if you've answered it elsewhere on the forum but I hope the EMDR sessions have been going well for you since you started a few months ago.

Regards,
Aphotic.