I never feel a desire to reach out and be with people

[arpy1]

thanks for that, Kizzie. it helps that someone else thinks it's ok for me to be doing this!

i guess i still feel a lot of guilt about being 'self-' rather than 'other-referencing' as you put it. had my daughter on the phone today and in the course of the conversation she tells me i ought to think about doing some volunteering or something, to get me out of the house.  i just couldn't say to her that the very idea of it is horrifying to me. so i just said 'oh yes, that might be a good idea' or something. 

it's hard when people just don't understand. it makes me feel so selfish and, as one elder in the cult called me once when i was struggling: self-obsessed. that was such a pejorative term; it was deeply embedded in us that any sort of introspection or work on one's self is wrong/sinful/sky-definitely-gonna-fall ... it is a constant struggle to not believe it any more; to give myself permission to concentrate on my own healing.

re your friend and the 12 hours sleep (how lovely!), that doesn't surprise me at all.  it is very energy demanding to share on a deep level like that even when it's being beneficial.  and good for you not to get an EF out of it, you should be proud, seriously, shows you're healing   

[tired]

 I was taught that 1. thinking too much was a waste of time and therefore wrong because you should be doing something like chores or praying and 2. it's arrogant to think you might know yourself. 

[woodsgnome]

All of the social messaging in society is geared to being "normal". Normal is defined as running around like crazy, endlessly buying stuff (all-marketing-all-the-time), cheering your commercialized sports team, and participating in the marketplace at all costs. Values are no longer life traits, they're the latest low price on what you just have to have.

The only thinking desired is whatever it takes to guarantee one's role as a consumer. The word citizen isn't even heard much anymore, it's totally consumer oriented..."and here is the news; consumers today were said to...".

As tired said: "it's arrogant to think you might know yourself." Social consensus feeds on insecurity and it begins with the message to be "normal" and that means be social at all costs.

Because I live in the woods, people assume I must be anti-social...yeah, right; and next weekend I'm running a dinner theatre programme involving dozens of people. It's perfectly fine to be as social, or not, as you choose to be--in many of our situations, we need to factor in our cptsd to find our tolerable comfort niche (I'll be drained from social anxiety after the event but the artistic need to do it overrides at this point).

Unless you know yourself, who determines your needs--you or the media-saturated culture with its seal of approval? 

[Dutch Uncle]

Well put, woodsgnome. 

I have this postal card hanging on my (toilet)wall that says:

"Thinking makes us tired.
So we'd rather (be) judge(mental)*."    *)It's not easy to find the 'right' translation.

I see your post reflected in that.


Edited to add:
I notice I get a bit tense that the message might not come across, since these post-cards all have an ironic (?) twist build in them.

So, as safety catch for myself, I'll post a few more by this team of writers:
"My to-do list tends to fade in the sun."
and
"Today I biked really, really fast
past the gym."
and
"Puberty: when your parents start to act out really obnoxious behavior."

[Kizzie]

Too funny Dutch!

Woodsgnome - I hadn't really thought about how much marketing contributes to being other referenced and in such a superficial way, but when I read your post a light when on.  I've become increasingly irritated by advertising to the point where I only watch the news and shows on PVR so I can avoid the commercials.  I had thought it was just a function of aging, but perhaps it is also because as we progress in recovery and we find so much of substance within ourselves (as Pete Walker suggests, the "silver lining" of CPTSD), it makes superficiality harder to bear.  Anyway, really interesting thought to ponder. 

Arpy, WG's posts made me see my post could use a little clarification. For the longest while I thought I was just introverted, but when I was diagnosed with CPTSD, I was also diagnosed with Social Anxiety Disorder. So there's a part of me that doesn't want to be around people all that much by choice (I am actually introverted), but there is another part that wants to be more connected with some people, but is really afraid to and that's due to social anxiety (not a choice per se because it's driven by fear and anxiety).

It's the latter part that's more okay with people these days, whereas the introverted side will never want a big circle of friends or to be overly social.  So when I say I agree that the rest will follow, it's probably more accurate to say as the SA diminishes, I am becoming more comfortable with people, but will never be the life of the party or want that level of socializing. 

Now there's a head spinner for you lol

[annbelievesinwhales]

Wow! I posted a while ago and am so happy to see that pple actually can relate to this! We aren't alone even though it feels that way. Stupid trauma

[Indigochild]

I agree Annebelievesinwales
Stupid trauma.
Not stupid that we feel this way but frustrating. Makes me angry.

Trigger Warning....


I sometimes wish that i could inflict this stuff on the people who actually did it to us.
I guess they had their round of it though which is why they did it to us.

[woodsgnome]

Indigo wrote:

"I guess they had their round of it though which is why they did it to us."

Abusers may indeed have had many reasons that can explain 'why' they were abusive, but I don't feel an obligation to understand their still senseless actions. I've tried, and 1)it drives me nuts and 2)it's like giving them power over my mind...still.

As to thoughts of anger and revenge, totally okay and far more understandable than their abuse ever was. Thoughts come and go, actions leave scars.

[Dutch Uncle]

If a drunk driver hits me and I'm in the hospital for weeks, or worse, am I going to think: "Nah, the guy/gal probably had a rough day, and needed a drink. No sweat."?

I don't think so. Nor will the court.

Trigger Warning....


I sometimes wish that i could inflict this stuff on the people who actually did it to us.

I think this regularly.
For me, I have found a healthier way to deal with it. I get angry about the fact they did this to me.
And I know I will not do what they have done. Nor have I done it. And certainly not so receptively as they did, even when I resisted or complained about it.
I did my stupid and harmful things in life. Of course. But I apologized, either in person or in private, and made sure I didn't do it again.

It's not that they didn't have a clue.

[tiggerd2]

Boatsetsailrose-----
Boy - you seem to write my thoughts-scares me to no end.
When I'm with a patient, My focus is on that person. I easily stand up for and protect that person against anyone. I don't care if they yell, scream, curse-- whatever. I protect them. The only time I have 'fought' with a staff member was because of the care the staff person wanted to give. I can look back and say - OMG- who was she and where did she come from.    After, I froze and shut down.

Years ago I received a written warning because a doctor went off yelling at me while accusing me of giving her information late. I didn't even do it. I wasn't in the area at the time. My supervisor wrote me up for it knowing the doctor's accusation was unfounded. I couldn't do anything except cry and plead for him to know I would never do that.  -- Yes, the supervisor is/was/always will be toxic. I no longer work there.

There are some incredibly good nurses. There are nurses who are mean, hateful, self centered, back biting and would do anything to sabotage another nurse (except their BFF).

I can fight for others. I can't/don't stand up for myself.
I am always shy except when I'm at work in my "nurse role". I can talk to staff. I am really able to speak with patient's and their family members.
Yes I am co-dependent.   

I work to be authentic. It is harder right now because I had shoulder surgery a month ago but have been out of work since the end of July. I know it will be better when I can go to work.

[Rainydaze]

I always thought I was really wrong for not being good around people so it's a massive comfort to read that others find it difficult too (not that I want you all to struggle, but you know what I mean!)

I worked with a massive extrovert until recently who manages to be friends with everyone and actually wantsto be friends with everyone. Even people she seemingly doesn't have anything in common with she will invite to socialise. I really envy her because I imagine her life is easier as a result. I didn't realise until I left that workplace though how insecure she probably actually is. Every conversation did somehow gravitate towards her ultimately, she constantly played the joker and she absolutely relished it. If anything did go wrong in her life or someone said the wrong thing she would have a massive downer and go really quiet, so although she seemed infallible there was far more to it. I think as an extrovert she reaches out to people all the time to boost her emotional energy. As an introvert I tend to push people away because I find the social stimulus overwhelming. Since leaving that job I have gone from seeing her every day to exchanging a text message now and then. I do think she is bothering with me less because I'm not the happy, bubbly person who wants to talk all the time. I just can't pretend to be like that when the majority of the time I feel emotionally terrible, it's exhausting. Plus I can't open up to people who won't understand, too much chance of getting the, "but he's your father, he must love you deep down!" line.

I relate to what Kizzie has said about the conflict between not wanting to be around people but also wanting to connect with them. When I feel better emotionally I would like to work on my social skills again but I want to be liked for who I am and to be friendly with like-minded people rather than suppressing my true character just to fit in.

[Indigochild]

Yeah BluesCruse!!
I want to be liked for who I am and to be friendly with like-minded people rather than suppressing my true character just to fit in.
Me too!
I have wanted this for a while now upon realising that I dont want connection with others unless it is possible to have nice connection with authentic individuals who accept you.

[woodsgnome]

Same old—when it feels good enough to feel bad.

Interesting how close the reachout can seem, but how distant too. I'm speaking of an old trait of mine which was in full force recently.

It was my big annual "social" occasion—a dinner-theatre I started managing several years back. It's a one-night stand and involves dozens of people ranging from actors to wait people to chefs to you name it. My expertise lies in the acting side but touches all bases.

I love it—and hate it. The love is reacquainting myself with my artistic/creative side via the actors/musicians I recruit (all from afar, alas—the local area is pretty scant talent-wise). The hate is based in the fear of people; the judgements, critiques, all those familiar cptsd traits.

People loved the evening, as usual. But as everyone departed, it was same old too. Lots of surface friends, some old/some prospective, but I know it'll be too much for me to expect anything more. As in a friendship that goes beyond those "hi, great time" surfaces. So after a lovely morning-after breakfast with the performers, I wearily packed up and headed back to lonely.

Why don't I follow up? Distance is a factor, for sure. But the backoff seems more related to my same/old feelings of unworthiness. I'm good at drawing them, but fail to leap past the required niceties of the short term. I sabotage myself with a rigourous inner critic that devalues the esteem others say they have for me. I leave it at that and have 1,001 reasons to not consider reaching out. Want to/don't.

Same old. 'Spose it's like returning to prison after work-release.

[arpy1]

    it is hard, wsg. much support

[Kizzie]

  woodsgnome