A.N.T. - Automatic Negative Thoughts

Started by spryte, October 09, 2014, 12:53:15 PM

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spryte

I thought this might be a useful topic. I'm reading this blog, and she wrote a post about A.N.T.s (Ants, fleas...why is there so much bug talk? Lol)

Automatic Negative Thoughts

http://perfectlyawfulusa.blogspot.com/2011_07_01_archive.html

I haven't read the book that she's talking about, but it's definitely on my "to read" list.

I am not a huge fan of the positivity movement, but I do agree that our feelings often follow our thoughts and that if the majority of our thoughts are negative, that it's going to have an impact on both our emotional state, and our physical state.

And, thought it's difficult to catch the conscious automatic thoughts..."I'm fat" while looking at yourself in the mirror if we slow down and pay attention to what we're thinking, we can catch those thoughts and reframe them...

what *I* have a difficult time with are the unconscious automatic thoughts. The ones that I don't even realize that I'm having until it's too late and I'm in an anxious tailspin. I have to wonder, if I could catch and cut those thoughts off before they gathered steam, if I wouldn't be able to head those "episodes" off. It's like the conscious automatic thoughts are the pre-recorded tapes that our abusers gave us, that we have to stop...rewind, and tape over.

The unconscious thoughts are like malware that just constantly run in the background of all of our other programs. It's funny, I got some kind of virus on my computer a few weeks ago, and even though I've removed as much of it as I have the technical skills to do...it hasn't quite been the same ever since.

When I'm struggling with trying to get myself to function, to do the things I need to do...that's what I feel like is going on. Some kind of virus, or malware running in my background making everything else glitchy, and run slow.


schrödinger's cat

#1
Malware is a good way of looking at it.

I've been trying to beat my ANTs for a while now. I know the concept from a book I read - "Feeling Good" by David Burns, a book on how to beat depression using CBT methods. I can recommend it. It's very detailed and has lots of exercizes and worksheets, and it's lacking the "YAY YAY THIS METHOD WILL FIX EVERYTHINGGG!!1!" enthusiasm that's typical of some self-help books. One thing I particularly liked was that Burns doesn't recommend positive thinking. He says it doesn't really work all that well, because a part of ourselves always knows better than to believe the hype. What he recommends instead is realistic thinking. Not: "life is WONDERFUL", instead: "life has its ups and downs, but it's not all downs and there are moments where it's wonderful". That's doable.

THE most helpful thing was a list of logical fallacies that are typical of depressed thinking. (This one: http://www.therapistaid.com/therapy-worksheet/cognitive-distortions/cbt/none, scroll down a bit.) I typed that list out and stuck it to a wall so I could memorize it. At that time, I was depressed so often and such a lot of flashbacks that those habits of thought were bleeding over into the times when I was well.

Another thing that's proven helpful was a CBT worksheet called the ABC&D form. (Like this one: http://iveronicawalsh.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/cbtafg_abcdextract_handout.pdf).

One thing I noticed (about myself, that is, but maybe this is true for others) is... sorry, where was I? Ah. What I realized was, NATs or ANTs are partly a habit. It was a rut I was stuck in. The ABC&D form helps you identify ANTs and then replace them with realistic thoughts. So they're almost a way of doing what Pete Walker calls... what was it? Thought Replacement? And I discovered that sometimes, once a particular ANT had been dealt with once, it had lost some of its power. So doing the ABC&D again and again helped me chop away at my ANTs. They still come crawling back, so I'm not there yet, but it's such a relief to find something - anything - that helps.

keepfighting

Have you tried CBT yet, spryte?

It has certainly helped me recognize and better deal with ANTs.

spryte

Keep Fighting - I have not "officially" done any CBT. My therapist isn't a CBT therapist, and though she uses those tools sometimes, we've mostly just kind of been trying to get at the root of a lot of these behaviors rather than trying to change them. (Truthfully, I'm more than a little conflicted about how helpful she is being to my process)

I do some CBT stuff on my own naturally though, with trying to identify thoughts, look at them rationally, and then try to reframe them.

CS - thanks for those. They'll be super helpful. I printed both of them out. I was actually JUST yesterday thinking that I needed to look up the list of thought distortions and start memorizing them. So thanks! Super timely!

keepfighting

Quote from: spryte on October 09, 2014, 05:07:01 PM
Keep Fighting - I have not "officially" done any CBT. My therapist isn't a CBT therapist, and though she uses those tools sometimes, we've mostly just kind of been trying to get at the root of a lot of these behaviors rather than trying to change them. (Truthfully, I'm more than a little conflicted about how helpful she is being to my process)

I do some CBT stuff on my own naturally though, with trying to identify thoughts, look at them rationally, and then try to reframe them.

My t offered CBT with a maximum of 10 sessions. During the same time, she adviced me to buy a book on setting healthy boundaries (in Dutch, alas for you, I still sometimes reread it and secretly call it my 'blue bible' because of its blue cover and clear and respectful instructions to forming healthier relationships). There were also some exercises that supplemented the CBT treatment.

See how far you get with the CBT stuff that you have and if you feel you need more direction, you can always look for a t who offers it. My t really helped me see through my confused and helpless first weeks of CBT exercises and made me see how my ANTs started having less impact.

I once read a journalist who adviced that everyone should have CBT because it helps you identify the irrational thoughts that lead to bad decision making (....every day bad decisions like buying overpriced stuff or something like that...;) ).

Which exercises are you doing now?

pam

I too read Burns' FEELING GOOD! I actually skipped straight to chapter 11 called "The Approval Addiction." Life changing for me. I left the bookstore different in one little way, but it had a very positive effect on the way I looked at depending on others for a sense of self. Anyway, I went back and bought the book later, but I had already gotten out of it what I did that first day.

On the ABCD method--there is a step missing. It should be ABCDE! I learned that from another of my books, LEARNED OPTIMISM by Martin Seligman.

Step E is for "Energization." So after you dispute the belief, truly dispute it to convince yourself that there is another way to look at it, you write a final paragraph that explains what you learned and why you now actually FEEL DIFFERENT. This is what I picture as the jumping up and down stage where you are so happy to see you were wrong in the first place, lol. I'm not even a big fan of CBT, and I don't think most therapists do it right and that's why so many people feel like they fail at it. But these steps are really good for problem solving, in everyday situations, etc. They are pretty useless tho if you're lying on the floor crying or can't get out of bed from depression. But if and when you atch yourself with the ANTs, I think it can work.

I really think it's important to do step E because it will force your mind to put the result in your own words, physically write it out, and then see it for yourself. Uses more senses, and will stick better.

pam

http://www.earn-network.org/files/site/32903/WSRtABCDEtechnique.pdf

Ok here's a link to the ABCDE method. It has a sample of someone doing it. This shows how it works, but also shows it working for something "everyday"--applying for a job. But still I guess it's good if you're the type to spiral out of control, beginning with something everyday. Then it would nip it in the bud.

schrödinger's cat

Thanks, Pam. I didn't know about step E, but it sounds very sensible - balancing out our negative inner imagery and thoughts with something positive, so it'll stick. I'll go have a look at your link.

alovelycreature

Hey Spryte. If you're struggling with the CBT you might want to read about Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT). It's different from CBT in the way that it teaches you to accept your thoughts and not give power to them. We have the thoughts we have, because we have language. Having language gives words more or less power. ACT focuses on recognizing negative thoughts and nonjudgmentally accepting them as "thoughts." It also encourages mindfulness and meditation. So, if you're having the thought, "I'm worthless," recognize this is only a thought, don't judge the thought, just see it for what it is, and bring attention back to the present moment.

There are studies coming out now showing that CBT is good in the short term, but doesn't give long term change. ACT gives short and long term change because it is a life style change. The focus of treatment is focused on mindfulness and furthering meditation practice, which over time extinguishes negative thoughts because you're living in the present mindfully, with acceptance, and lack of judgment. The thoughts come up less and less often when you truly focus on the present.

I find this a huge struggle to do personally. Especially with ANT. I'm thinking personally about trying to meditate for 10-15 minutes a day to practice doing this. Recently I've been doing walking meditation and really focusing on the 5 senses. What do I hear? What do I smell? How do my feet feel hitting the ground? I'm very anxious so I find the walking mindfulness doable right now. When a thought comes up, just accept it nonjudgmentally, and return to focusing on breathing or sounds. Whatever works for you that's the present moment. 

Also, if you're not finding your therapist helpful, or thinking she isn't helping you the way you would like them to, it doesn't hurt to say something. I've found when I've expressed frustration feeling that the relationship isn't working, it's lead to a lot of helpful conversation. For me, it allowed me to practice sticking up for myself and having control over a situation. I felt it made the relationship with the therapist stronger. When I was in therapy, I had to go to a couple different therapists before finding one I liked. A good therapist won't take it personally, but might question if you're leaving out of fear or because you're feeling stuck. Sometimes you just have to find the right therapist that you feel connected with.

Quote from: spryte on October 09, 2014, 05:07:01 PM
Keep Fighting - I have not "officially" done any CBT. My therapist isn't a CBT therapist, and though she uses those tools sometimes, we've mostly just kind of been trying to get at the root of a lot of these behaviors rather than trying to change them. (Truthfully, I'm more than a little conflicted about how helpful she is being to my process)

I do some CBT stuff on my own naturally though, with trying to identify thoughts, look at them rationally, and then try to reframe them.

CS - thanks for those. They'll be super helpful. I printed both of them out. I was actually JUST yesterday thinking that I needed to look up the list of thought distortions and start memorizing them. So thanks! Super timely!

Badmemories

@ Spryte,

You wrote..
what *I* have a difficult time with are the unconscious automatic thoughts. The ones that I don't even realize that I'm having until it's too late and I'm in an anxious tailspin. I have to wonder, if I could catch and cut those thoughts off before they gathered steam, if I wouldn't be able to head those "episodes" off. It's like the conscious automatic thoughts are the pre-recorded tapes that our abusers gave us, that we have to stop...rewind, and tape over.

I am coming out of denial that I actually did have an Inner critic. As I am working on My problems, I am finding the She is there and that She is running in the background!

Great description! Very helpful to me! Malware!  :yes: :yes: