Breathing Problems

[KayFly]

Hey There,

Thank you for opening this thread.  I have been having trouble taking a deep breath for almost a month now, which sometimes leads to hyperventilating.  I started paying attention to my breathing pattern and noticed that I often stop breathing (I think in Freeze times, which happen often for me).  So I have been working on deep breathing exercises, breathing consistently, and because I am on psychiatric medication, and am very athletic, I had a chat with my doctor about it. I have no history of asthma also...in case you were curious...

I was taking the beta blocker Propranolol, which slows your heart rate, and my doc believed that the Propranolol was slowing my heart rate while I was working out.  So I went off of Propranolol entirely, along with Prazasin, which I was using for sleep, but it's an alpha-blocker, which enhanced the beta-blocker, and also it's another blood pressure medication, so I thought, if I can, I will eliminate both. And so I did. And I got an inhaler for emergencies. I got back to working out again after some rest, but the breathing problem didn't go away.

I was also in the doc's office a few days before this because I went on a backpacking trip and injured my hip pretty bad, and my knees and back hurt pretty bad at the time.  He gave me a referral to a physical therapist who I saw last week, and she said that the back injury's inflammation could be pressing up against my lungs making it hard to breathe, but now I have no pain in my back, and I'm still having trouble breathing.

I quit smoking cigarettes over a month ago, and I understand that quitting smoking can cause wheezing and coughing, but I have quit for long periods of time and never experienced this...

So then there is my anxiety.  I noticed last night when I went to perform a song on guitar to my boyfriend, I was having trouble breathing really bad.  When you sing, you have to use a lot of breath, so maybe this is going on all the time, and I am just not aware of it until I am in a moment that causes me anxiety, or nervousness..But seriously guys, It's been really hard to breathe for a month now...I doubt I went my whole life like this, and i am just becoming aware of it now. I think something is wrong.

And last, the medications I am taking.  I take Wellbutrin for depression and occasional Naproxen for inflammation or injuries.  I've never had a problem with either and have been on them long before this started happening, alongside some anxiety medicine as well.

So I am writing about it now, because I am experiencing it now.  It feels like the air is really thick.  I had it last night, and then now. It will go away for days at a time and then come back.

Has anyone had problems with breathing after quitting smoking, from an injury that no longer hurt, from anxiety or breathing patterns in general, or from Wellbutrin or Naproxen or any other medication or supplements?

Maybe it's just a combination of a lot of things, or my back isn't healed up yet, or its just anxiety, but I find myself having to use this inhaler more and more, and I don't like NOT knowing whats going on with my body,and I do NOT like not being able to breathe, and my doctors don't seem to know why this has is happening either, after a long list of elimination with meds, resting instead of working out, etc...

It's all scary.

I am just sitting on the couch right now, anxiety is high, it feels like I am trying to breathe under water...and I just used the inhaler. What the * is going on? Does anyone have any insights? I know there are many possible contributing factors, and maybe its in front of my face, but right now I need help.

[KayFly]

Woodsgnome,

Thank you for your response  . I will look into the supplements you take that have helped.  Its nice that someone relates to breathing problems. I'm sorry you have suffered with it so severely.  I feel calmer just talking about it.

K

[woodsgnome]

So I forgot something else that sometimes helps, but it's strictly non-medical. It's more along the lines of a mantra, and it sometimes come in handy just for general purposes, but it has settled the breathing too, so I'll mention it here.

It just involves two words...one said on the in-breath, the other on the exhale. The words: Peace/Love...I don't usually have a set order as to where I use it, in-breath or out, but interchange them. It can almost seem lost in a real struggle for breath, but I really think it has helped me recover more often than not. It at least reduces the tendency to panic and try for huge breaths, which only exacerbate the problem.

And, during non-asthmatic times, it can relieve the anxiety/stress...say, of a social situation that triggers me sometimes. Only the Inner Critic won't like it, poor guy.

Pretty simple, not a panacea, probably psychosomatic for sure; but it comforts me like nothing else. Peace/Love.

[KayFly]

Love it!

I'm all over it.  I've been doing lots of meditation/breathing exercises and positive mantra's to try and remain relaxed.  This is a great tool, simple, positive, and I can see how it works. Thanks

[woodsgnome]

I must have been tired to have forgotten these constituents of my breathing regimen:

...strong coffee--literally saved me when I didn't have my inhaler on a couple of occasions;

...honey--raw is said to be better than pasteurized but in a pinch either has helpled;

...salmon oil helps long-term for omega-3 content--wild-caught is better, though;

...eliminating or vastly reducing breads and especially dairy helped me as well.

I'm not a health nut or food geek, just hyper aware of what can be done to alleviate shortness of breath episodes. Took lots of trial and error to figure much of it--I'm kind of doctor-phobic and live in an area with minimal institutional health options--1 general practice doc for a huge swath of territory--but the peace/tranquility are what drew me initially, so I've paid close attention to living with my breathing probs in that context.


...

[KayFly]

thank you for the extra help. I get it. I actually noticed dairy made it worse, because of mucus buildup maybe. I had no idea so many natural nutrients would help. Very interesting about coffee.  I'm kinda bummed after a month I'm finding myself needing the inhaler more,but its been a high emotionally stressful time so I hope the storm will pass. But I'm really grateful for all this Info. 

[KayFly]

I'm so frustrated. I ended up in the emergency room last night after a doctors appointment , because they found some high-level of something in my blood . And they thought that I had a possible blood clot which was making it hard for me to breathe. So I was in the hospital all night and they didn't find any blood clot.

Every doctor I have talk to thinks that my breathing problems are coming from anxiety. And I noticed that when I use the inhaler or drink too much caffeine I get anxiety to a point that makes me not to be able to breathe.

So no more inhaler , no strong coffee for this girl, and they ruled out that it is an allergy problem since I don't have problems with it when I sleep. I've gone off of three medications . So now I'm just really frustrated because I feel like even with taking anxiety medication it's just not in control and it leads me to gasping for air for days .

I've had anxiety for as long as I can remember and usually when I can't breathe but it's for a short amount of time during some kind of anxiety attack . But for some reason it's getting worse and the states of not being able to breathe as well as normal, are prolong to add to three days or four days at a time.

I may try some of the supplementation that you have used for breathing Woodsgnome . It's just scary not being able to breathe and not knowing how to fix it . Some of the supplementation that you recommended, I actually already have a pretty high intake of, like vitamin D, vitamin c, and magnesium on a daily basis.

I guess different things work for different people . But I'm just really frustrated I'm spending so much time at the doctors and I've eliminated so many things that could be the problem . I guess at this point the only answer is that it's my anxiety and I probably would benefit from some breathing exercises, More yoga, and possibly more medication for anxiety . I wanted to be on as little medication as I could but I can't breathe .

I'm feeling a little bit depressed about it today since I feel like none of the medical doctors have been able to help me . But it's been getting worse . And an inhaler makes it worse from the adrenaline . I guess I just needed to vent about it . I went pretty nuts after being in the hospital all night last night . I don't know

[Dutch Uncle]

What a tough spot you're in KayFly.

Stay in contact with the medics. I hope something will turn up to alleviate your shortness of breath and/or the anxiety.

[KayFly]

Thanks Dutch. I will, and I also hope it subsides.

[woodsgnome]

That is so frustrating, it's a loop that's hard to fix...it took me years to get any handle on it, and it'll still flair up anyway. I know I'm also running contrary to some notions of how I'm "supposed" to live (e.g. no pets; I've had oodles of big furry dogs and presently a fluffy cat...all no-nos but my peace quotient with them outdoes my anxiety without 'em, so they win, and I try to figure my asthma approach around that).

Anything to reduce the anxiety/stress, though, is probably the best starting point. I have no experience with yoga, but it can be helpful, I've read. My best self-treatment might just be living a very low stress existence far from the madding crowd, but that doesn't sound feasible given your situation with school coming up and, primarily, how recent it's been since you've ventured away from your family stuff. It really does take time, and each of us would like to get going NOW, and it truly hurts when the roadblocks are not just mental, but physical as well.

Remember, though, that little saying I mentioned? Love-inbreath/peace-outbreath, and vice-versa. I hope it doesn't seem silly; it did when I started it, and I often forget it in social situations. I've no idea if it ever directly affects the breathing, but just the words, without judging them, helps to "tone" and settle things, for me.

The inhaler conundrum is puzzling, as certainly it seems like you should have some recourse other than emergency rooms. The interactions with other drugs may be a factor as well.  And while I'm pretty much old hat with my own stuff, I'd never venture to get into drug opinions via this medium, much as I want to help any way I can.

Perhaps your T has some other clients or colleagues who've had the same problems, and maybe that's someone else you could consider asking.

I wish I had the sure remedy, but the physical issues can be as goofy to get a handle on as the emotional ones, let alone how they play on each other.b Unfortunately, much medical training covers only the physical, and we're left to slog through the emotional mud as best we can if their potions don't do the trick. It isn't perfect; but we're still trying.

May you find peace with this. 

[KayFly]

Thanks for your reply Woodsgnome.  Yeah I think it is rooted from anxiety. Never had these problems before I started taking psychiatric medication (besides benzo's which never caused side effects, but is addictive nonetheless, which is why I have been trying to taper off)...I spoke with my psychiatrist and he agreed we need an immediate reevaluation of what meds I am taking. I decided to take a slower taper off the benzo too (it helps anxiety)

I do need anything that will reduce stress. For me that is writing, singing, working out and when it comes to school, which unfortunately may set me into some anxiety (especially as an actress).  I will have to take extra care, and I may have set backs, but I at least have an amazing acting teacher who I consider a friend and someone I can reach out to when I am at school.  It also helps to be able to talk about these things on here and feel supported.

I don't think your mantra sounds silly at all. Lol well when I first did it, it felt a little silly, but I have done extensive yoga classes, and that is one thing in Kundalini yoga, they teach you to do, breath in sat, breath out na. I forget what they mean but its something * good. Haha.

I just have to learn how to manage my anxiety, and get on the right set of medication. I need medication, because I fall into deep deep depression as well and it can be dangerous and crippling. So I know this about myself, and I will continue forward and take advantage of these days I have off before school. It sounds scary now, but once i am in the hang of it, I think I will be happy, for i am a naturally social person, and a natural born performing artist. I believe I can thrive in those environments

But yes, the recent estrangement of my family leaves me in devastating depression sometimes. Last night on the way back from the ER I was so fed up with all this pain, then physical symptoms, I just started screaming. I felt kinda bad for my boyfriend. He has to watch all this. But, he's always nice and caring. He empowered me to do whatever I needed, even if that was take medicine and go to bed instead of eating.

At least I have a safe home, where I can come and allow myself to feel these things, and in school, staying on top of my school work is really important to me, so I think as long as I am doing well in school, I will feel a sense of self esteem and that in itself helps me.

Thanks for stickin with me through this thread. I think that, now that I know it's my anxiety causing the problem, I just have to try and avoid too stressful of situations. My T has been out of town the last 2 weeks, and she is one of the most validating people in my life, and I see her on Friday so that will be good.

I think between my therapist, psychiatrist and maybe some group therapy, I can get through this. I can do it. But I am grateful you are here, as are the others, while I go through this grueling first year of jumping into a whole new world.

Thank you Woodsgnome

[woodsgnome]

In order not to be repetitive, I'm responding to both the threads you posted today via this solo observation.

Boy, do I agree on how pesky those triggers/EF's can be some days. Once I wondered if they were that bad for everyone. After being on this site, now I know how prevalent that feeling truly is.

Okay, a couple things pop out, and if they don't make sense, they won't make sense--but in this realm of cptsd et al, nothing makes sense anyway. So I'll just pop.

Many times I notice, and know, the desperate pull to find "the way out of this" or however we choose to say it. Well, maybe yes, maybe no, but I'm wondering if the better way out isn't really THE way, but just YOUR way. That there's a way, and it may not be perfect, might not be THE way, but it's YOUR way. More messy process than clear destination, with lots of stumbles en route. 

Part of your way appears to be helped by that support network that you have created, ranging from your boyfriend's empathy to your T to your acting teacher's encouragement and by sharing here. I didn't have any support network, but more because I avoided it. My Inner Critic can point fingers at me for that, but I only did my best. I had no idea how this cptsd story of mine would cycle back around and hit me again later. The support network wasn't there when I ran into the roadblocks. My mistake; guess it was part of my way, sadly.

I have an old book called "Taming the Gremlin" and it proposes that one way to deal with the inner critic/gremlin was to "play with options". It didn't suggest there was a perfect or sure method or technique, but just to play with the options you have or have created. But it's so serious, and it seems so hopeless, and these maddening triggers are all over. Yes, they are, but looking around for those options to play with helped me realize it was, indeed, my way. Maybe it can be part of yours. Not perfect, or is it?

[KayFly]

Hey,

Thank you woodsgnome for sharing that. I am becoming aware that everyone has their own way, or thing that works for them. I hadn't really looked over you comment in detail. I have been overwhelmed. Sorry just getting back now...and in a bit of crisis.

I am on day 3 of severe breathing problems now.  They are becoming more frequent and beginning to last longer.

I was really hesitant to go on Psychiatric Medication in the first place because I have been thrown for some loops.  But I have been severely depressed, and so I became open to the idea. But ever since I started taking the medicines, I have developed a problem with breathing.

I tried beta blockers, then went off, since they thought that was the problem
Strong coffee didn't help...
The inhaler didn't help...
Even when I am in a calm mood or just sitting down, It's still hard to breath
But its not an allergy, because it doesn't effect me at night.
I have been taking some anti anxiety medication for quite some time, so I know that's not the problem.
But high stress/anxiety situations are good to avoid. I went to the mall with my boyfriend yesterday and almost ended up hyperventilating and then I was in hysterics by the end of the night because this is soo frustrating

I am taking lot's of omega's and vitamins/supplements that support breathing

SO!! I've narrowed it down. I am on way less medication now, but I'm on an antidepressant Wellbutrin. I think this might be the problem. I can hardly get my psychiatrists attention due to his high clientele, so I decided to go off of it today, stay rested, inside. Boyfriend just left for India this morning, so I will have the time to do so. 

I think I will take St. Johns Wort which can help with depression, instead for now.

I can't really be open to prescription strength antidepressants at this point (at least not for awhile) because this is so severe, and I have had problems with SSRI's in the past.

Though I am a bit afraid I will fall into depression. I just want to go off it, see if the breathing improves, and if I need an alternative, I will find one. There are good chinese herbs out there for depression and anxiety too. For now St. John's Wort, lots of rest, and minimal psychiatric medication that could possibly be causing this problem.

Ugh. Needed to get all that out there. Thanks for reading

K

[woodsgnome]

Ugh is right...breathing probs are so entangled with emotional ups/downs it's hard to coordinate dealing with both.

Grain of salt opinion is the St. John's Wort I've run across is said to be more effective long-term.

Much as I shy away from asking specific meds, I'm wondering if the docs inhalers were for overall or short-term use? The overall ones usually are based on steroids and the short-term albuterol. The latter is what I use, as I had several bad side effects on non-breathing probs using the steroidal-based ones.

The albuterol is supposed to be a rescue-only, occasional use but I learned long ago that I could "cheat" a bit and it worked better--meaning I didn't always wait for the rescue to happen but kind of pre-empted it by taking it before strenuous activity that might set off the asthma, for instance.

I got a huge chuckle once from a doctor I asked about this, and after lecturing me on how not to use albuterol that way, and in his next sentence joking about how he used it before he ran marathons. Umm, ooookay, nothing like having 2 standards--one for patients and the one that secretly works for m.d.'s. By spotting his contradiction, maybe my hyper-vigilance does have a plus side after all.

Another supplement I'd forgotten I use is mullein. The weather patterns around this region has shifted a bit towards autumnal currents so my breathing gets a tad worse, and I start adding a mullein lung complex--mullein leaf, wild cherry bark, with platycodon and elecampine root extract, licorice and ginger in the mix.

I used to have a friend who actually harvested the mullein, but nowadays I use the supplement version. Another form in which to use it is as a tea, which is also true for ginger.

Basically, my system I've winnowed to steady long-term adjuncts like the supplements and the short-term use of the albuterol inhaler. Regarding the latter, it also comes in forms that can be used with a counter-top device called a nebulizer where you use the albuterol in liquid form a breathing tube fed from the machine. I used one for a short while, they're kind of a pain to monkey with. For now, fingers crossed, the inhaler type works okay.

Unfortunately, some of the current medical practices seem more based on pharmaceutical pricing strategies than what really works. Best bet is a specialist, bonus is one who's actually had asthma themselves, and/or a naturopath for alternative versions, but in all of these they seem to have some who get a bit preachy. Plus I'd check into who might be available in your college health service. One would think they might have someone more independent of the "system" but I could be wrong there, never know.

One last note on chinese medicine--I tried acupuncture for a bit, and it seemed effective, but I didn't stay on it very long as it was getting too expensive.

Whew--I'm so sorry to hear of your current relapses. Hang in there is pretty frustrating, but in the end trial and error has me on a fairly-even keel, with the caveat it took years to figure this body's reactions and re-reactions out.

I hope you can get a handle on this soon.   

[KayFly]

Hey. Yeah I am making a long term plan for St. Johns Wort, through a really clean vitamin and supplement brand "Nature's Sunshine"...their products we have found to be very effective

I'm just tired of having to recover from taking psychiatric medicine. Like its nice to have something to help me feel a little less depressed, but I need to be able to breathe.

I'm on my way out to the store to buy a supplement/tea containing mullein, and other helpful herbs. I have a feeling my breathing will improve once all the Wellbutrin is out of my system, likely after the weekend.

That's funny about the albuterol. That's the same thing they gave me for "worst case scenerios" Haha but I also used it as a precautionary and it caused quite the anxiety spurts, heightened heart rate (not to mention Wellbutrin was doing that)...The doc told me to just take one puff and then gargle with water so that so much of the medicine wouldn't get in my system, but at this point, I am just not using it, because it doesn't really work...it kind of makes it worse. I need to figure out what's causing it.

i'll probably know in a few days. Oh yeah...Chinese medicine...totally expensive...i know...I'm just open to different therapies and herbs working for me.

Hopefully I don't get too depressed going off this drug, but then again breathing outweighs depression at this point. I'm sure i'll be fine.

Thanks for sharing all of your helpful suggestions. I would consider seeing some kind of specialist if this persists, but I think its just a bad reaction to the psyche meds...hopefully...

Hope all is well.

K