Dissociation and learning

[livingdeadgirl]

Has anyone else experienced forgetting things you had learned previously because you dissociate so much during and after the experience that you don't actually recall that knowledge later and feel as if you are a person approaching the subject for the first time even if you distinctly remember learning it before?

For example, I learned Spanish not just since elementary school but also studied in college with my ultimate goal being to move to Spain. Now I feel like a person who retained almost none of that even though I distinctly remember learning it and like my grammar and vocabulary isn't much better than a person just learning the language from a beginner level. Maybe I'm not giving myself enough credit since there is some amount of automatic "knowing" grammar concepts beyond what someone approaching the language from zero knowledge would know or assume. But I feel behind where I should be and sometimes triggered (because of a sense of inferiority, stupidity, failure which were constant themes of abuse and humiliation during childhood even though I was a Gifted child and good student whose ADHD was overlooked, but my narcissistic mother hated me and never rewarded me for academic achievements or recognized them as real and wanted me to be perceived and to perceive myself as stupid similar to Matilda, and I have been relentlessly mocked as stupid by others in adulthood or presumed to be inferior to other people on the basis of racial or sexist discrimination and exclusion in tech and scientific spaces and because of how dysregulation and other symptoms of CPTSD can present to other people who don't understand it from the outside) by the mistakes I make and how I'm not fluent in it.

I realize much of my college experience has vanished from my brain along with the knowledge I should have. I remember learning things and can struggle to recall some of it but it feels fuzzy at best and during the most stressful and retraumatizing parts of it everything is just blank. I don't know how I will ever "catch up" to other people my age (25) or escape the loop of having been conditioned to believe I was stupid despite all evidence, then interpreting every mistake I make or the symptoms of trauma as stupidity (sometimes with external retraumatizing abuse added on) and feeling paralyzed now when it comes to applying anything I learned or displaying any form of knowledge skill or creativity.

I don't know how precisely to articulate the paralysis I feel but I didn't realize the component of dissociating through school and no longer identifying with being someone who has knowledge or skills in the area I studied despite external evidence to the contrary. It adds to present dissociation and depersonalization feeling like an impostor because there is no continuity between the "me" from then and my sense of self now, and because I don't understand my own life and how I ended up where I am (downward trajectory despite promising potential because of trauma ruining everything, but trying to explain it to other people or forgive myself for it feels impossible and like further confirmation that my mother was right).

I wondered if anyone else experienced something like this from CPTSD that began in childhood and the symptoms affecting you during school.

[AphoticAtramentous]

Has anyone else experienced forgetting things you had learned previously because you dissociate so much during and after the experience that you don't actually recall that knowledge later and feel as if you are a person approaching the subject for the first time even if you distinctly remember learning it before?

I definitely have experienced this before, you're not alone. Not just in school but from things I allegedly learnt in my home environment as well. I think however, it's not that we've completely lost those teachings - but that they've been locked away and we need to uncover them to gain back the information that we've learnt in the past. I wish we didn't have to work twice as hard to learn things but it's not like our teachings all went to waste either.

But I feel behind where I should be and sometimes triggered (because of a sense of inferiority, stupidity, failure which were constant themes of abuse and humiliation during childhood even though I was a Gifted child

It was the same for me too. It is soul crushing, to fear failure and inadequacy at every waking moment because of our frozen pain.

It adds to present dissociation and depersonalization feeling like an impostor because there is no continuity between the "me" from then and my sense of self now, and because I don't understand my own life and how I ended up where I am

This as well is very relatable. I often have to stop and wonder "how the * did I get here?", and feeling like there's a huge gap between me and my past self.
I'm sorry you're going through these frustrations right now.

Regards,
Aphotic.

[Beijaflor57]

Livingdeadgirl, I can relate to much of what you shared. You are by no means alone in feeling inferior or 'behind' due to what you've been through.

A quick word about learning languages, though, for which you should not feel stupid at all: the only way to truly learn any language is to immerse yourself in it as much as possible and consistently use it. I say this as someone who's studied several languages and has a B.A. in linguistics (enthusiastic language nerd here!  ), so I have both practical experience and theoretical knowledge about how language acquisition works. I also studied Spanish in high school and at the college level, but was woefully bad at communicating in Spanish with any level of fluency until I worked, for almost four years, at a job with Spanish-speakers. This job required me to communicate in Spanish on a daily basis. Boy did that improve my Spanish quickly! I'm now fairly fluent.

So don't beat yourself up about your Spanish skills. They're there--you just need to put them to use. And give yourself grace for mistakes. Mistakes are the natural part of the process of becoming fluent in a language. I'm now an ESL teacher, and I tell my students never to feel bad about mistakes in their English--mistakes are how we learn!

About the whole dissociation business...I get that too. I didn't realize that was what was going on at the time, but I struggled throughout my college experience with cognitive difficulties due to dissociation and the effects of recent and ongoing traumatic experiences. Unfortunately, the abuse I was being subjected to in my family escalated as I pursued my masters degree in recent years, and it got so bad during my final year that I was forced to take a leave of absence. I simply couldn't focus on my studies. Fortunately, I was finally able to go low-contact and put some physical and emotional distance between me and the abusers, and I graduated this past May with my degree. But it was a degree I had to really grit my teeth to earn. And I still feel sometimes that I didn't retain much of what I learned.

So please have grace and compassion for yourself. You are not alone in these struggles, and I truly hope things get better for you.   

[Chart]

Yeah to ALL that above, LDG... I'm the same. My Cptsd crisis last September completely wiped my brain. I cannot retain ANY information now. Everything is a massive struggle.
I'm starting Neurofeedback therapy this coming Saturday. I'm literally down on my hands and knees praying to a god I don't believe in that I can start to get some relief.

The best I manage at the moment is self-forgiveness for feeling like such a complete pathetic imbecile...

I know from experience my current mental state will change. I know this rationally... affectively of course it's a different matter...

I once read a book and when I got to the last page "remembered" that I'd already read it...

[NarcKiddo]

My experience is similar but different. I was expected to get good grades and woe betide if I did not. The school also wanted to boast about the grades achieved by its pupils. So basically the idea was to drop everything that was hard (unless it was a core part of the curriculum) and choose subjects you could get good grades for. I did not really bother cultivating an interest for any subject because what mattered was the grade, not my interest. I learned things to pass exams. I retained information for that purpose and then it's as if it just vanished. Like a computer file I deleted because I had no further use for it. (It did not fully vanish, and decades later I can recall things that I could not remember a few months after the exam  )

[Chart]

NarcKiddo, The "messed-upness" of people never ceases to dumbfound me...

[Kizzie]

livingdeadgirl, I've definitely had this experience too and based on the responses to your post I hope you know you are not alone.  I can't speak to the mechanics of learning and retaining a language itself, but what I can share with you is about dissociation.

When I realized I was dissociating a LOT, I worked super hard to be present when I was learning and then when I was teaching (I'm a retired prof of education). I had a T who helped me with that, so much so that I can't dissociate anymore (but that's another story). Dissociation does interfere with processing and retention in learning, that I do know so if you can try and be really present when learning/using the language that should help as will the other suggestions above such as immersing yourself and working in Spanish whenever possible. 

[livingdeadgirl]

Has anyone else experienced forgetting things you had learned previously because you dissociate so much during and after the experience that you don't actually recall that knowledge later and feel as if you are a person approaching the subject for the first time even if you distinctly remember learning it before?

I definitely have experienced this before, you're not alone. Not just in school but from things I allegedly learnt in my home environment as well. I think however, it's not that we've completely lost those teachings - but that they've been locked away and we need to uncover them to gain back the information that we've learnt in the past. I wish we didn't have to work twice as hard to learn things but it's not like our teachings all went to waste either.

But I feel behind where I should be and sometimes triggered (because of a sense of inferiority, stupidity, failure which were constant themes of abuse and humiliation during childhood even though I was a Gifted child

It was the same for me too. It is soul crushing, to fear failure and inadequacy at every waking moment because of our frozen pain.

It adds to present dissociation and depersonalization feeling like an impostor because there is no continuity between the "me" from then and my sense of self now, and because I don't understand my own life and how I ended up where I am

This as well is very relatable. I often have to stop and wonder "how the * did I get here?", and feeling like there's a huge gap between me and my past self.
I'm sorry you're going through these frustrations right now.

Regards,
Aphotic.

Sometimes, I feel that trying to get back to myself and realizing I'm the" same" person only makes me feel more resentful about aging with CPTSD and the time I feel I've lost to this disorder. Like rewinding and starting again from an earlier point trying to get ahead because the "me" now is in crimcumstances that could've been better if the "me" before didn't freeze or fail at earlier things. Like if I had not struggled so much in university, or not dated at all duro g school and never ended up in an abusive relationship that sabotaged me further than cptsd already did, if I had not ended up leaving that relationship to rebuild from homelessness and still not have a job in the field I graduated in (tech) 2.5 years later because I had to take anything that came along to get by but now that's a mark against me on my resume...etc. It feels like being the same core self as the woman who had everything going for her before it all went wrong and who finally escaped the abusive family and the community full of enablers and proxy abusers to go to university is like starting again being a "me" before all that happened, but I can't actually rewind it and change the outcome to get back her youth or her trajectory. I don't know how exactly to describe the pain or how confusing that feels. It's like waking up one day as myself in the wrong life and not even wanting to be present because everything in my life is a reminder and a trigger. Sorry to be so depressing.

My experience is similar but different. I was expected to get good grades and woe betide if I did not. The school also wanted to boast about the grades achieved by its pupils. So basically the idea was to drop everything that was hard (unless it was a core part of the curriculum) and choose subjects you could get good grades for. I did not really bother cultivating an interest for any subject because what mattered was the grade, not my interest. I learned things to pass exams. I retained information for that purpose and then it's as if it just vanished. Like a computer file I deleted because I had no further use for it. (It did not fully vanish, and decades later I can recall things that I could not remember a few months after the exam  )

I remember back in high school telling a teacher I was struggling (I was living with trauma and undiagnosed ADHD, allegedly, though I still wonder if it wasn't just trauma symptoms misdiagnosed as ADHD in adulthood and gaslight myself about it even though the diagnosing physician was aware I have diagnosed CPTSD) and she recommended that I just figure out which assignments I could skip and still have a good grade etc instead of seeing it as a cry for help. She was part of a larger issue where nothing mattered except grades and it was expected for students to struggle and seen as a sign of how great the school was and how advanced the classes were and anyone that couldn't keep up with the extreme stress was just considered stupid - - especially if you were poor and not white because of the demographics of the school and the unspoken reality that it was only "supposed" to be for rich and white people in a very segregated city. I think often about how every adult outside my household who could have helped me did not, not because there weren't any clear issues or cries for help by me but because their priorities were never on the well being of myself or any other children in their care. It is a societal epidemic that still scares me.

Yeah to ALL that above, LDG... I'm the same. My Cptsd crisis last September completely wiped my brain. I cannot retain ANY information now. Everything is a massive struggle.
I'm starting Neurofeedback therapy this coming Saturday. I'm literally down on my hands and knees praying to a god I don't believe in that I can start to get some relief.

The best I manage at the moment is self-forgiveness for feeling like such a complete pathetic imbecile...

I know from experience my current mental state will change. I know this rationally... affectively of course it's a different matter...

I once read a book and when I got to the last page "remembered" that I'd already read it...

I find that I cannot seem to remember things even if I remember that I enjoyed it, with rare exception. I cannot for example explain the plot of Lord of the Rings even on a basic level though I've read it several times and consider myself a fan because it is notably the only fantasy series I could get all the way through (usually bored by clichés or lackluster world building) and at one point was obsessed with it. I thought it was just me.

I hope you do find relief from the new therapy

Livingdeadgirl, I can relate to much of what you shared. You are by no means alone in feeling inferior or 'behind' due to what you've been through.

A quick word about learning languages, though, for which you should not feel stupid at all: the only way to truly learn any language is to immerse yourself in it as much as possible and consistently use it. I say this as someone who's studied several languages and has a B.A. in linguistics (enthusiastic language nerd here!  ), so I have both practical experience and theoretical knowledge about how language acquisition works. I also studied Spanish in high school and at the college level, but was woefully bad at communicating in Spanish with any level of fluency until I worked, for almost four years, at a job with Spanish-speakers. This job required me to communicate in Spanish on a daily basis. Boy did that improve my Spanish quickly! I'm now fairly fluent.

So don't beat yourself up about your Spanish skills. They're there--you just need to put them to use. And give yourself grace for mistakes. Mistakes are the natural part of the process of becoming fluent in a language. I'm now an ESL teacher, and I tell my students never to feel bad about mistakes in their English--mistakes are how we learn!

About the whole dissociation business...I get that too. I didn't realize that was what was going on at the time, but I struggled throughout my college experience with cognitive difficulties due to dissociation and the effects of recent and ongoing traumatic experiences. Unfortunately, the abuse I was being subjected to in my family escalated as I pursued my masters degree in recent years, and it got so bad during my final year that I was forced to take a leave of absence. I simply couldn't focus on my studies. Fortunately, I was finally able to go low-contact and put some physical and emotional distance between me and the abusers, and I graduated this past May with my degree. But it was a degree I had to really grit my teeth to earn. And I still feel sometimes that I didn't retain much of what I learned.

So please have grace and compassion for yourself. You are not alone in these struggles, and I truly hope things get better for you.   

Thanks for the insight about language acquisition. It is true that I didn't really use Spanish that much in my day to day life even while I was studying it actively back then, so I suppose I can't expect myself to be at B2 level now picking it back up. I think what I struggle with is in a similar vein of expecting a lot of myself or else I'm irredeemably stupid, due to my upbringing - - I recall my parents sabotaging everything I did whether it be my mother blaring music all night to deprive me of sleep or concentration before school or actually discouraging me from practicing an instrument because I wasn't immediately perfect at it and they used the excuse of "the neighbors complaining" though no one ever did and it was only them who didn't want me to develop a skill, typical of their extreme jealousy - - they also broke a bicycle I had won through my grades in elementary school and used the excuse that they were "fixing" the brakes (which was never broken) while I was out at school. Describing it now highlights how insane it is for two adults to be that miserable and mean-spirited towards a child and that insulting in assuming that I (as a child) wouldn't pick up on the fact that Iwas intentional and they're literally real life mustache twirling villains who thought they were hiding it. Sorry for the tangent, it's just that I'm only now connecting the dots on why I'm so adverse to having to learn or practice anything because I lived with saboteurs whose messaging was either that my not being immediately perfect at it was proof of inferiority or just stopped me from trying at all.

I can't believe they're still free to live their life and give everyone an alternate story about why I haven't spoken to them in years and they have no idea what my life is like now and lost likely will never face real consequences for the amount of harm they have done to me and the pain I still live with. These miserable bastards probably still don't believe they're in the wrong or that I know just how far the extent of their evil and malice went, like they got away with it. It's the most infuriating thing and sometimes I think I would feel peace if they died, but then I think in their last moments they wouldn't have an epiphany and suffocate with guilt shame or remorse - - so it would be for nothing except the peace of knowing they will never be able to stalk me, try to contact me, or utter another lie on my name ever again. Their lack of suffering for what they have done is one of the things that makes moving on so difficult. Sorry to derail but I couldn't help but add that - - on some level deep down my inner child and the present adult me want every single enabler and proxy abuser in their community to know all the things they've done and who they really are and for them to live under the weight of that without being able to use me as the scapegoat or hide behind sympathetic "parent as victim of how hard parenting is, victim of a child born bad, victim of a child turned bad by (nonexistent) drugs and bad influences that turned them against us etc etc" stories that parents like them hide behind and get so much sympathy for.

[Chart]

LDG, your story tears at my heart. I'm so sorry for all the things you suffered. It sounds absolutely horrible. I think your anger is so valid. Sending hugs and support... hope that's okay.