[Dutch Uncle]

No retribution, only love to you my friend.

I've hardly ever seen such a disingenuous statement in my life. I've hardly been invalidated as much is this. You are sending me love? This is love I can do without. Since it isn't love, not in the slightest.

[sanmagic7]

love comes in all forms, on all levels, in many differing degrees.  it is the most precious gift we can be given.  i have no doubt 3roses was sincere with her gift of love to you.  i'm just sorry you couldn't accept it.

it's too bad that the moderation job was an act of volunteering to do things that are unpleasant.  that is very sad to me.   i would have hoped you had looked at volunteering to be a moderator for this forum as something well worth doing.  i think it's a valuable job. 

as far as retribution towards you, i would hope that we're beyond that.  we're all wounded, we're all looking to heal, and we're all learning, even when we make mistakes or through the mistakes of others.   we're in this together.

[Dutch Uncle]

Love doesn't come in the either form you or Three Roses present it to me.

[Three Roses]

It doesn't matter if you feel it or not, DU. I respect you and send you my brotherly love in my thoughts toward you. You have been a valuable asset to this community and many have been comforted by your words here. I hope that will be true in the future, which it will be if you stay.

As far as me being disingenuous, I'm sorry you feel that way; I can wish someone well without having to agree 100% with them. I did not agree with you, that's true, but it doesn't affect my regard and appreciation of you and your contributions.

So love to you!

[movementforthebetter]

It certainly was never my intent for anyone to be singled out, punished, or for you to feel you have to resign over this issue, Dutch Uncle. That said, I totally get why you would. There is no way I personally could handle moderation here and I doubt I'll ever be altruistic enough to want to.

Thank you for your service to the community, which was above and beyond any reasonable expectations for a person working through their own challenges. If you ever choose to take it up again, I would support you, but I also get if you're just done. That's fair!

My challenges to the rules were made in that thread, no need to rehash here. But allow me to reiterate that they have nothing to do with you personally. Just wanted to let you know that I do value your presence here, and your perspective. I even read through the original thread on swears and you and I were of fairly similar minds (your posts were from 2015, though).

To be honest I cannot imagine much being harder than for a group of people, more easily triggered than others, to have to monitor themselves! A whole bunch on unflattering similies come to mind. Ideally, we could have moderators without c-ptsd, but then they'd have no reason to be here. We are all muddling through together.

I hope you'll feel better about this soon, whatever shape your future participation takes.

[Dutch Uncle]

It doesn't matter if you feel it or not, DU.

LOL.

[Dutch Uncle]

It certainly was never my intent for anyone to be singled out, punished, or for you to feel you have to resign over this issue, Dutch Uncle.

One thing is certain, you were not the single one who beat up on me. Half the site ganged up on me. Including my fellow moderators.

My challenges to the rules were made in that thread, no need to rehash here. But allow me to reiterate that they have nothing to do with you personally. [...] I even read through the original thread on swears and you and I were of fairly similar minds (your posts were from 2015, though).

I can assure you my moderation has never been 'personal'. I'm of the opinion I (as moderator) should uphold the guidelines as they are. Not to uphold them as I personally think they should be. If it had been up to the member Dutch Uncle I would have shrugged it off. You can rest assured I, as a private person, still stand behind everything I said in 2015. But becoming a moderator doesn't mean that suddenly my private views become the site's standard. IMHO.

Typing any form of a swear word is not acceptable "f***" or  "f**k" for example. The filter will pick up most full swear words and replace them with an "*" but it will not pick up  "f***" or  "f**k" so these are what may slip by (or swear words that are not in the filter).

I was so stupid to think a**, b***h and d**k would fall into the same category. 

I hope you'll feel better about this soon, whatever shape your future participation takes.

I think my time here is done pretty soon. It's open hunting season on me now. I've experienced this before. It's already been said I "do not seem remotely concerned with the effects these decisions of yours have had on many of us, possibly including causing people to leave the boards." I was so stupid to think moderating by the guidelines would actually keep people at the boards, in particular those who are offended by swearing and count on the 'staff' to uphold the rules. That the site and community they signed up to actually would be as presented as in the guidelines.
I was wrong.
It's now being suggested that "maybe we all need to grow thicker skins, and stop focusing on everything that offends us". I'm baffled by the sudden turn-around on 'offensive language'. I would have appreciated it if I had been given the memo before I started moderating.

Oh well. I wish everybody happy swearing!

[radical]

I've kept out of this until now, and usually I don't read journal entries (just a thing of mine)

I've been mildly concerned about this situation, but don't know how to help.  This is such an intense situation, a forum for people recovering from developmental trauma.  We talk about our most tender feelings, about our pain, humiliation, shame, the experience of powerlessness and abuse, and all the fallout from that.  We also talk about sex, love, hate and religion -  in fact, we talk about all the things most people avoid discussing other than with their most intimate friends and then just occasionally because they are potentially incendiary.  We do it because we have to, because we are determined to heal, because we are gutsy and strong despite everything that has happened to us.

I've often thought moderation is a huge ask, an enormous responsibility.  I know I need to get away quite regularly because I come to feel overwhelmed, and I'm very glad it isn't my responsibility to oversee the discussions, especially for such long shifts.  I feel for and appreciate the three of you who do.   Do we need to lighten the load somehow?

Dutch Uncle, I think I can appreciate that you might feel betrayed and hurt as well as angry.  You do a stressful job with long hours.  I appreciate you.  Equally, I think it is important that we are able to talk to each other with authenticity.  Fawning is a problem that I'm trying hard to overcome, but it is a judgement call about how to approach difficult feelings about things others have said and done.  Yet if we don't bring all of ourselves here (as respectfully as we are able), just the nice bits, how can we trust each other?  I know if there was nothing but warm fuzzies to anything anyone ever said, I wouldn't like it.  It would be one big fawn fest and I'd start to have that sickly feeling of being patronised by others, and repressed, myself.

I don't want anyone to leave.  I hope Meursualt will return, though I have no idea why he went. I don't know what the answer is, but we are all going to get things wrong now and then, so we have to be patient and forgiving.  I can't see any way around that.   

[movementforthebetter]

Dutch Uncle, I would like to clarify some things. I did not gang up on you. I did not send any private messages, though I would have been within my rights to do so. My words are chosen carefully and posted publicly, and will continue to be. I am not here for drama but wellness. And yeah, I am going to comment on my observations from time to time, especially if I perceive an injustice. And apparently my words ruffle feathers, or, dare I say, can be triggering. I was very careful to not lay blame but instead question the guidelines and their application. I didn't even know which mod had contacted the members. But this is the internet and any words here words can be a trigger to anyone, regardless of what the words are... Which was my entire point. That's the last I'll comment on it. I am sorry if you think I bear you ill will or wanted something to happen to you. I certainly did not. I am truly sorry that my words have hurt you.

[Dutch Uncle]

@radical
As I've said in many posts in the "Welcome to OOTS" thread: the guidelines are here to keep this a safe place for all members.

When the guidelines are not enforced, this is an unsafe place.

Last year there has been an elaborate discussion on swearing, and the rules as they stand have been drawn up, by the administration, as a result. I know there are plenty of folks here who wouldn't mind swearing all day long. Others are apparently very sensitive to it. I've had posts of mine moderated for language I even didn't know was offensive. And I still don't understand how people can find it offensive. But it was deemed it was, and thus I refrain from such language.
Or I could have left. But I didn't.

I don't want to scare anyone away, not as a member, and also not as a moderator. I know from personal experience how hard it can be to get moderated. And it's no fun to have to 'dish out'. But if the guidelines are to have any substance, then moderation is needed at times. When the guidelines are violated.

But that's not my business anymore. In any shape or form.

[Dutch Uncle]

My words are chosen carefully and posted publicly, and will continue to be. I am not here for drama but wellness. And yeah, I am going to comment on my observations from time to time, especially if I perceive an injustice. And apparently my words ruffle feathers, or, dare I say, can be triggering. I was very careful to not lay blame but instead question the guidelines and their application. I didn't even know which mod had contacted the members. But this is the internet and any words here words can be a trigger to anyone, regardless of what the words are... Which was my entire point.

I've chosen my words carefully as well. Apart from the "questioning the guidelines" I could have typed what you posted. I was upholding the guidelines.

I am sorry if you think I bear you ill will or wanted something to happen to you. I certainly did not. I am truly sorry that my words have hurt you.

I do not think you bear me ill-will.

[Three Roses]

No one ganged up on you, least of all your fellow moderators. You were disagreed with, Dutch. That is all. You hurt some feelings, not in your adherence to the Guidelines but in your approach. I hurt people's feelings all the time! It's part of being a human. We learn to say "oops, sorry" and move on.

It's not open season on anyone, no one's mad, we are all just damaged people who've evidently suffered some sort of mass trigger

I still extend to everyone my best regards, and my most genuine wishes for peace & healing.

[mourningdove]

When the guidelines are not enforced, this is an unsafe place.

Right, and when they are enforced in an authoritarian manner, and with poor communication, then this is an unsafe place.

It's already been said I "do not seem remotely concerned with the effects these decisions of yours have had on many of us, possibly including causing people to leave the boards."

Yes, I said that because it was what I believed at the time, and now I believe it even more. I haven't once seen you consider why it was that so many people were upset. Instead, you have just been blaming and accusing everyone who had a problem with decisions that you made as moderator. Everyone makes mistakes, and you don't seem to have considered that you might have in this instance.

I've never had anything personal against you, and I hope that you don't leave the site unless you really want to, but I'm very glad that you stepped down as moderator, especially after having seen the way you have dealt with all this. You now seem to be saying that people initially had a problem because you enforced the guidelines, but that was never the case. The problem was in how you enforced them and in the ways you communicated about it.

[Dutch Uncle]

When the guidelines are not enforced, this is an unsafe place.

Right

&

I'm very glad that you stepped down as moderator

That's at least two things we agree on.

The fact you don't see me considering doesn't mean I don't.

As far as the communication is concerned, I've already made my view on that matter clear. And it's clear I hold a minority position on it. I can live with that.

To err on the side of caution I have disabled all PM's (except the Administrator's) so that all commination will be out in the open. I've never been fond of PM's anyway, so it's no loss.

[Dutch Uncle]

It's not open season on anyone, no one's mad, we are all just damaged people who've evidently suffered some sort of mass trigger

I hope you're right, but it wouldn't be the first time I would be the target of a deliberate and orchestrated witch hunt by a collective. Very secretively of course. But I have ironclad proof. That definitely IS a massive trigger for me. And it most definitely played a role in my actions.

I hope I'll fare better this time, but I'm not holding my breath.