Emotional Abuse by my FOO

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woodsgnome

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Re: Emotional Abuse by my FOO
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2015, 10:41:35 PM »
Quote Southbound (referencing "choosing our past"):

"Thing is, we were in it before we knew it, weren't we? Books (and people) tell me my true self is a thing of wonder, and when I get to that I'll know it myself. Unfortunately it isn't a case of get back to it. I have no 'true' or unadapted self to return to. I literally don't know how else to be."

I echo that, Southbound :thumbup:. I'm coming off a severe flashback that's knocked me for a loop the last couple days, but your well-put observation got me thinking. Thank you!

Maybe it's a good thing not to "get back"? Especially if there really is no place to get back to, as you say. I'd love to have a "good" time to go back to. I don't. And I hate that. I grieve it and cry about it.

But I also recall what another poster said here once; something to the effect that if we really are suffering from "arrested development" as a result of this  cptsd crud, perhaps we really don't have a second childhood, so we just make this our first. I flipped a cartwheel when I read that comment.

Sure, it doesn't change anything past. Does nothing to cure any of its hurt. Perhaps it's a fiction--and maybe that's another way to take it, too. It's in the cover of an old closed book and it's now just a musty forgotten script; deserves to collect dust. Meanwhile we're writing the new one, and the second childhood is in that sense the first.

Geez, that sounds almost like those done-over cliches about finding the "true self"  :blahblahblah: you referred to, but maybe that doesn't matter, either. Maybe all the beliefs can be pitched, as we craft the new ones here in our "new" childhood. Time to explore and celebrate/play with our fresh discoveries.

My preference is for no beliefs, period, as they failed me the first time I read the book. No dogma to tie me down, or certainty that this is a better way, even. As I write the new pages, it feels better than those in the old book; so I'll keep this one open. When I experience setbacks, they'll hurt as bad as ever if not worse, but now I have some tools to keep creating the new story, too. Just travelin' along, I guess.

« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 11:12:00 PM by woodsgnome »

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woodsgnome

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Re: Emotional Abuse by my FOO
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2015, 11:46:59 PM »
So I've one final rant, brought on by what both DU and Southbound said referencing that crock of "you chose your parents"...you know where it goes after that.

I had a friend who was sooooo curious when she detected that I was very reluctant and/or plain uncomfortable discussing anything touching on childhood. And then it happened, she started in on "you know, you chose your path..."

I.........DON'T...........CARE........... :pissed: :pissed: :pissed:

I don't care if I chose any of it 1,001 times over. Don't care if she did...don't care if you did. It means nothing.

Rant over--I could never fully express how angry that makes me, the throw it back on the poor victim mental garbage; make 'em feel better to know they chose it all...last call: WHAT UTTER ROT!

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Off the rant, thanks again Southbound, until I saw your post I was still reeling from that flashback I referred to. I didn't want to see any of this, didn't want to read about acceptance, understanding, out of the storm, any of it. But I wandered over here, your words resonated, and somehow I can feel again. You fully deserve this:

                            :bighug:

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Dutch Uncle

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Re: Emotional Abuse by my FOO
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2015, 07:04:49 AM »
So I've one final rant, brought on by what both DU and Southbound said referencing that crock of "you chose your parents"...you know where it goes after that.

I had a friend who was sooooo curious when she detected that I was very reluctant and/or plain uncomfortable discussing anything touching on childhood. And then it happened, she started in on "you know, you chose your path..."

I.........DON'T...........CARE........... :pissed: :pissed: :pissed:

I don't care if I chose any of it 1,001 times over. Don't care if she did...don't care if you did. It means nothing.

Rant over--I could never fully express how angry that makes me, the throw it back on the poor victim mental garbage; make 'em feel better to know they chose it all...last call: WHAT UTTER ROT!

Well said.

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arpy1

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Re: Emotional Abuse by my FOO
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2015, 07:34:16 PM »
Woodsgnome i have been thinking of u over the last few days becos you were in such  pain. i am glad you are back.
i want you to know that becos of something you posted a while back in a different thread, i had a bit of a light bulb moment this week and it has moved me a bit further on the path. so really i want to say thank you. i put a poem in the poem section today that came out of it, that kind of sums up what i saw. it's the first time in my life i have felt able to even contemplate looking back at some very terrifying, very deep hurt. but maybe out of this i will be able to find a Self. thank you so much for your wisdom.

southbound  i remember a year ago sitting in my tiny lounge in my tiny flat wailing with gutwrenching grief at all i had lost. and like you i have had to learn to take joy in little things like:
the fact that my room faces south so i get lots of light ( i neeeeed light); my flower pots with bright bright red geraniums on the patio, my pair of resident wrens, a good red wine, a comforting hot shower, nice colouring pencils and a sketch pad to play with, my mum's little vase, you know, things i wouldn't have even noticed much before. but they kept me sane, (even if can't quite be sane enuf to wash the pots every day or hoover the carpet as often as before....)

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woodsgnome

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Re: Emotional Abuse by my FOO
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2015, 09:07:14 PM »
Quote...Arpy1 to woodsgnome:

"becos of something you posted a while back in a different thread, i had a bit of a light bulb moment this week and it has moved me a bit further on the path."

 Thanks, arpy1...I always have songs floating through my head, and your post reminded me of one--it's over at the "music" section...I hope it speaks to what you're going through.  :hug:

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arpy1

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Re: Emotional Abuse by my FOO
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2015, 09:11:40 PM »
thank you :hug:

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david r

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Re: Emotional Abuse by my FOO
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2015, 07:53:22 AM »
I'm not real sure of myself at present but I like the language you guys use especially in some of the responses. just to contribute a little my mother wasn't much of an academic but she use to say things like" jealousy a curse but pregnancy is worse " ummm what was another favorite " I brought you into this world I will take you out of it " things like that were really corrosive to my emotional well being and I even recall drawing obsessive love hearts with the intials of the girl I liked at school in the heart , my decrepid mother joined in momentarily with my brothers and sister to tease me , at other times she would be distraught and blubber that she loved us kids but it looked like she was about to commit suicide , It boded well with her saying I'm sick of you bloody kids , I have come to learn that she is in denial about the fact she has mental healthy issues herself. she recently had a stroke an I was blamed for the deterioration in her health , I felt a pang of pity that one feels when an animal needs to be put down and I don't even feel he slightest bit of guilt about that. as far as I'm concerned she provided me with food an shelter but aprt from that it was just rubbish
 
I do know the helplessness and despair one feels when they feel like their unsalvageable as the primary caregiver is more toxic an basically only has that too pass on. I also so hate it when people say that you hae to forgive the perpertrator, I find that I hae to protect myself by fully accepting the toxicity of the person before I can encounter them again or those of a similar disposition and its also confusing because if you smell something bad you pyshically are repulsed with emoinal abuse I have come to realize that my mind switches off or I go into a self protected aversion, I don't shut down and go numb like I use to , its improving , sorry to hear about your distorted interactions with your caregiver dutchy.

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Dutch Uncle

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Re: Emotional Abuse by my FOO
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2015, 08:22:26 AM »
I'm not real sure of myself at present but I like the language you guys use especially in some of the responses. just to contribute a little my mother wasn't much of an academic but she use to say things like" jealousy a curse but pregnancy is worse " ummm what was another favorite " I brought you into this world I will take you out of it " things like that were really corrosive to my emotional well being
Ughh…  :sadno:
What harsh and devaluating remarks. Disgusting.  :thumbdown:
 
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I also so hate it when people say that you hae to forgive the perpertrator, I find that I hae to protect myself by fully accepting the toxicity of the person before I can encounter them again or those of a similar disposition
Well said.  :thumbup:
It does take quite an effort, no?

Since I see you are new to the board I want to say  :wave: and welcome, david r !

Thanks for sharing and your kind words for me.
 :hug:

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stillhere

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Re: Emotional Abuse by my FOO
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2015, 10:33:00 PM »
David, ditto what Dutch Uncle and Southbound have said.

For me, this forum offers the only place I've known where I can tell my story without cringing as I wait for some invalidating remark.  "Surely it can't have been that bad" or "Maybe it will get better if you try a little harder" or (maybe worst) "you should work hard to let it go."

To have a few people, however scattered across the globe, who "get it" has truly helped.  I wish the same for you.


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Dutch Uncle

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Emotional Abuse by my FOO: Divorce
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2015, 07:35:23 AM »
Divorce. A son's perspective.
***possible triggers***


My parents had a rotten marriage.
One of my childhood memories is that I see myself* sitting on the floor, upstairs, mom being in the bathroom putting on make-up and me saying: "you and dad are going to divorce, aren't you."
I was in  primary school, probably around the age of ten. Twelve, max.
( *: Funny that. Is that already an early childhood dissociation? Because I do remember it (now, and already for decades) as an 'out of body experience'. )

My mom consoled me that this was not the case.
In hindsight (very long hindsight) she gaslighted me. I'd now say. They did divorce, 25 years later, 15 years ago.

Another childhood memory: First day at secondary school: I was not there. Had to go with mom and dad, sis(17) and bro(16) to Family Counseling, first appointment.
I was given an excuse, by mom, why I wasn't there the first day. All the other kids had their second day, not me. "I had to go to the dentist", I said. "Yeah, right!  ??? ", I imagined the others thinking, meeting my classmates for the first time. Probably they did.

Family counseling was abandoned, before it had really started. The 'problem' was between mom and dad, there were no family dynamics identified, in the few sessions we did. So I was told. I do not have much recollection of those sessions. It went all over my head I guess, a 12 year old, a child.

A tense FOO, a tense childhood.
Never realized it. I took in what was offered I guess. That's the way it was, this was normal. Well, the Norm at least. My Norm, Our Norm, the FOO's Norm.
My parents Norm.

And so it went on. Forever.
Until mom phoned me she needed to see me, and when later a car drove into a parking space just outside my window, an unfamiliar car, I knew: "that's mom, in a car that's not 'theirs', she's divorcing."
And I was right. (honesty demands to say I'm not sure if I had that realization even before she got out of the car, or only after. It might well have been both, I guess, with the confirmation following her getting out of this alien car)

When she told me, sitting on my couch with me next to her, that she had left dad and now stayed in their caravan, I felt relief. Deliverance. Validation. I had been 'right' all along. "Theirs was not a marriage!". Said the bachelor.
I couldn't utter those words, express my joy. For my mom was sad, and she made it clear that no decision had been reached on future developments. Yes, she had left. But had not broken off her marriage. They would continue to "work on it".
That lasted two and a half years. We kids were kept out of it.The subject was taboo.
Divorce papers had been signed at some point.
Didn't change much. They continued to attend therapy and counseling, together (possibly also individually) after that. That was shared. Somehow that was not taboo.
Their 'togetherness' was emphasized, celebrated, held in the highest esteem. Or so they pretended. I never bought it. Their 'split' was obfuscated by taboo.
But their fake connectiveness was all that was ever on offer.

Not their anger, not their rage, not their disappointment, not their betrayal they must have felt (well, for my dad at the very least). Not their grief.
It was still all fine and dandy in some unfathomable way.
Gaslighting, I guess.

To this day they uphold this charade.
When i asked my dad this year, when he referred to 'her' as 'your mom' as he consistently does, and I had come to understand the absurdity of it, and asked him: "What is she to you, dad?", he fell silent.
After I had let this silence linger a while longer I pressed on. "what is she to you dad? I know she's my mom, but what is she to you? Is she your friend, an acquaintance , your wife still or your ex?"
Silence
"She has turned you down twice. First with the divorce, and then again when you asked her to re-marry her, to which she consented, only to renegade on it, again. What is she for you?"
"Argghhh, I don't want to talk about it, but "ex" is such a horrible word, I can't stand it!"

Mom plays similar tricks. Keeps babbling on about how they still meet and are able to 'square things from their marriage and divorce'. WTF?
At the same time she expresses how good it is she has divorced.
Well, what's the eternal 'talk about it' good for then?

I know now. It's the eternal need for Drama.
It's too good to have a 'pass' on that one.
The divorce is a source for eternal dramatic supply.

I must say, I respect my father more for his consistent obliviousness for the facts than I do for my mother's consistent ignorance of following through on her decision.
But it's a close call, and they both are at the bottom of the League by any measure.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 09:35:54 AM by Dutch Uncle »

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Dutch Uncle

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Re: Emotional Abuse by my FOO: Divorce
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2015, 01:46:01 AM »
I love the Seinfield quote. That's me.

Dutch, your parents sound like a narcissistic mother and what's known as an enabling father:
Yes, I'm slowly, and painfully, getting aware of that fact. Ouch.

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Messing up your schooling because they couldn't manage their own relationship is horrible. You (and your older siblings?) were sacrificed for their counselling, then they abandoned that too. Definition of irresponsible parenting. And it took them 25 years even to begin to clean up the mess, as well as sabotaging the sabotage? Wow.
Thanks. And yes, my older siblings have been sacrificed as well.

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Yes. She had (and has?) him well under control, didn't she? I suspect both of them believe the marriage breakdown was all his fault. I get the impression he'd be back with her like a shot, if only she'd let him. That means she's still controlling him.
Oh yes. And his ex loves it. She just gives it enough rope so she can hang him time and again. It's pitiful, really. By both of them.

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Just as long as neither of them is controlling you now. :hug:
I'm fighting my way out.