Forgiving being alienated

[Roy Alfred]

Hello. Please help me to find the right words.

How do I forgive the mother of my children for alienation? I know I hold deep hurt and anger because of what was said about me and how it has impacted our children and my relationship with them. I am not a bad person, there is nothing wrong with me, I have an illness that was said to be my personality. It was not, it was a traumatized little boy in adult shape. Language was expressed by her that I have a personality defect and she used this concept to rail against me, that there is something wrong with.

Sadly, I know my children see how much I hold against their mother, and it affects our relationship. I know it is time I move these feelings out for the sake and happiness of my children and any possibility of a future with them in my life.

It's been two decades and "my" inability to forgive is what holds us and me back.

I can't express how much I love them and to not do this work is a disservice to all. I am seeking some clear messaging that states my hurt and anger, without blame, so I may say it once and move on. However, I know I will be elevated and really don't know how the message will be received. Please understand this is about me, and not her.

If I am lucky enough to hear back from a few folks with some words that can help me articulate my pain without blame, I would be so grateful. Any advise, words, or encouragement with some thoughts to help me form a clear and sincere message.
 
Many thanks.....

[NarcKiddo]

Warning - this post does not directly answer your question and it might come across as slightly critical. That is not my intention at all, but please ignore this post if you are feeling fragile. You are new here and we don't know one another well. I don't want to be hurtful, only helpful, and I do genuinely wish you all the best as you struggle with your current conundrum. I am sorry she described you as having a personality defect. Please always try to remember that a trauma reaction is an ENTIRELY NORMAL response to a bad situation. You are not wrong or bad or defective for having been traumatised. The difficulty lies in re-educating ourselves to understand that things our different now. Our learned responses that once were necessary and served us well no longer fit the circumstances.

If I understand you correctly, you feel your wife has turned your children against you. You are angry at her for that and you feel your children do not want you to be angry at their mother.

I assume the children are now adults. I write this post from the point of view of an adult child of very dysfunctional parents. Please ignore anything that feels unhelpful or does not fit the details of your particular situation.

I do not have children. My own mother has spent pretty much all of my life denigrating my father (at times - at other times she appears to think he is a Demi-God) but her aim seems to have been always to make sure the children are fully on her side. I do not have any sort of relationship with my father although my parents continue to live together and the whole FOO remains in contact. We are cordial when we meet. That's it.

Of course the circumstances you describe are different. My father has never said anything bad about my mother to me. He does not hold any obvious resentment against her. But as an adult child of that very dysfunctional relationship, I have no interest in the ongoing relationship between my parents. My father is now entirely responsible for his relationship with me. Undoubtedly my mother did not help when I was a child, but he made no effort to change that and connect with me at any stage.

I don't think, deep down, I would be at all interested in my parents expressing forgiveness for one another or explaining to me why the actions of the other impacted on our relationship.

A genuine apology and discussion about how they failed me and how they would like to move forward on a better footing would feel practical and helpful to me. If one parent actually wanted to know me as a person, I don't think I would care if they continued to dislike the other parent. All I would ask is that they not express that dislike around me. I have not been faced with this, so of course I don't know how I would actually feel. But this is what I suppose.

I realise this post does not at all answer your question on how to articulate your pain without appearing to blame the mother of your children. I'm sorry about that, and sorry if my post is unhelpful. It's just that I think it might be worth you considering whether forgiving the mother of your children and forging a good relationship with your children are not actually dependent on one another. I would also invite you to consider that forgiveness may not be necessary in the process of releasing anger. There is no need, in my view, to forgive the unforgivable. What is helpful is trying not to allow anger and bitterness to cloud everything. It may be that expressing it to your children would allow you to move on. Maybe just expressing it, without necessarily to them, could help, though.

[Roy Alfred]

This post is full of gratitude. Thank you for your warnings, but I did not find your words critical, or troubling, just a different and honest perspective. For me every perspective has value to help me navigate my feelings on this matter. My daughters are adult children.

Issue one is despite my numerous attempts to convince T (daughter's mother) to attend counselling or mediation with me to resolve and give me space to share the impact her behavior has had on the three of us, she refuses. My last attempt was 5 years ago when we learned we would be grandparents. T's idea of personal growth is to seek out a psychic or tarot card reader for advice, instead of working on her behaviors that have a negative impact on us. Her behaviors are classic narcissism, meaning she has never apologized for any harms, accepted responsibility for her hurtful words and actions, or accepted accountability for any of our family struggles. It's not her, it's us.

For me, I did not come here to bash her either, that I have done in my mind for years, and to my determent and that of my children. That is the cycle I want to break and mend. And sadly, I have defended myself against her by speaking ill of her to my children, so I am part of the problem and for this I am deeply sorrowful and so wish I could take it back. She has taught my children it's ok to be mean spirited and say very hurtful things to me. In these energized and triggered moments, I respond in kind and contribute to the whole big mess. This vicious cycle is 20 years running.
 
This statement you made has my attention and I hope you can explain further; "It's just that I think it might be worth you considering whether forgiving the mother of your children and forging a good relationship with your children are not actually dependent on one another." It sounds to me that you feel I don't have to "forgive" the mother, but I can exorcise the demons in a different way. Is this correct?
 
Thanks again for replying and I do find your comments helpful, so I really appreciate you taking time to comment.

RA

[NarcKiddo]

This statement you made has my attention and I hope you can explain further; "It's just that I think it might be worth you considering whether forgiving the mother of your children and forging a good relationship with your children are not actually dependent on one another." It sounds to me that you feel I don't have to "forgive" the mother, but I can exorcise the demons in a different way. Is this correct?

Yes, that's right. I think there are threads on the forum on the subject of forgiveness and you might want to have a look around.

I don't think forgiveness is for the benefit of the forgiven. As such you can even forgive someone who is dead. I think it is for the benefit of the forgiver. BUT I also don't think it is always necessary. What I think is probably necessary for your own equilibrium is to find a way to accept that whatever she has done, whether wrong or not, is in the past. You might choose to forgive or you might not. You might work towards forgiving her just so you can get her out of your headspace. If she is a classic narcissist then she will, as you have observed, never own up to her part. I am not at all surprised she resists counselling. In fact if you were to tell her you forgive her she would probably erupt on the basis that she does not need forgiveness because she has done nothing wrong.

I don't forgive my mother for much of what she has done. I can understand why she might have done it. I can accept that she may even have done her best, even though her best is totally crap, unfair and damaging. But I have made some headway towards not fizzing with fear and rage inside every time I have to see her or speak to her or think about her. I totally understand how your cycle has continued. And when the mother has taught the children to mirror her behaviour it is so much harder to deal with. But they are adults now and must own their part in it, just as you must own yours. She no longer has anything to do with it. She might think she does, and if the children think she does then you will need open and honest discourse with them about what has gone wrong. It is completely reasonable for you to apologise to them if you have said bad things about their mother in the heat of the moment. If the things you have said are untrue or overly critical then it would be reasonable to apologise for that. But perhaps the person you actually need to forgive is you. For being a normal human being, reacting to provocation and mean treatment in an understandable way. And then resolve to do better. Unless you are seeking any sort of ongoing relationship with their mother (which would be necessary when co-parenting minors but may not be necessary now) then one option might be to see if you can simply remove their mother from your mind. I mean, yeah, she exists. But so does whatever mean schoolteacher you may have had and I am guessing you are not going round forgiving them or even giving them a second thought.

And finally, although I wish you all the very best in this, I must warn you that it is possible that your children may have picked up narc tendencies from their mother that are now deeply ingrained. You may never actually get very far with them, although I hope you do. They will certainly have built up their own protective mechanisms, and appeasing her sounds like it is top of their list. It will be hard for them to adjust. It took me until my 40s to even begin to understand there was something wrong with my family. Now your children have their own children their eyes may start to open, but it's not a given.

[Roy Alfred]

Thank you again for the reply. Everything you have said has crossed my mine more than once. My work on forgiveness is weak as I have struggled to forgive my father. He passed a few years ago and I had a hard cry at the funeral, not because I was sad, but because I was mad and hurt that I would never hear the words I needed him to say so I could move on. But he doesn't consume my mind, actually never did after I moved away.

Your are correct and I doubt I will ever get any acknowledgements or atonement from their mother. I will heed the advise I read and begin my own forgiveness path, as I completely agree - it is for the forgiver. I will be looking for these threads and get to work as my deep seeded anger that affects me in ways I probably not even aware.

The reason I came here is exactly for this type of process. To hear from others on a similar path, both for their experience and examples, but also so I don't feel so alone.

I know on a deep level my girls love me. Their perspectives have be tarnished for sure, but I also contributed to it, so I must work on that part and make my amends with them. Not just for my own healing, but for theirs. They deserve a better effort from me, they are so worth it.

Thanks again, all the best in your journey.

[Mathilde]

I struggle with similar feelings at the moment...but it's so raw at this moment, that I cannot respond well. I just want to say I understand how you feel, and want to send you support. If I'm in a better state of mind, I will write more.