Forgiveness

[KayFly]

I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, which has been very hard on my adult life.  I have a friend who's girlfriend suffered some of the same types of abuse, and he said to me, "I hope you can find forgiveness." and I actually retaliated to him, saying what happened to me was unforgivable. But when I talked to my therapist about it, she said that some people just find a way of forgiveness for spiritual reasons.

Recently, I have had a break from school and work and have been taking time to work on my healing and rest.  This involves a lot of crying, writing, releasing... and the other day, I found myself crying so hard on the floor and in my mind I said over and over, "I forgive you."  It was like, an unforced, natural, understanding, agreement with my soul to forgive something that was so wrong, but it was like I couldn't bear holding on to the grudge any longer. I had to forgive.

Has anyone else come to terms with forgiveness toward people who have harmed you? If so, how has it helped your life?

I really like this video by Prince Ea that helped validate my time of forgiveness.  For anyone who does not forgive their abusers, you have every right to not forgive anything they have ever done to you, and you may not want to watch this video, but I wanted to share it..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWKNZbm8HQA

[woodsgnome]

I've stumbled over the idea of forgiveness for years. My biggest hurdle was trying to understand the abusers...yes, there's this, that, the other thing/circumstance that may have determined their actions, but I really can't focus on their stuff and I sure as * don't understand them. As one therapist kept prodding me, "How do you feel, now?" Which was, of course, horrible. Took loads of painful agony for me to realize "they" weren't a direct threat anymore. Unfortunately, the residue of what they did left deep scars and may never cease to have ugly effects. Contemplating forgiveness was just not something I wanted to consider. Until it just kind of floated away, which I'll try to explain.

A couple years ago, inspired by a book I was reading ("The Deepest Acceptance" by Jeff Foster) I kind of swapped out the word "forgiveness" for that of "acceptance". Forgiveness as an action or expression still seems elusive, if not impossible, to me. Acceptance, however, had a better ring; NOT in thinking any of what happened was suddenly alright--acceptance does not equate with approval or apathy. Sadly, the abuse still has crushing effects on my life. The thoughts pore in every day, and I sure don't ask for them to be there. Nor can I shoo them away. I can say I don't want them and they still show up. I can't not accept them. But there's really nothing to forgive, either. Those whose actions fed the thoughts are gone and can't repeat what they did.

For years, I dreaded tackling any form of forgiveness. But acknowledging acceptance creates a space that I can grow into. The bad thoughts still flow in, and I accept that; can't fight 'em off. But they can be followed with better thoughts, like a lovely breeze freshening my soul on its new journey. I don't condone anything that happened, but what can I truly do but accept that it did? If that includes having to say the word forgive, I'm not sure it's even necessary--it's already in the acceptance.

So that's been my approach, not worrying about forgiveness so much as considering acceptance instead. I know it's just words but they helped me find  hope.

Thank you for posting this thread; it's one of the biggest hurdles for many of us, I'm sure. Thanks also for the video link.

[KayFly]

Thank you for responding woodsgnome. I enjoy hearing your insights, and where you are at.

For so long I always said, that the things/people that caused my wounds were unforgivable. It made me so mad if anyone said anything along the lines of "its your family, people do good and people do bad.." or like "i hope you can forgive them" or "i'm sure they didn't know what they were doing"...even from people coming from the most loving place, made me so angry. 

I finally can see now, that those people were coming from a good place, where as before I interpreted it as, "if you are saying i should forgive this, you are on their side, or you are evil".  It makes me sad that I couldn't see they meant well. It just made me so mad.  But in truth, they just didn't know how to approach the issue. And that is okay with me now. But it most certainly was not then.

Why the * should I forgive someone who intentionally did something to me that hurt me so deeply, that I have a hard time telling the difference between good and evil people? Why should I forgive someone who hurt me this bad?

I don't have to. I like your approach in swapping words, to take care of yourself. I totally know that feeling of just hating that word too, or just certain words...  But you made it into acceptance, because you know yourself.  I hope its not triggering you in any way just for me to say it.  I am happy you do what is best for you.  That is the only thing I would encourage.

I'm not a saint. I didn't come to clear terms of forgiveness. I hated the idea of it. But, when I became curious about why my father sexually abused me, or why my mother also did, I went to my therapist and asked her. Why do people do that? And she explained to me that some people who do things like that are like sociopathic and don't have any understanding of what harm they are doing, and some just have like sick, insecure desires.  What resonated with my father is the latter, and I will probably never see my parents again in my life, which I am now grieving, but when the idea of forgiveness came out, it was just a natural response to my grieving.

I cry a lot lately. I cry "I want to go home" or "I want my daddy" because I am young, recently estranged, and even though those people weren't safe for me, they were still all I knew.  I'm grieving the loss of my family, and not yet the loss of my childhood.  I don't know why my path brought me to cry this out, but for some reason "I forgive you." Is what I cried with my understanding of why they might have done it, and maybe my desperation to not feel so much sadness.

Its all hard to swallow right now.  I hope no one feels like I am saying its necessary to forgive a perpetrator. You have every right to never forgive them or never trust another human being again, like Walker says.  And in a lot of cases, its most appropriate to never talk to or see these people again, who have hurt you.  And to stay away from anyone who doesn't support your recovery.

This just came up naturally for me, and I think it was just a release of holding on to too much. Like my body, or my soul telling me I can't hold on to it.  And yes, they were just words.  But the process is really accepting, and letting go. Its so effin hard.

Thanks for talking with me about it.  This is a really tough issue.  Keep taking care of you. You are doing a really good job.

[woodsgnome]

It's just, as you say, "...so effin hard." That's an understatement, but it's also empowering to know that we can even do that, that we can "thrive" as we step out on our own trail of peace.

               

[KayFly]

Absolutely. As hard as it can be, it is a beautiful thing. 

[Kizzie]

Kayfly, thanks for the link, I really enjoyed it.  So true when he suggests that "hurt people hurt people" and once you realize that, acceptance seems to settle in which does make space I agree WoodsGnome, room in our souls.  I would not have even considered this two or three years ago and yet it has happened without my even looking for it. 

There is much to grieve Kayfly and it is incredibly hard, harder than almost anything to let go of the wish that our parents would be who we deserve them to be.  Eventually the tears slow and you do come out the other side.  Until then     

[Cuthberta]

I think we plant a seed of forgiveness when we attempt to find therapy, or at least awareness of who we are, and what happened to us. But we can't force that seed to grow; it has to happen in its own time.

[VeryFoggy]

Such an interesting discussion and one I have agonized over too, the last few years. I tried forgiveness thinking my father would leave me alone.  Hindsight which is 20/20 showed me that my forgiveness was premature.  I had only been no contact for 8 months when I forgave.  I had not even started therapy.  I just wanted to live and let live so I wrote a letter to my father saying basically that I trusted God would guide him and that I needed him to leave me alone and let God guide me too. He took that as an invitation to continue trying to force his Narcissistic mindset onto me.

Here is how I reconcile forgiveness today.  It is impossible to forgive someone who has not asked you to forgive them.  God Himself does not forgive unless you ask first. You cannot give someone something they do not want and have not asked for. This is the whole basic premise of most religions. You recognize your faults and limitations and you ask for His (whoever you believe in) forgiveness for your shortcomings and you gain strength and comfort in knowing He has heard your plea and accepts your commitment to 1) No longer do what you are sorry for 2) He helps you stop doing what you are sorry for 3) Forgives you for all of your past wrongs.

You cannot give forgiveness to someone else unless they ask for it. I gain comfort and strength and sanity in knowing I cannot do more than God Himself. If He won't do it unless I ask for it, what makes me think I can do it? If I do, I am basically saying I am even better than God. Which I know I am not.

There is a website luke173ministries.org that pounded this into my thick head until I got it.  That mainly it was guilt, my guilt about abandoning my family that made me want to try to forgive.  But a year and a half later, having gained ever more perspective, I can clearly see nobody wants my forgiveness. They are still right, I am still wrong, and until I return and become the scapegoat for all to dump their sins upon, there will be no reconciliation and my forgiveness is trash.

So I accept as Woodsgnome said,  I accept. They don't want me as is, they want me back as a place to park and blame their sins. So I don't forgive.  I will never forgive until they ask for it and each one has been told exactly that. Until you ask for me to forgive you?  I don't. But I do accept you don't want me, and so I am removing myself from your life.

I know who I am. I know what I have done. And what I have NOT done. And I know I did not deserve what was done to me.

So I don't forgive as nobody has asked me to. I accept.  I accept life as it is and life as it is means I am an orphan with no brothers and no sister. Because I would rather be alone with God and my children and my doggies than keep trying with these people who just treat me like dirt. I accept.  They think I am dirt.  And I know I am far better than dirt. And I don't forgive, I accept.

[KayFly]

Tonight was one of the harder nights in my life. I appreciate your insight VeryFoggie, Woodsgnome, Kizzie, Cuthberta.

I can't force this. I can hardly wrap my head around forgiveness.  The people who wronged me haven't even come forth about their wrongdoings, let alone practice anything less harmful than what they were doing before.

My grieving is raw, harsh.  I think my poor spirit would say anything to make this pain go away, even if it was momentarily "I forgive you. I forgive you"  Almost like I was being whipped with that belt by my father while I said it.

I will accept that my family took every ounce of my self worth, and I will accept, that I cannot receive validation from them. I accept that my healing has hardly begun and I accept that I am unaware of how much damage it has caused.

I will accept that I might not know what the * I am talking about when I say I completely "forgive" what has happened to me. I accept where i am at. I love myself for trying so hard to be peaceful in the midst of this pain. I accept help in this time. And I accept a motha fuckin back rub from my man tonight.

Thank you all for your words.  I needed to hear them. A lot.

[Cuthberta]

Tonight was one of the harder nights in my life. I appreciate your insight VeryFoggie, Woodsgnome, Kizzie, Cuthberta.

I can't force this. I can hardly wrap my head around forgiveness.  The people who wronged me haven't even come forth about their wrongdoings, let alone practice anything less harmful than what they were doing before.

My grieving is raw, harsh.  I think my poor spirit would say anything to make this pain go away, even if it was momentarily "I forgive you. I forgive you"  Almost like I was being whipped with that belt by my father while I said it.

I will accept that my family took every ounce of my self worth, and I will accept, that I cannot receive validation from them. I accept that my healing has hardly begun and I accept that I am unaware of how much damage it has caused.

I will accept that I might not know what the f*** I am talking about when I say I completely "forgive" what has happened to me. I accept where i am at. I love myself for trying so hard to be peaceful in the midst of this pain. I accept help in this time. And I accept a motha fuckin back rub from my man tonight.

Thank you all for your words.  I needed to hear them. A lot.

I am sorry for your pain. 

You are being so strong and so honest; not everyone can manage that. Can we really blame them, when we know the cost of that honesty? Would we want to put them through it? I don't know the answer to that one.

But before I attempt to forgive other people for being who they are, I think I would need to learn to forgive myself first; for being too small, too weak, too unaware. For being there.

The Others can manage fine without me; I am the one who struggles. If I had not been there, none of it would have happened. Therefore, the fault is mine. Where is the forgiveness for that?

Find the answer to that one, and we have the answer to every question, I suspect.

[Kizzie]

Kayfly, I don't think acceptance or forgiveness or whatever we choose to call it can be forced, there is just too much wrong that simply can't be righted. Allowing ourselves to anger and grieve about that, to howl at the sky in pain seems to be what we need to do if Pete Walker is anything to go by.  As I mentioned in an earlier post, for me that subsided and made room for other things, better things.

FWIW, I don't think you are at the beginning of healing, you sound like you are well into it.  For many of us, getting to that raw pain can take a long time because we are so adept at distancing ourselves from it, dissociating, etc.   You're not doing that so hold onto that thought, you are letting all that trauma begin to surface and that's a huge step forward (and boy do you deserve a back rub  )

[KayFly]

Thank you guys. I've been having quite a meltdown. Last night I had some scary paranoid experiences and dissociation that scared me. I guess I let my anxiety get ahead of me. 45 minutes about, where I couldn't stop crying/screaming... I'm like surprised I didn't end up at the hospital. My boyfriend rubbing my back to calm me, a shower and anxiety meds got me to calm.

I'm still really sad today, but really appreciate your guy's input as I don't feel so grounded, rightfully so. And thank you for recognizing my hard work Kizzie. I think I may not have been in my right mind lately...but the reason I am here facing this pain is because I've been working my * off.

I'll write about my experience in a separate thread when I feel more rested as I'm still exhausted from what happened last night. Thank you again for just  being there guys.

[Cuthberta]

Thank you guys. I've been having quite a meltdown. Last night I had some scary paranoid experiences and dissociation that scared me. I guess I let my anxiety get ahead of me. 45 minutes about, where I couldn't stop crying/screaming... I'm like surprised I didn't end up at the hospital. My boyfriend rubbing my back to calm me, a shower and anxiety meds got me to calm.

I'm still really sad today, but really appreciate your guy's input as I don't feel so grounded, rightfully so. And thank you for recognizing my hard work Kizzie. I think I may not have been in my right mind lately...but the reason I am here facing this pain is because I've been working my a** off.

I'll write about my experience in a separate thread when I feel more rested as I'm still exhausted from what happened last night. Thank you again for just  being there guys.

Well done for getting through all of that. What a star! 

[KayFly]

Thank you Cuthberta, Kizzie, VeryFoggie, and Woodsgnome,

I feel like coming to more real terms with this has helped me develop a sense of like "No one treats me like that." Like I have had enough. I can't tolerate being mistreated anymore, and I think some of the things that happened to me, I am just so distanced from them, that I don't know what to believe. I suppose i am still in a bit of shock.

I really appreciate the grounding perspectives you have all given and your support...

And Kizzie, I really appreciate that you acknowledge that I am well into my healing because it feels like my hard work is starting to pay off a bit.

big  to everyone