Functioning "in public", collapsing in private

[schrödinger's cat]

Does anyone else do that? While you're with people or at work, you're functioning okay, you're competent, friendly, sociable, everything's alright (at least on the surface). Then you get home and collapse. You only jiiust have enough energy left to drag yourself to the sofa. Nothing gets done, there's no energy left for anything else, just for your favourite kind of dissociation.

Or you're functioning well at home, while you're alone. So you become confident: why not dip your toe into this-or-that project, or into a bit more of social contact than you're used to? So you do that. And it's okay, you're functioning, but once you get home... see above.

If several other people besides myself do that, this might mean that it's part of what might happen when you've got CPTSD. Which would be hugely calming, because this thing - whenever it happens - feels so weird.

Now I'm beginning to wonder if we're not over-extending ourselves "in public", keeping up appearances and so on. I had to learn how to keep up appearances so the abuse would stop, and I'd be very surprised if I were the only one. I'm so used to it by now, I'm not even aware that this takes an effort. And then when I'm drained and low on energy, I'm absolutely baffled as to why this is happening - because I'm still not aware of the effort it took to simply seem un-CPTSD-ish.

Do you think this could be it? I'm not sure. Maybe there's more to it.

Anyways, if several of us do this, I think we should get to invent a name for it. Something funny maybe, in the style of "flying monkeys" for the lackeys of a narcissist or "hoovering" for when an abuser tries to make nice. Or maybe something serious is better, that's also possible. Or maybe there already is a name for it, even better.

Then we can write a glossary entry so people who come to this site can read it and go "...phew, not just me then". And maybe someone has some coping strategies?

[spryte]

Well, you've just described the last three years of my life, which is exactly what brought me to this point. People look at me and have no idea that I am barely functioning. Even now...just recently I caught myself thinking..."Well, there's definitely some larger reason that me and bf aren't ready to move in together. Oh, yes, right...I don't want him around on those days when I'm watching Netflix for 10 hours. Hmmm...that's prob not healthy."

I work 40 hours a week. Sometimes, I manage to be social. Until May of this year, I was going to school full time. But, over the last three years I have watched my functioning deteriorate. I can get things done - when I absolutely just can't put them off any more.

Homework? Done absolutely last minute. Never missed an assignment, but started taking more and more online classes because they all followed the same structure and were super easy to cut corners with. (Still managed to write amazing papers pulled out of my a** hours before deadline, lol)

Grocery shopping? Probably not until I run out of dehydrated mashed potatoes. Or, I'm eating way too much fast food because I can't face the idea of the energy that it will take to shop.

Showering? Hmm...how close do I have to be to people today? Am I seeing the boyfriend?

Apartment? Ug. I'm going to try to tackle that today and I'm convinced that the only reason that I haven't resorted to using the paper plates in the cabinet is because occassionally the boyfriend DOES come over, and shame seems to be a motivating factor. Like now, my cousins are coming in from out of town this weekend. Can't let them see it the way that it is.

I don't know what other people's experiences are with this...in terms of figuring out what's behind it. I've been beating my head against this brick wall, as I said, for a while. It's just been in the last few months that I've become absolutely done with it and searching for an answer that fits so that I can just freaking fix it. I'm looking at "collapse" the "demand resistance" the "learned helplessness" now I'm looking at just plain old depression. I tried my hardest to negotiate with myself yesterday to just...do one thing when I got out of the bath, tackle one thing in my apartment. Not happening. I went and laid down instead. Although...thinking about it now, I guess I kind of set myself up for failure, trying to get myself to do something physical like clean straight out of a super hot bath when I'm lethargic and headachey because I stayed in too long.

So, today...try number 3 this week. We'll see how it goes.

[Unconcious_Ghost]

To Spryte & S-C:
One way to really get around the social endurance shopping...which I really like...is having an Amazon Prime account.  2 days free shipping comes with the Prime membership, and you can order just about anything through the membership; I also dig the free movies and other perks.  Works great when you're just too fatigued/tired/disinterested with the collapsing issues.  Takes my mind off things a little with the enormous surfing on the site.  I'm far from being a shopaholic though.  I sure hear ya both with the social interaction fatigue 'energy sapping' it takes.  With my current situation, I've basically been alone/isolated for 10 months straight and have a great tomcat for company.  Unfortunately, the isolation has taken a large bite out of my sanity. So, the collapsing with me is a long, drawn out session.  I'm barely coming out of a 4 day long panic attack which was quite nasty; been sleeping and trying to keep sane.  Glad I found these forum boards...you folks are the only one's I'm trying to interact with a bit.

[keepfighting]

 

Another member for the club here.

It's actually one of the things I feel quite ashamed about. I haven't even let my DH in on it. I try to collapse only when I have alone time so no one is the wiser about how little I can 'take on' these days. Still the old reflex to hide my true state of mind, I guess...

[schrödinger's cat]

I like "social interaction fatigue". It fits.

So, we've got one coping strategy so far: making our "public life" easier. Picking and choosing which social interactions we want, and then maybe finding workarounds for those that are just unnecessarily stressful. Friends yes, shop assistants no. That's a good point.

Pacing ourselves - would that work? Me, I'd have to first find out what precisely stresses me about official situations, and why, and in which quantities. Until I know that, I can't pace myself.

What do you think about assigning some time straight after social interactions where we get to just hang out and drool and have a thousand yard stare? I mean purposely doing it, and planning for it, and trying to slowly find a way that works best and gets us the most relaxed in a short time. It occurred to me today that maybe coming home from a stressful interaction and then planning to straight away launch into - oh, something like doing chores, paying bills, solving problems - that this might make matters worse. If that's true, even an hour spent just fuzzing around on the internet or playing a game might actually end up saving me time. At least that way I have some hope of being re-energized again later.

Also, I could tease my brother with it. He used to tease me relentlessly when we were kids, so I get to catch up now. And he HATES anything that's touchy-feely or psychobabble or hippie. Hates hates hates it. So we'd chat, and then I'd go: "I sense that I must now leave and meditate so I can centre myself and really feel my own essence again." It'd be worth it just for the expression on his face. Hah.

The funny thing is, that actually is what I'll probably have to do: meditate or just sit still so I can calm down and feel my own essence again.

Does anyone do that already? Assign some quiet private time where you just let yourself calm down?

[spryte]

UG - do you do grocery shopping through Amazon? I already buy a ridiculous amount of stuff through Amazon, probably started doing that because I couldn't take the idea of going to multiple stores to "price shop". It's always the grocery shopping that trips me up though. Also, I'm really glad you found us too! (although, I'm relatively new here too)

SC - I haven't quite detangled all of this so I'm not sure that an across the board "fix" is going to be the answer for me. I have noticed a definite "energy drain" with a lot of this stuff, MOST ESPECIALLY social interactions.

You know, for the last year, I was convinced that I had Adrenal Fatigue - which is a whole can of worms in and of itself and I think goes "nicely" with c-ptsd. It makes a whole lot of sense that one of the things we'd struggle with is adrenal glands that are stressed and tired. One of the features of that IS this "collapse" thing, and one of the things that many AF sufferers end up doing to manage it is severe "energy management" tactics.

Like, for instance for me, social engagements are one of the things that I have to be the most careful with. It's one thing to go to the movies with someone, or to hang out watching TV, or DOING something together, but if I'm expected to hang out one on one, just talking? There will come a point where my brain just...shuts down. It's like...I've used up all the fuel in my brain and I just...I've had to seriously tell people...I'm sorry, I have to go home now, my brain has shut down. It gets hard to put together sentences, let alone pay attention to what other people are saying. And I'm almost certain that this doesn't have anything to do with EF's, it's just really a matter of cognitive energy.

I one time went and spent a whole day with some very good friends during a crises that they were going through. It was emotional, and cognitively draining. At one point, I felt myself shutting down and I told my friends that I was going to "unplug" for a little while and mindlessly look at facebook. It worked. I felt a little "refreshed" after like 10 minutes of not being SO socially plugged in one on one. (also had an opportunity to hold a boundary too because it took my one friend a little while to get that I was seriously just...tapping out for a little while and Don't Talk To Me.)

With other stuff, it's different. I did notice that one of my problems was that I was coming home and just...automatically and mindlessly turning the TV on. Once I did that, it was over. I get obsessively stuck in watching series of things, I can't stop. Netflix might have been the worst invention ever for me.

So, I made a deal with myself, that I haven't quite stuck with just yet...to come home, walk the dog, and sit down on the couch and meditate and intentionally DECIDE what I wanted to do with my evening.

My issue is one of inertia. If I come home and launch straight into doing chores, I'm better. I can get things done. If I sit down for even a minute...I'm done. Doesn't matter how motivated I thought I was to do things, it's like all that motivation and energy drain out through my feet and next thing I know I'm curled up on my couch watching TV. That was just to relax, or veg out. I don't know if I'll have the same reaction with meditation.

I think a big part of my problem with all of that is being overwhelmed by stuff. Overwhelmed by my choices about what I could do, what I have to do. Do I practice piano, make jewelry, read a book, clean the kitchen, clean the bathroom, vacuum the couch, clean off the table, make crafty stuff....this list could go on for days and it's somehow like my brain just...seizes, thinking that it needs to Do All The Things.

And, if I have lots of "official" things to do? Errands to run, professional people I have to talk to, paperwork to submit...anything like that...I can rally myself to do it all in one shot...and then I am absolutely done for the day. Or, there at LEAST needs to be a nap in there to "reboot" my brain.

KF - I'm ashamed of it too. I've had a really hard time inviting the boyfriend around when I'm in collapse mode. It's a lot easier to hide from everyone else in my life.

[schrödinger's cat]

I kind of know what you mean, I think. It's similar for me, too. One-on-one talks are just so intense, it's like being in the spotlight for a long time, with no opportunity to just switch off and relax a little. Why? Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Maybe it's a Fawn Response thing? An over-focus on being easy to get along with? I don't even know. It would fit - my mother has always given me the message that I'm difficult. So maybe that's why such talks feel so hard to do?

As you can see, I'm feeling antsy as long as I don't see through a problem. I'm often tempted to skip right to the problem-solving stage. It's better to first let myself really feel the problem first, I'm trying to learn that, but it's surprisingly hard. Fact-finding, then analysis, then solutions, not the other way round.

Sooo, the problem... it's like I'm feeling obliged to present a certain image to the world. Not "encouraged to", or "aiming to", but literally obliged. It's a duty. I must seem competent at all times, I must be cheerful and open, I must help other people with their problems, I must listen attentively. I must never give away anything about myself. That's what I learned, partly by how my FOO treated me, partly by what they modelled.

So anything other than an optimal performance feels stressful. If I tell someone that I'm battling a depression, I later feel they're going to reject me now because I've got problems and am not invincible. If I'm a little slow and serious because I'm tired or something, I'm sure everyone will reject met. If I begin to be bored by a topic of conversation, I feel absolutely trapped and powerless, because how can you change the topic without making the other person very angry at you? If I disagree with what someone's saying, I swallow it and bottle it up, because disagreement needs to be oh so delicately put, or you'll offend the other person and they'll not forgive you for years.

This says more about my FOO than it says about what people are really like. Dh for example is an easygoing guy who prefers a direct and blunt style of conversation. But I still fall back into tip-toeing around his sensibilities. With people in general... I want to be more open and authentic, but how can I be that without opening myself to being triggered? It's like I can be either safe or authentic.

You know, sometimes it seems like half my problems in this life can be solved by either decluttering or being properly angry at my FOO.

[spryte]

Ok, so just focusing on the social aspect of this...yes, that's exactly the problem that I have most of the time.

And, it's interesting the things that we get "taught" about how we should act in public. I'm not even sure if it was my FOO or some other traumatic event in my life which taught me the "rules" about being social...but if I am hypervigilant anywhere, it is in social situations...it's actually one of my greatest gifts and my biggest weaknesses. I am hyper-focused on other people's reactions to me...but that has grown into a gift for really knowing people, and becoming really sensitive to micro-expressions, body language, tone of voice...I am REALLY tuned into people...but at the same time, I am being hyper focused on all of that stuff within me too...the words I use, the way I phrase something, the emotions that I'm showing, it's absolutely exhausting.

And for me, I'm not so sure that it's about specific things that I was taught...Like it was for you, so much as it is just a general..."Be likable! Don't act "weird"! Don't do anything that may cause rejection! Don't show your real self because your real self is awful and people will run away and abandon you!!" kind of thing.

Putting all that attention on all of those things is MENTALLY EXHAUSTING.

So, naturally, those people who I feel the most comfortable hanging out with, are the people I feel most comfortable being myself with because I'm not "entertaining" anyone. There is very little...I don't know "energy" is the best word I've got, expended in being social with them.

That being said...even THOSE people, I am still working on being comfortable being..."moody" or "tired" or "not as engaged". And, in the last few months I've had the disturbing realization that I walk around...all the time...with a (to me) creepy smile on my face. Like. All the time. Even when I'm alone, I realize I'm doing it. It's just..become an automatic part of my social mask I guess. So, I'm trying to be more mindful of that.

I think it's definitely a Fawn response thing. Even without the specifics. "Please don't hurt me! Let me be as likeable as possible so that you won't hurt me! Let me go out of my way to not upset you, or disagree with you, or express my own opinion, so you won't hurt me!"

I'm just now getting to the point where I can SOMETIMES express an opinion in conversation with people without freaking out about it afterwards. That was something that grew along that "process of change" continuum that we talked about.

Dh for example is an easygoing guy who prefers a direct and blunt style of conversation. But I still fall back into tip-toeing around his sensibilities.

There's a phrase that I come back to a lot when it comes to the Fawning/Co-dependent behaviors. "Managing other people's feelings"

We do it a lot, and it's a protection mechanism. "Let me see if I can predict how you are going to feel, so that I can alter my behavior accordingly, and "manage" your reaction to this so that it won't be harmful to you" And that's the thing about a lot of co-dependent behaviors, we convince ourselves that a lot of what we do is for other people..."I don't want to hurt their feelings. I don't want to upset them." When, really it's..."I don't want to put myself in a vulnerable position where them getting upset with me, or about something that I say may result in them lashing out, or rejecting me."

It's like I can be either safe or authentic.

Yes, exactly.

So...that's about some pretty warped filters that we have about how other people are going to react to us, and trust.

And, I'm not sure where other people should start with that. For whatever reason, I became really socially isolated. Call it introversion, call it self-protection, whatever. I find that I just do not have the energy for bull-sh*t non-authentic interactions and if other people can't be authentic with ME, then I have a much harder time being able to trust them enough to be authentic with THEM.

So, the few people that I have surrounded myself with...are people who act just as real as I try to be with them. We're all kind of socially awkward though, and we're all kind of "checking in with each other" and apologizing for acting certain ways, and we just reassure each other, that it's fine.

And still...for as long as we've been together, me and my boyfriend are still building the trust necessary for us to allow the other to see us "at our worst". It's not easy. That fear of rejection and abandonment is HUGE.

[schrödinger's cat]

... if I am hypervigilant anywhere, it is in social situations...that has grown into a gift for really knowing people, and becoming really sensitive to micro-expressions, body language, tone of voice...I am REALLY tuned into people...but at the same time, I am being hyper focused on all of that stuff within me too...the words I use, the way I phrase something, the emotions that I'm showing, it's absolutely exhausting.

That word - hypervigilance - it's interesting that you're using it here. Do you think this could be something like that? Social hypervigilance? It would make sense, wouldn't it? I mean, we all pay extra attention to the very area where we were hurt. And because we were emotionally abused, we're now hypervigilant in social situations. I'm not sure if that's the explanation, but at least it sounds plausible.

And for me, I'm not so sure that it's about specific things that I was taught...Like it was for you, so much as it is just a general..."Be likable! Don't act "weird"! Don't do anything that may cause rejection! Don't show your real self because your real self is awful and people will run away and abandon you!!" kind of thing.

Putting all that attention on all of those things is MENTALLY EXHAUSTING.

Absolutely. It's like putting on a show all the time.

So, naturally, those people who I feel the most comfortable hanging out with, are the people I feel most comfortable being myself with because I'm not "entertaining" anyone. There is very little...I don't know "energy" is the best word I've got, expended in being social with them.

I know what you mean. It's SUCH a relief, finding someone like that, isn't it? Like everyone else is a hard uncomfortable chair with creaky legs, and finally you meet a person who's like a sofa.

That being said...even THOSE people, I am still working on being comfortable being..."moody" or "tired" or "not as engaged".

Same here. Being boring, being not-hard-working, or letting someone know that I'm struggling with a problem I don't yet have any answer for... it feels like letting them see my soft underbelly. Setting myself up to fail.

And, in the last few months I've had the disturbing realization that I walk around...all the time...with a (to me) creepy smile on my face. Like. All the time. Even when I'm alone, I realize I'm doing it. It's just..become an automatic part of my social mask I guess.

I shouldn't find this funny, probably...

I think it's definitely a Fawn response thing. Even without the specifics. "Please don't hurt me! Let me be as likeable as possible so that you won't hurt me! Let me go out of my way to not upset you, or disagree with you, or express my own opinion, so you won't hurt me!"

Yes, it's about presenting as small a target as one can.

"Managing other people's feelings" ... We do it a lot, and it's a protection mechanism.

"Let me see if I can predict how you are going to feel, so that I can alter my behavior accordingly, and "manage" your reaction to this... I don't want to put myself in a vulnerable position where them getting upset with me, or about something that I say may result in them lashing out, or rejecting me."

Ah. Ah ha. Thanks for pointing that out, that's a VERY useful concept to know. I do that all the time. Someone's sad, I listen. Someone's in need of cheering up, I try to be funny. A conversation comes to a grinding halt, I get it going again. I'm always acting like I'm a waitress in the great big café that's life. Or, I used to always act like that.

So...that's about some pretty warped filters that we have about how other people are going to react to us, and trust.

"WHAT?! I told you that I don't really like the brand of herbal tea that you prefer... and... and... and you don't mind?!"

So, to sum it up...
Emotional abuse / bullying / etc -----> social situations are "not safe" -----> simple common sense and a healthy self-preservation instinct make us become hyper-aware of warning signs, hidden dangers, emotional risks etc ------> if repeated enough times and without enough positive experiences to offset that: social hypervigilance sets in. At the same time, we begin to circumvent dangers and manage other people's emotions in order to minimize our risks. Over time, this becomes second nature. We're not even aware that we're doing it, and that it takes an effort. For that reason, we're often drastically drained by social situations that require a great deal of circumnavigation and micro-management.
The great unifying theory of spryte's and cat's social woes. I couldn't resiiist. Sorry.

[spryte]

Lol, yes! Very succinct!

And it's ok that you found that funny. I joke about it to my boyfriend now. It reminds me of a scene in "Warm Bodies" I don't know if you've seen it. A zombie who's trying to act human and his inner monologue is going, "Don't be creepy. Don't be creepy!" I kind of feel like I"m doing that all the time. "Pretend to be normal! Pretend to be normal!"

Hyper vigilance was the only word that sounded right to me to describe that. Because, what it feels like is that when it comes to interpersonal relationships, my brain goes into super computer mode in order to analyze every single nuance of the interaction. It was a real head slap kind of moment when I realized how MUCH I do that, and connected it to how tired social interactions make me.

But, like I said, it's one of the few things that I've actually been able to turn around and see as a "gift" from my childhood. It really helps me help other people because often I can tell how they're feeling even before they can...as long as I don't try to "manage" those feelings, or try to point out something that someone else really isn't comfortable with me seeing. Which has happened. Apparently, not every one likes it when you peer into their soul. Lol.

And that analyzing started really really young

it's about presenting as small a target as one can.

Indeed.

So, the other day, I was thinking about the fact that I want to get some tattoos, and I have a facial piercing, and I was wondering what an appropriate amount of time would be to be at my new job before opening that can of worms...and I had this really uncomfortable memory of how often I used to have to "analyze" my mothers moods before I approached her about anything. 

[schrödinger's cat]

Was your mother as unpredictable as mine was?

Mine had a really short temper, especially when I was a teenager (because at that time her heatlh began to break down), and she has this habit where, if she's annoyed or feels overwhelmed or like she's losing control of a situation, she simply pulls backs into Medium Chill instead of working through it together with the other person. You never knew when something as simple as spilling a glass of milk might trigger a rant. On top of that, she treated me the same way she treated those of her younger sisters whom she regards as "difficult" and "demanding". Just normal, ordinary teenage moodiness might trigger that, and she'd withdraw or distance herself from me.

So there was no simple, obvious way of navigating social situations in my FOO. Hence the hypervigilance? Hmmm.

[spryte]

Unpredictable yes. I don't have enough clear memories to be able to really break it down the way that you are able to, but there was hitting and lots and lots of screaming rages with awful things said which I won't repeat here. She'd come home from work and take a nap. I'd tiptoe around the house so as to not wake her up. If she was asleep, she couldn't be screaming. Any little thing could set her off. The "big blow out" that happened that resulted in me moving to another state to live with my father the next day was over under done chicken nuggets that I'd cooked for dinner. (I was 15). If I wanted to do something, like go to a friend's house, I'd have to predict when she was in the best mood and become nearly invisible so as to not set her off, until it was time to ask - and then again until it was time to go so as to not make her angry so she'd change her mind about me going.

She was always extra super nice and happy when she had a boyfriend though. Those were sort of peaceful times...until, inevitability things didn't work out and she was back to being Momster again....probably worse than before.

[schrödinger's cat]

No wonder you're hypervigilant. Holy sh*t. I read somewhere (years ago) that several "symptoms of trauma" start out as normal, healthy and common-sense reactions to a highly abnormal situation. Reading stories like this one really rams the point home. Are you safe from her now?

[spryte]

Learning about these responses to trauma, it's been really interesting to me in that very detached....hmmm yes, fascinating! (said in my best Sherlock Holmes accent) kind of way. In my brain, it seems very formula like. There aren't a huge range of responses to these abuses and those four F's seem to sum them up nicely. If you do X to a child over and over, Y,Z, A or B is likely to be the response. It's really no surprise that I became a Fawn/Freezer.

Yes. I'm completely NC. She tries to contact me every now and then. I used to respond, that never ended well, so now my rule with her is "complete non-engagement".

[Butterfly]

So much of this thread hits home for me. Thanks for the detailed direction as always from the team! excellent summation of the situation.

Spilled milk - to this day the phrase don't cry over spilled milk sends me reeling. How else would one respond to beatings because I once again flinched at the wrong time too close to my milk, thereby spilling it and provoked the beating I tried to avert by flinching. Unpredictable. Seriously unpredictable. To this day I have no idea which version of mum might show up or what she might morph into, she's gone from having a good time and laughing to a full on PA episode for no obvious reason.

Yes, I pick and choose my social interaction because it's draining and plan for unwind time by reading at the beginning and end of my day. Amazon shopper! Yes. For food, yes. Netflix, yes - see my other post on curling up with a blanket and self soothing an EF. Shopping in general huge issue, the crowds, navigating, so when I run out of food I go early when the store opens and no one there yet with nothing but my wallet and car key in my pocket so I'm free of clunky purse. List arranged in store aisle order so I can get in and out as quickly and efficiently as possible.