When A Parent Denies CSA

[Desert Flower]

You're right to be angry Papa Coco, very much so. It's unbearable that people will not protect the child for keeping up appearances. Unforgivable if you ask me. I'm very very sorry you had to go through that.

[Blueberry]

Thank you for keeping us up-to-date on what's going on beyond OOTS in this kind of respect, Kizzie.

To anybody who might be interested, there's an article on OOTS blog by Martin Miller from April 2019 www.outofthestorm.website/guest-bloggers?month=04-2019

PapaCoco, I hear and feel your pain and your anger.

[Little2Nothing]

I share Papa coco's anger. Having been sexually abused as a child by mutiple people, and having been given to one by my M, I have no love for predators or their enablers. 

Nor do I have empathy for those who would protect an abuser rather than the child. There should be sever penalties for the abuser and the protector. Both are guilty of the same crime. Neither should be exhonerated. 

The sad thing is that there is little accountability for the rape and abuse of a child. Many pedophiles are given a slap on the wrist, where the child has to carry the weight of what was done for the rest of their lives. 

None of it is fair. None of it is right. 

[Kizzie]

Tks BB for reminding me we have a blog article by Martin Miller that he wrote just before his book came out. I think of him often because of the precarious nature of having been abused by a very famous and beloved trauma clinician. It was incredibly brave of him to speak up and risk the backlash that did come his way.

I asked him to write an article for OOTS as our way of saying "We believe you!" Three very powerful words all survivors need to hear IMO.

The fact that the other Alice's (Munro - famous Canadian writer) denial of the abuse of her daughter by her stepfather got a lot of attention is really positive IMO. It indicates more of a willingness in society to bring these horrible stories out into the light of day.

And that's what we're doing here by letting people read our posts if they choose to do so. We are anonymous to protect ourselves but there is no doubt these are the real stories of people from all over the world who have suffered and some who continue to suffer from complex relational abuse.

No more secrets, silence or shame.     

[Papa Coco]

L2N,

To comment on your mention that child abusers get light sentences: It sickens me to see that pedophiles get a slap on the wrist and are put on a list of sex offenders, while people like Bernie Madoff, who steel a little money from the rich get life in prison. Shows where society's values really are.

[Kizzie]

Funny you should mention that Papa. I just watched a podcast called Betrayal in which the stepfather took photos of his eldest stepdaughter unbeknownst to her (i.e., from outside her window when she was changing, etc), around 100 I think it was.  Added to that he had over 1500 pictures of child pornography on his laptop. He only did 10 months in jail and then "got God" and shielded himself by being an upstanding member of the church. He has unsupervised visits with his biological daughter (not the one he photographed) and has a right to half of the family assets.  It was all quite sickening but it did reinforce for me that we need to keep speaking up and dragging abuse out into the light of day. 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/betrayal-fathers-secret-documents-dark-truth-shatters-family/story?id=112162568#:~:text=Ashley%20Lytton's%20husband%2C%20Jason%2C%20seemed,and%20earning%20her%20kids'%20trust.

[Kizzie]

This morning there is a CBC article about an employee of Munro's Books (a bookstore owned by Alice Munro) that makes me really happy. When the employee found out about Munro's denial of abuse of her daughter by her 2nd husband and that some store employees knew about it, she quit. And now the remaining employees at the store are trying to make up for being complicit by featuring books about CSA. https://www.cbc.ca/news/munros-books-employee-1.7282383

I also read an article about the Dutch child predator being heartily booed in his Olympic events. 

This is what needs to happen - public condemnation of the abuse and accountability.

[Phoebes]

I always wonder if my mother hears about these cases and sees herself at all. Is there any self-reflection there. I wonder if Alice actually called her daughter a liar and told a completely twisted story to people who were not close enough to know the truth. I'm glad these famous cases can shine a light in these predator enablers.

[Kizzie]

I'm glad these famous cases can shine a light in these predator enablers.

Me as well!

[Blueberry]

This morning there is a CBC article about an employee of Munro's Books (a bookstore owned by Alice Munro) that makes me really happy. When the employee found out about Munro's denial of abuse of her daughter by her 2nd husband and that some store employees knew about it, she quit.

    

I always wonder if my mother hears about these cases and sees herself at all. Is there any self-reflection there.

From my own experience and from what all I have read on here, I wouldn't count on it. I'm sorry. I wish it were different.

[Kizzie]

Phoebes - I always wonder if my mother hears about these cases and sees herself at all. Is there any self-reflection there.

BB- From my own experience and from what all I have read on here, I wouldn't count on it. I'm sorry. I wish it were different.

I have to agree BB, psychologically these parents seem to be able to blind themselves so it doesn't upset them or their world. Some kind of survival strategy kicking in I think, much like people who become N's. N's cope with very small and fragile egos from trauma they endured which means they must protect themselves in whatever way they can and at all costs. The psychological gymnastics help them to survive. And the capacity to self-reflect is either gone or has become distorted sadly.

[Phoebes]

Kizzie & BB. I totally agree. Although it's taken a while to fully sink in.

So, do they know they are lying? I mean, these defense mechanisms result in them painting false narratives and ruining the scapegoat's reputation for the sake of making themselves feel better. I feel like they know what they are doing because they act different around certain others. Do they do this and are perfectly fine with it? Not that it matters anymore.

After the more recent story that was told to my cousin, my takeaway was exactly that. She frantically flipped the script and changed the story to save face, HER face. Never mind how that affects ME.

[Little2Nothing]

I think these people sear their conscience so that over time they no longer are affected by what is going on. 

Deep inside they know it's wrong, but they have trained themselves to ignore and override what is happening. Enablers are as monstrous as the perpetrators. 

[Phoebes]

L2N, totally agree. What kind of mother does this stuff..

[Kizzie]

I think they know what they are doing but they don't care. I don't know if all N's are the product of trauma but a lot are from what I've read about them. They have to protect/enable themselves at all costs to protect that fragile, little ego and switching the narrative is one way of doing that. The big one is DARVO - Deny, Attack and Reverse Victim & Offender in which you come out looking like the bad guy.   

Many times, when a gaslighter is confronted about something they did or said that was hurtful, they utilize a tactic that turns the conversation around, and the victim ends up feeling to blame. This tactic of manipulation was studied by Jennifer Freyd, a psychological researcher who labeled it DARVO, an acronym for Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender. Gaslighters may use this tactic in romantic relationships, with friends, at work, or even in parenting. They shift the focus away from the issue at hand and begin to attack the victim. Here's how this can look:

Let's say you bring up a recent problem or hurtful comment to your partner, friend, or boss. You might have evidence or reasons that you provide for your suspicions. For example, "Why are you in this picture with this other woman at the party?" or "Marty told me he got a raise in his performance review when you told me no one was getting raises this year." That's when this tactic begins.

DENY: The accusation or suspicions are met with denial. The abuser will completely deny all evidence or accountability for their actions. This can sound like:

"Are you kidding? That's not what happened."
"What are you talking about?"

ATTACK: Here the abuser goes on the offensive, often by attacking the person's character, intelligence, motivation, mental health, or emotional stability. This can sound like:

"You're overreacting."
"You're imagining things."
"You're not thinking clearly."
"Calm down! You always get so dramatic about everything."

REVERSE VICTIM & OFFENDER: At this point, the victim's role is shifted, and they are made to feel like the abuser or offender. The abuser takes on a victim role and the true victim is made to feel like they have done something to the abuser. There is no accountability for the abuser's actions. The abuser can sometimes end up in tears. This can sound like:

"You know how hard it is for me to trust someone and then you do this to me. I can't believe this. I trusted you."
"I can't believe I have to sit here and listen to this. You know how much I love you and you treat me like this."
"I can't do anything right in your eyes. It's always something. I try so hard and you always find something wrong."

DARVO can leave a victim feeling confused and horrible about themselves. As DARVO typically happens in relationships with gaslighting already taking place, the victim's ability to rationalize or see through the abuser's behavior is difficult. The victim usually ends up either withdrawing their initial complaint or beginning to comfort the abuser. 
https://lifecounselinginstitute.com/darvo-a-form-of-gaslighting-in-relationships/#:~:text=Have%20you%20ever%20talked%20to,of%20gaslighting%20known%20as%20DARVO.

I'll bet this sounds familiar.