[C.]

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[C.]

I just wanted to give a recommendation for a movie that I saw at the theatre this week.  Inside Out.  It's a kid film and animated.  For me it was entirely relevant to recovery.  It addresses emotions.  How emotions can help.  How they create problems.   There are some more important concepts, but I don't want to give away more, just say that I found it extremely helpful and great for the pre-teen IC in me 

[VeryFoggy]

C. I just asked my grandson if he had heard of the movie Inside Out, and he said yes and that he would like to see it.  I don't go to the movies for some reason.  Don't know why.  Dark place full of people are not comfortable to me. But maybe we can watch it when it comes out later. Also unfortunately, my son is very good at getting such things surreptitiously, which I am very against, but maybe I will make an exception and ask him to download it. But probably not.

Right now, I am not sure if I can go any further in this process.  My T has thrown me for a big, big loop.  She told me something today, not for the first time , it's maybe the third time, but much more seriously today. We spent a lot of time talking about it. And unfortunately it is starting to feel true. If it is true, that means that I will have to basically start recovery all over again.

But she believes I was sexually abused.  She is convicted. So because of this I have a lot more exploration to do with her that has simply not been covered. Things I did not think were relevant, things I know, but that may be relevant.  Things I explained to myself as being "normal", may NOT be "normal." Things I have never discussed with anybody ever. Things I thought and did when I was a 5 year old child.

And she suggested today it might have been when I was 2 or 3.  Instantly my mind provided 4 years old.  And as I pondered the rest of the day, I realize I do not remember being 4.  I remember before 4 and I remember after 4, but I do not remember 4. 

So I am very scared, and I am very sad. But it also makes a lot of things make sense.  My confrontation, my "getting it out of me" Some really awful promiscuity in my teens, my frequent suicidal feelings after sex with my first husband when I was only 16 years old. A lot of things. Are starting to make a whole lot of sense.

So I hate to lose this group as I have thought this was really good for me to do this.  But I have hit a brick wall tonight and find I cannot get philosophical at this point with this stark new awful twist to my therapy.

I will participate as best I can, but I do not think I personally will be making any new progress.

[Kizzie]

Oh dear VF, I am so sorry to hear this    I am wrapping you in a great big hug -  imagine resting your head on my shoulder and that I am there for you in spirit. 

There is so much happening right now that of course if you need to step away for a bit or entirely - do whatever it takes to deal with things.  We will be here, that's something you can count on.   

[VeryFoggy]

Thank you s-o-o-o much for the hugs, Kizzie, and thank you for being here so that I had someone to tell. I will try to participate, as in comment and feedback, I just won't be rushing to come up with a philosophical summary of WHY for myself at this time, at least I don't think I will be.

And this may not be the right place to even discuss this, but WHY would my therapist push this?  I know I take every word she says pretty much as a lifeline to cling to.  So they, therapists, have got to know the kind of a pedestal we put them on right?  So they know that we will attach great meaning and importance to anything they tell us right?

And the first time she simply asked. I said "I have no memory."  The second time she asked, and again I said "I have no memory." But then she said, "Maybe that's for the best", which right there stuck in my head playing and over.  But this time, it was "I think you were sexually abused.  You have too many symptoms that my other clients who have been sexually abused exhibit. You have all of them." 

So if I don't remember, why push it?  I don't understand. Why she did that.  Also I will not see her again for 9 more days, and I am left with this swirling, around in my brain, and it is very distressing to be told that, to not know why I was told that and to suspect it may very well be true. I don't know. It just doesn't make sense to me to push it, if I don't remember.

[Trees]

Dear VF,  I don't know one way or the other if your therapist should have kept pushing you on this subject of early childhood SA.  I have to admit that I am disturbed by her doing this.  But what's done is done.  I am sending you hugs as you deal with this:           

I discovered my own early childhood SA  through the "opening" of my subconscious, back in my 30s and 40s.  My own personal experience makes me think that things like this shouldn't be rushed.  But sometimes the surrounding environment and one's own brain can move things along more quickly than one would like.  In hindsight, many years later, I do consider these revelations to be progress in my life journey, but I sure did not think so at the time!

I hope you will stay in touch here, regardless of how coherent you feel about this unsought-for  "awakening", or any other subject for that matter.   

[VeryFoggy]

Thanks Trees!  I think maybe my therapist may be trying to rip the veil, and pull the last vestige of a shadow of a doubt from my mind.  Maybe as proof of the rightness of my gut feelings, and that my gut is right, and that I MUST learn to trust my gut, and not the lies I have been peddled my whole life.  But I am guessing.

If you would not mind Trees would you explain why you consider revelations of SA to be progress in your journey? Maybe that would help me understand why it would be good to know.  I already know so much that is not good right now, that it is hard to understand how or why that last betrayal, really the ultimate betrayal of your own child would be good for me to know.

Off hand I am thinking that the blame I have assumed and carried the burden of,  in all of my own sexual relationships would be somewhat exonerated. To have been abused that way as a child would have warped me sexually for the rest of my life.  And I am warped in many ways. I'm not a pervert, but there are problems with intimacy for sure. Control, choosing Mr. Unavailables, a lot of stuff. Ties in. Neatly.

So if you feel comfortable sharing Trees, I think it would help me understand why this could be good, and why it was progress for you.

[Trees]

"If you would not mind Trees would you explain why you consider revelations of SA to be progress in your journey?"

Well, VF, when I use the word "progress" (in hindsight), I mean it in the sense of a grueling journey, somehow survived, that helped me to understand better who I was and, most importantly, why why why.    It helped me understand that the parents I had been brainwashed to somewhat respect were in fact capable of depravity against a tiny child and that I could maybe stop making excuses for them. 

"Off hand I am thinking that the blame I have assumed and carried the burden of,  in all of my own sexual relationships would be somewhat exonerated."
Yes, the sex thing!  I could begin to feel compassion for how I had ended up "warped" sexually.  The shame of that lightened for me.

And other things I was ashamed and embarrassed about myself began to make sense.   I began to glimpse the extent of what I had survived, and to understand and respect the contortions my developing brain had gone through.

I finally understood my mother's dislike of me, her inability to ever love me.  She saw the molested toddler as "the other woman".  So she not only failed to rescue me, she blamed me for alienating the "affections" of her husband (my father).   Comprehending so much ugliness was very painful but finally I understood that it was not I who was loathsome!  I finally really got it!  I had never understood before how much shame my mother had heaped upon me from my earliest years, that I had carried my entire life!

I am worried, VF, that I am saying too much.  I am having trouble summarizing and eliminating triggering detail.

For me, the "progress" part was that I began to make sense to myself.  My problems, my failures, my shame, my inability to become the person I wanted to be, it all began to make sense.   It was a bitter kind of knowledge, of course!   And it hasn't changed all my behaviors and perceptions.   But there is a tiny place in me that no longer blames me for being me, and that is a tiny little blessing.

And, yes, what you said about trusting your gut.  I learned to believe the things "told" to me by the inaccessible part of my brain.  These revelations came in steps, not all at once, for me.

If this might be occurring for you, I can only encourage you to take very good care of yourself, to seek comfort here on OOTS.  I think my own process would have been less difficult if I had not been so isolated way back then in the pre-internet era.

[Kizzie]

I'm not sure what to say about your T either VF. Perhaps the best thing to do is be clear and direct with how her pushing makes you feel and see what she comes back with. Then you can choose to go ahead or tell her you don't want to pursue it at all or that you want to give yourself some time to try and remember on your own - whatever works for you.

You can trust yourself now 

[C.]

I am so sorry VF.  No words really.  Just empathy for your pain (I felt sad and tearful for your experience) and 

Everything written so far has been compassionate and meaningful for me and I trust for you as well.

I have a couple of thoughts about your T.  First, there are other ways she could have addressed the topic like asking "why do you think you don't remember your 4th year?"  then "can I share another perspective w/you" followed by "I am here for you, this is difficult, etc." and generalities about SA.  What you say about needing to forget that year is so true, a necessary survival skill.

Next, from what you've described of your T and how committed she is to helping you I'm certain she would be ok with hearing from you now, not in 9 days, if that is what you want.  This is one of those situations where phone contact or a visit between appointments makes sense I think.  So, if that's what you want, I hope that you will reach out to her sooner.  And if you feel ready sharing about your concern over being pressured, too much too soon, and the gravity of the pain for you.

And I remember an earlier post about your roommate where you mentioned that you were reading about SA and wondering if that was part of your experience.

Finally, I too completely respect and understand whatever turn your recovery takes at this time.  I have been in more of a responding mode w/some of the questions b/c sometimes it's just too much for me to deal w/at the moment individually.  Discussion gets me closer to more of the individual work I need to do w/my thoughts, memories, feelings, and writing.  I hope it's ok to say that you've been an inspiration to me w/how dedicated you take your recovery in terms of thinking and responding to these questions on your own and before discussion.

On a lighter note, it's so interesting how we all have different triggers.  For me at the moment movie theatres are one of the few social activities that energizes me.  Seeing other single people in the theatre, but not too well, is great.  And the shared camaraderie of a good movie feels uplifting.  One of those relying on the kindness of strangers times for me...

Anyway, lots and lots of 

[VeryFoggy]

Trees - Thank you so much for the response and for sharing so much. I really appreciate you doing that and it helped a lot.  You definitely dotted all the i's and crossed all of the t's for me, and hit all the nails on the head.  You confirm my suspicions of WHY.  I think my T sees me continuing to falter, to occasionally go over to what I call the dark side, and to start defending my abusers occasionally even now after all I know, I still slip up.  So it is probably what I suspect, that she wants to rip the veil as I called it, and expose it in all of its horror and ugliness.

I did a little research, and found out I was doing some things that were not normal for my age. I will discuss these with her and see what she says. And now, after a couple of days to let it sink in, even though I don't remember, it's quite, quite possible there was something, maybe even only one time.  And I have a pretty good idea of what happened, if it happened, due to some other things I do know and remember.  Certain things that terrified me later.

I find myself at this time strangely pragmatic about it. I am probably numb. If it happened.  I don't have a lot of feelings about it, just deep sadness and compassion for my little self, and also for my older self that struggled so much with this issue all of my life. I've always "known" there was something "off" about me that way, so it makes total sense.

Thank you Kizzie as always for your heartwarming words and staunch support of me.  I do trust my T. Implicitly. So I am going to continue to do so at this time. I was just upset, and needed to vent, and you all really are the only ones I have to talk to about such things. Thank you for that privilege.

C. I did not remember that I did not remember being 4 until later, after I got home from the session. So that can't be discussed until next time.  Also she is having her gallbladder removed today! So that is the reason for the long gap in time between visits.  This woman has treated me when she has been on her deathbed sick at our session time before last, and she has come to my home and treated me for free several times, so I am, I do have great faith in her and what she is doing. So I will continue to trust her until it feels plain wrong.  Unfortunately it does not feel plain wrong. It feels plain right.

I was upset at first that she told me that?  But like I said after thinking it over a couple of days, it sure does make sense. I have feelings that you may or may not relate to? But to me it will feel like a Rubik's cube clicks into place, or I put the last piece of a puzzle together, or I fit a key in the lock and all of the tumblers turn.  And things become sharp and clear and I "understand" something I have never understood. And unfortunately this is one of those moments that even if I don't remember?  It sure does make a lot of sense.

Thank you for your kind words and for calling me dedicated and an inspiration.  A lot of times I feel silly about stuff I post and most of it is TOO long.  But it is wonderful to have a place to share it where I will not be ridiculed, or argued with about what I really felt, or thought or should have done. I mentioned in another post once, that it feels like I throw myself out there into space, like body surfing at a concert,  hoping someone will catch me and you all always do.  So thank you all for that. And for your kind words and for caring.  It means so much to me! 

[Kizzie]

 

                 Big 

[C.]

That makes a lot of sense about your T.  And cheers to your perseverance and pragmatism and ability to push through difficulties in a way that works for you.  Yep 

[VeryFoggy]

So I took my lists of things that made me suspect I was sexually abused to my therapist yesterday, and we only made it a quarter of the way through my lists.  Hopefully we will finish on Monday.  We are seeing each other again on Monday. 

But she was crying, in tears with the things I was telling her, and she told me she has treated many children who have been sexually abused, and she said every word I said sounded just like the stories they would tell her.  She also said she would go to court today and swear on a stack of bibles that my father sexually abused me.

So I am treating myself like a person who has been very ill, just being really gentle and very careful with myself.

I still don't and may never remember the actual acts?  But so many things now make sense. The barrier between me and my mother.  Why I was always petrified for my mother to find out certain things about me. I was trying to protect her.  I did not want her to know I had cheated on her with her husband. I was always told by my father that I was responsible.  That it was not his fault he felt that way. That it was my fault. I can't remember the acts, but he has always told me I was responsible for his feelings of lust.

So I am trying to be very gingerly careful, extra careful with me. It's hard to know these things, and my T said she did not want me to try to remember the actual acts? But I said to her, don't you see?  I have to know if he did this to me? I have to know because all of this time I have blamed myself?  And if I am not responsible? Then this is freeing for me, no matter how bad and how awful it is to know?  I need to know so I can feel free and clean and good and whole about me again.

I think she understands. And again I don't need to remember the acts.  Her tears and sorrow were enough for me to know, yes, it really did happen. I have so much circumstantial evidence it is not even funny. And now I can be sure. I am not crazy.  I am not bad. He was.  He is. And he has spent a lifetime building a fortress to protect himself in case I ever remembered. He is a man of God. Or so he says. He is a minister. A preacher.  A missionary.

For the last year and a half I have been waiting (futilely) for him to apologize for his acts of cruelty towards me in the present. But now?  Knowing this?  The only act he could do is what is the prescribed antidote in the church that he claims to hold so dear.  And that is to "come forward" as they call it and to confess to the whole church what he has done and to beg forgiveness publicly. Dream on.  Dream on.

[C.]

Wow.  You have had a very intense past few weeks from what I've seen.  I'm happy to hear that you're taking care of yourself.  I really like how you describe it as "gentle."

I don't know if you like media to process some of these things.  I've seen a couple of tv series and/or movies that address what you've touched on in a very compassionate way.

You are in my thoughts and prayers tonight.  Lots of hugs