All hoovers after going NC with DramaSis and DramaMama. Will it ever end?

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Dutch Uncle

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Re: A hoover by uHPDsis I went NC with. Now what?
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2015, 11:29:05 AM »
Quick update. (And everything is still cool at the moment).

Phone rings. My female parent.
I know the party is this weekend.
No doubt the female parent wants to stick her nose in. In what exactly I don't know, of course, and that's just how I want it.

I've let the phone ring, will probably not listen to the answering machine at all, though may do it AFTER the party, so I can laugh my butt of with relief of the poo I have refused to step in.

Wind is picking up folks! May rise to gale force. But I have a solid brick house. I may need to crawl into a safe corner, away from possible shattering windows. That's OK. Better safe than sorry. I'll bring my laptop with me. WiFi works fine there.  ;D

And then there were two.
:witch: :witch:
« Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 11:39:51 AM by Dutch Uncle »

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arpy1

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Re: A hoover by uHPDsis I went NC with. Now what?
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2015, 12:15:57 PM »
well done, Dutch Uncle, for refusing to step in it.  yes, the storm may be brewing (the one thing crazy-makers can't bear is no response!! in my experience they always try kicking off with their strategies of choice.... :pissed: ... Mr/Ms Nice, Mr/Ms Nasty, Mr/Ms Needy, Mr/Ms Sick, Mr/Ms Hurt..........  :blahblahblah: )

hope you have some goodies stashed in that safe corner, to keep you going while you wait it out! :bigwink:

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Dutch Uncle

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Re: A hoover by uHPDsis I went NC with. Now what?
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2015, 12:57:54 PM »
Obviously this is stirring the emotional pot. So I'm reaffirming myself, in the privacy of my own house, and my own support-group, e.g. you all.

What I should tell my female parent (which I won't, I'm going to stay put in LC, and this is not a moment to reply) is:
"No, [name], I don't have to tell you if i go or not to a party. Period."
And that if she would pry for the why, which she would certainly do, is to say "I don't have to tell you if I go to a party or not. Period. The issue of why is therefore not an issue to begin with."
Bugger off! Drama queen! Go play with the other drama queen. Have fun! (while thinking: Which you won't, and you know it, but that's just what you crave! win-win. You just can't loose out on this one!)

:dramaqueen:  :dramaqueen: 

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arpy1

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Re: A hoover by uHPDsis I went NC with. Now what?
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2015, 05:18:25 PM »
you go for it D/U, kudos to you for standing your ground! :applause: :applause:

(p.s., i know it's hard, actually.  :blink:   but we're right with you,   :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:   cheering you on   :yourock:.)

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Dutch Uncle

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Re: A hoover by uHPDsis I went NC with. Now what?
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2015, 11:06:43 AM »
So today I finally listened to the voicemail my mother had left me.
I felt up to it.

It turned out to be pretty easy. She was visiting near where I live, and wanted to drop by on the way back home. But since I didn't answer the phone she said "Never mind, see you next time."
Her mood was pretty cheerful, by he sound of it.

So my response to it is, pretty immediately afterwards:
"Great, she sounds cheerful, so I'm going to take it as cheerful. No worries. Well handled, great tactic this 'No reply'/LC. What a great way to avoid having to say "No.", which I find difficult to do (with good reason ;) ). What a happy ending, no Drama."

So, I think I can put the final nail in the coffin of female sibling's birthday-party, and bury it in an unmarked grave. I have no intention to visit it, nor to dig it up.


Thank you all for your support, it's been a great help.
I'll lock this thread, and I'm sure we'll meet elsewhere.
This is over and done with.

 :spooked:

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Dutch Uncle

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I: Flying Monkeys galore: My brother
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2015, 12:43:13 PM »
Well, I unlocked the thread since this prediction has come true:
The downer is she'll try again.

The upper is you know yourself better, your strength of spirit and where you need to be.

 :applause:     :applause:    :applause:
and rather than starting a new thread, it seems better to continue this.

I posted this the other day in another thread, but since there are now more developments, rather than hijacking that thread I'll post my contribution here, again.
I trust this is not a breach of site policy.



This X-mas will mark 1 year of NC with my 'sister' and LC (bordering on NC) with my 'mom'.
Relations with my brother and dad are also strained at the moment as I have started to take a lot less crap than I used to.

I addressed (via mail) a pressing issue with my brother, to which he replied AND inserted the totally unrelated business with my 'sis' and 'mom'.
He told me I was "making things very difficult for all family-members."
He is aware (since I told him) that I'm NC with 'sis' because she (emotionally) blackmailed me. (I left out the adjective "emotionally" in order to make the Blackmail stand out more clear.) And I had told him what the blackmail was. This was 10 months ago, when I realized my (by then) two months NC would be of an indefinite nature, and my dad and brother needed to know I would be NC with 'sis'.

I was furious with bro that he said I was making things difficult.
And I was furious for dragging this issue into the issue at hand between him and me.
"Great deflection effort bro!", I thought sarcastically.

In my answer to him I dropped the issue with him altogether, and focussed on his deflection, to end it (hopefully) once and for all: I will not have him being my 'sister's' "Flying Monkey". (I didn't tell him that, he won't know what I'll be talking about: he's completely FOGged and enmeshed.)

So I told him in no uncertain terms: "I am not the one MAKING things very difficult 'for all family-members' when I refuse to have any contact with someone who knowingly, willingly, premeditatedly and persistently blackmails me.
I will not have you foist that on me/ have you rub that on me.
I must make that perfectly clear to you."
He had asked me to come over to his place (which I don't want to, for reasons I will not delve into here and now*) and so I told him that I will not visit him now and not before the family X-mas (& 'mom's' birthday) gathering' he and sis and mom (no dad: divorced) will attend, with me being absent for the first time in over 20 years, for reasons largely unrelated to 'sis'.
(This is an event he has not attended for 15 years at least, since he was an ex-pat. Which has always been fine with me: his decision and I have always been OK with it. Why wouldn't I? It never even crossed my mind to make any fuzz about that, ever.
I didn't write any of this to him either.
)

In his reply to that he cowardly backtracked (saying he hadn't want to "suggest" I was "making it difficult"... Damned right he wasn't "suggesting" it: He was bloody stating it as a FACT ("I find that…" was the phrase he used)) and out came what apparently has been going on behind my back:
'Sis' is working him over, didn't get what she wanted what she blackmailed me for (AND she actually has executed her blackmail threat when I didn't budge!) and now she's trying to get it via recruiting him. So the "Flying Monkey" suspicion has been validated.
Off-course: how could it not?


I'm keeping my peace at the moment (easier said than done  ;) ) and simply have kept my mouth shut since. I haven't replied, in accordance with my previous stated "I will not see you before X-mas", even though he made a poor effort to reel me in by writing: "I hope we can still see each other before X-mas, but if not (WTF, "if" not?) I wish you a happy X-mas :blahblahblah: :blahblahblah: :blahblahblah: ."

I feel bloody good about it all, but must admit I'm pretty tense, and typing this up let's me relive all this tension.
Oh well, it takes an effort, so what.  ;D

[The bolded parts relate directly to 'sis's' involvement in this.]

edit: changed the title only
the story continues below. It's just a different Monkey that warrants it's own post.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 10:22:25 AM by Dutch Uncle »

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Dutch Uncle

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II: Flying Monkeys galore: TherapistMom
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2015, 01:14:43 PM »
Last Friday I got a phone call from 'mom'. I picked up the phone, as I knew this would be X-mas/birthday related, and wanted (and still want) it out of my system. For this specific call I decided that the best way to do that was to face it head on and deal with it now.

It was a quite horrible phone call, but I stood my ground.
It was short, since I cut her short.
The highlight was that she wanted to give me a present, she was in full hoover-mode, and had put up a very meek voice. :dramaqueen:
"I want to give you something, and you can say "yes" or "no" to it."
["Really mom?", I thought, "how very generous of you. You probably feel you deserve a medal now and a big bouquet of roses for this token of the goodness of your heart: you allow your 50 year old son to say "Yes" or "No". Where's the crew of the national newsreel, you must wonder. What keeps them waiting!"]
I kept my mouth shut. (Medium chill and all that)
"I know a man in your city…" "NO."
"by the name of X …" "NO."
"who can read your horoscope…" "no No NO NO NO!" I repeated until I didn't hear any voice on the other side of the line anymore.

Some 'bickering' ensued where she tried to sound meek and understanding (LOL) and me spelling out to her she was pulling my leg by saying I could say 'yes or no' but when I actually said "NO" she simply continued on.
Fauxpologies ensued (what else  :pissed: )
Which I did sort of accept, save for I insisted she should STOP (with this crap! But that I didn't say that out loud. No need to. Medium Chill and all. I think, LOL.)
More meek compliance followed. :dramaqueen:
"Good." and I told her I was going to hang up. Which I did.


Wait for it, this isn't done yet.
Just now I received a letter from "The Ox" a.k.a. 'dad'.
The guy that my 'mom' told: "I want a divorce, bye" 15 years ago, but is still her lapdog. (When she lets him, obviously. She kicks him as easily (well, more easily most probably) when she feels like it.)
This letter I have left unopened, with a note on it: DO NOT OPEN until after the 'X-mas/birthday event'.
Good grief. Now I have The Ox as a Flying Monkey for 'mom' as well.

edit: This letter sitting on my (virtual) desk was bothering me, so I opened it after all. It was holding me back.
He was not being a Flying Monkey. Well, not in a discernible way. I still smell something fishy, but i may well be I'm not smelling him.  ;D
Still, it was a rather poor letter, but at least it was all about him, and not about 'mom'.
The fact it was all about him actually makes it a poor letter, and a hoover of sorts, but that's the man I know him to be.
Low expectations: confirmed.
Drama fears: unwarranted.
'Verdict': positive.
LOL. Good grief.


Do y'all think this may contribute to having cPTSD?   :rofl:
Well, I'm kicking it off.
With a bit of luck I'll look back at this X-mas as the best ever.

At the moment I feel like  :pissed: , and I will revel in it.  ;D

second edit: song for 'mom' and her "cosmic debris" that supposedly would reel me back in:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp6LT2MdaPI

Third edit: title only.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 10:23:23 AM by Dutch Uncle »

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Dutch Uncle

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III: Flying Monkeys galore: The Wicked Witch herself.
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2015, 01:30:55 PM »
The last part of this triple-post:

In the Opening Post of this thread I referred to the "The Blackmail" by 'sis', and all this crap is related to it.
Only a few days ago I realized that 'sis' has actually carried out her Blackmail threats. Until now I had thought that by ignoring the Blackmail I had thwarted it: I was not going to let her spoil my birthday-party-with-mom (in which I succeeded) and by doing so had brushed off her actions that day (and the scheming that must have taken many days of preparation before the actual date): she couldn't have spoiled (to some extend) both mine and 'mom's' 80th-year-birthday.
I had completely viewed her spoiling behavior as something separate:blink:
Which I so desperately wanted and needed: her not succeeding, and me being 'above it all'.

Only NOW, a full year later, I see she actually had 'made good' on her promise blackmail !
What I have until now viewed as mere 'more annoying and stupid' behavior that day has in fact been the execution of her premeditated threat.
Good grief.

Wow, the power of denial Chaos Manufacture.

edit: Title only.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 10:24:06 AM by Dutch Uncle »

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Dutch Uncle

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Flying Monkeys, part IV. Her eldest son.
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2016, 04:38:23 PM »
I suspect her 26 year old son has now been recruited.
'sis' -----> :witch:Or is it?:  >:D

Out of the blue he suggests we 'could have a beer', somewhere halfway between our places of residence, "as I will be meeting a friend there for [mutual activity with said friend]".

WTF?

Not a "Hi uncle, let's have a beer!" :cheers: , no, an elaborate "by 'chance' I'm somewhere halfway, that's perhaps a good moment to meet halfway."
This has terrible cesspool smell to it.  :doh:
Nephew's reluctance to meet me strait up, but having to come up with an 'excuse', sounds to me as a huge Red Flag. Not only to me, but a clear signal Nephew views this 'meet' as such as well. The kid's all right.  :applause:
I hope I have given him the 'easy way out' by replying: "No, can't do." A bit blunt, but at least something he can 'report back' with.  ;)
"Sorry mom, I tried, but all he said was "No, can't do." He doesn't want to, mom. I did my best."

update: "Alas" he has replied.  :thumbup:

edit: Title only.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 10:25:18 AM by Dutch Uncle »

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Kizzie

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Re: A hoover by uHPDsis I went NC with. She can't stop.
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2016, 08:21:30 PM »
Damn Flying Monkeys!   :hug:

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Dutch Uncle

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Flying Monkeys, part IV (reprise). Her eldest son.
« Reply #40 on: February 01, 2016, 01:45:32 PM »
Now he wants to try again in two weeks. Same deal. He will have this event with his friend, halfway, if we can have a beer there.  :doh:

"No, neither."
This is getting preposterous.
The last time he contacted me was when he was 15.

edit: Title only.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 10:28:42 AM by Dutch Uncle »

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Dutch Uncle

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Re: A hoover by uHPDsis I went NC with. She can't stop.
« Reply #41 on: February 01, 2016, 07:10:54 PM »
The way things work, the way memories enter my 'now'.
Did I already profess my love for Nietzsche's quote “Deeds need time, even after they are done, in order to be seen or heard.” ?
Yes I did. Yet the appreciation of it keeps coming back. Keeps being reinforced.

This nephew (and his brother), when did I last see him at my (s)mother's birthday?
When she turned 65. So he was 11, and I was around 35. Well, I have seen him at DramaMom's birthday once in between… Twice even? Possibly. But that really has been about it.

So 'sis' had organized for us (=She, both her children, me and the 65-year-old Therapist) to go to a X-mas-Circus. Fine. Great. We had a good time. I even got to 'Pull an Elephant'. With a lot of other people from the crowd after we were 'challenged' to do so by the 'director'.
I stepped up. Is this a male thing? I don't know. There were only a bunch of guys in the end though.
Sure, I confess: I wanted to impress. Yet, being 'impressive' meant: I wanted this for 'being part of the party'. Why would I stay seated when such a challenge was presented? When 'audience participation' was part of the game, the show? A challenge that clearly was construed for the entertainment of all? Yes, I wanted to impress: Dutch Uncle will step on the Stage. As an obvious Stooge. Surely nobody in my FOO, nor in the overall audience, nor in the bunch-of-guys entering The Ring was expecting we could actually pull this Beast around, now would we/they?
No.
We would be pulled a fast one. And everybody knew it. Including us. Never mind.

We pulled as Mad Men, and then the Elephant let go, so we all fell on our backs. :rofl: <--- that's the audience  ;D . I limped off... :bawl: 
;)

When we arrived at the home of 'mom' after the Circus, Divorced Dad was waiting there. Shining Brightly.
I'll never forget the moment.
"WTF is he doing here?", I wondered.
He was happy as a clown.
Yet had missed all of the circus.
An encore I could have done without. "Bye bye, Pierrot, WTF are you doing here?"

I don't remember much of what happened after. I guess I just fully dissociated. And left. At some point.

edit: after reading this I can't really tell what the connection is.  :stars:
I guess since my 15-year old and 11-year old nephew are more or less 'the same', history wise, and I wonder why he suddenly he is showing up. *cough* Independently. *cough*
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose: Enmeshment. Proxy recruitment. Drama-triangles. Codependency.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2016, 07:36:15 PM by Dutch Uncle »

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Dutch Uncle

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Re: A hoover by uHPDsis I went NC with. She can't stop.
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2016, 07:44:41 AM »
This morning I woke with a very calm feeling about 'not having (contact with) a sister'. Hard to put in words, but I guess it's best described as not having the urge any more to JADE in one form or another to anybody that I don't see her.
I could picture myself in a conversation where somebody would ask: "Do you have a sister?" and I would answer: "Yes, but we have no contact." with no emotional 'energy' attached. No sadness, no anger, no longing… Nothing really.
Well, peace I guess. Relaxation.

Perhaps this is one of the famed (and hoped for) paradigm-shifts. I bet it's one more step along the way of (the 5 stages of) mourning.
It feels pretty good.

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Dutch Uncle

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Re: I: Flying Monkeys galore: My brother.
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2016, 11:16:07 AM »
I addressed (via mail) a pressing issue with my brother, to which he replied AND inserted the totally unrelated business with my 'sis' and 'mom'.
He told me I was "making things very difficult for all family-members."

I was furious with bro that he said I was making things difficult.
And I was furious for dragging this issue into the issue at hand between him and me.
"Great deflection effort bro!", I thought sarcastically.

Yesterday I had a 'meet' with bro. (The same from the "History repeats itself" thread. I have just one.)
For days before I had EF's on a whole range of FOO issues, but kept reminding myself to be MC and Grey Rock with him. It has been a full year since I last saw him, so I guess I'm LC with him as well.  :yes:

I had kept the 'meet' short, two hours, at a 'Grand Cafe' near the railway station in my city.

It went well, we discussed all kinds of stuff (economy, politics, world affairs, last weeks news, etc.) but NOT 'sis', dramaMama or his wife.  :thumbup:
I felt obliged to inquire about the kids: "How are the kids doing?", was all I asked. Somewhat to my surprise he was very MC about them. Clearly not a subject he wanted to get into. I didn't press on.  ;D
Right on the dot after two hours he wanted to go!  :thumbup:

I hope we can keep our contact like this. LC, and when we meet: MC.
Bye bro  :wave: , I hope it'll stay this way, and you'll never again be the Flying Monkey.
I think I handled the situation back then very well, as I have made it very clear then I was not going to put up with his Flying Monkey crap. So he didn't bother this time.

Yay me.  ;D  :groovey:

edit: Title only.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 10:27:38 AM by Dutch Uncle »

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Dutch Uncle

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Flying Monkeys galore, part V: Enabler dad.
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2016, 09:53:45 AM »
And the saga continues.

Though I am in doubt if this post should not be a continuation of the "Progress? I guess so. I vented my anger." thread. But that's what you get when you come from/are part of an enmeshed family.
Short version at the end of this 'novella'.  ;D

Friday I went to visit my dad on his birthday. Traditionally we would celebrate on a weekend day with DramaSis, her two sons (plus GF's at times), SiL (about half of the time) and dad's brother (who passed away two years ago) and his wife, my aunt.
Last year I didn't go and went to visit dad on his actual birthday as well.
While my NC with DramaSis certainly is not insignificant in deciding to go there or not, I told/asked my dad, truthfully, if I could come on the day itself as dad has voiced numerous times over the past years he prefers 1-on-1 contact, in general (f.e. with friends as well). He doesn't like 'groups'. (I think this ties in well with my 'Amateur Diagnosis' he is Asperger's, but that's besides the point here)

He agreed with ease, somewhat to my surprise, but hey: success.  :thumbup:

So I went over, we talked, I was MC, had read up on my Asperger's notes again so I would not trigger him and I would not get triggered by him, all was fine and we would start cooking diner together when dad asked at what time I would want to go home again.
"8- or 9-ish. After the dishes are done and we have had a coffee together." I answered.
Dad insisted he'd drive me to the railway station, which is odd since the last couple of years I walk there. The old man (80+) isn't that good a driver and doesn't drive that much as he himself is not very confident anymore either.

Then a small bomb exploded. Remarkably, it was more a small firecracker in my experience after all.
It proved to be a ploy of sorts: He could only drive me to the station after my DramaSis had arrived around 8, 8:30. So his insistence on driving me there was meant to make sure I was there until 'sis' had arrived.  :doh:
Hmmm… I stayed remarkably calm. Possibly this was due because I had privately raged the first half of the day about DramaSis using my bro as a Flying Monkey around X-mas. My DramaSis-radar had been right on target and tracked her insidious manipulations with ease, apparently… So I was prepared. And in my preparations for this meet I had also prepared myself that in the event of DramaSis (or DramaMama for that matter) showing up I would be MC, and be firm in my boundaries.
So that worked like a charm: I was calm and firm: "In that case I'll leave before she's here, and I'll walk." A "Flight" response with regard to 'sis', and a proper/valid one, combined with a "Fight" response to Enabling Dad with regard to keeping my NC boundary in place. Also quite appropriate.

We had a talk on it. That was OK, I got to reiterate my stance once more. We didn't get into too much detail (which is good: no elaborate JADE-ing going on) but it was pretty clear to me that DramaSis had pulled the same stunt as she had done with bro: She's the victim. To dad she had told: "I don't know what I have done wrong" and probably a whole load of other nonsense (She claims I'm the one who makes it impossible for her to apologize, I'm the one who prevents her from changing her behavior (! as if she were a puppet on a string and I'm the puppet-master, LOL) etc. This my bro told me after this post in this very thread).
I told dad, truthfully, that [name] hadn't contacted me about this AT ALL in the last year. This confused dad, as it should: that doesn't tie in with "I don't know what I did wrong". Why doesn't she ask then, right?
Since dad doesn't want to know what exactly the "(emotional) blackmail" was that DramaSis pulled on me, we couldn't get into too much detail, which only serves my MC and Grey Rock, so that's OK. (I commend dad for not wanting to know in some way: at least he doesn't want to get enmeshed. To a degree only, as he let's 'sis' pull him in, but never mind. I respect him for not wanting to know the details of the Blackmail at least. But off course it's also "neglect", neglect he has shown to me (and us siblings as a whole) during our entire childhood and beyond. Yet, nowadays I'm an adult, so the 'charge' isn't that severe anymore. From a crime (to a child) it's more a misdemeanor to an adult. Not something I should allow him to get away with though. Which I didn't.)
But I could get the point across that 'sis' must know very well what she did do wrong, she blackmailed me after all, so off course she knows. One doesn't blackmail somebody by accident. And I gave dad the example of the only message I got from 'sis' the past 13 months: An invitation to her birthday-party that started with "I possibly would like to invite you" (WTF?) "but something is bothering me". To dad I said: "That is not an invitation, and if something is bothering her, she should speak up. This is nonsense and I don't take bait like that, dad." (or words to that effect)
That registered with dad.
I had to reiterate all that once more, which I did calmly and happily: It doesn't make sense at all so it's OK he struggles with it. I struggle with it too, after all. The manipulation, the Crazy Making, the Chaos Manufacture, the Gaslighting… It still boggles my mind, so he's entitled to his own boggling mind. I can relate.

So, I put up a good "Fight" there as well.

Diner took a bit long (mostly since we had started cooking late because of the talk we had on DramaSis' nonsense) so I could only leave 'on time' if I would leave the dishes.
"Nah," I said to myself, "I'm not going to let DramaSis rule my evening." So I stayed to do the dishes. I'd see if I would still be making it out 'on time' to avoid her, but I made no rush. That felt pretty good (though a bit tense as well, off course). I told dad: "Don't worry, it's OK. One has to set priorities." Wow, while I said it, I thought: "Yeah, that's the way, Dutch. Priorities. That's what often it is all about."
The doorbell rang. "It's OK dad." I once again calmly said to my dad, in case he was tense about the 'confrontation' that would now take place.
I still was MC. I was not going to start a row. I would not "Fight", I would disengage calmly and peacefully. An appropriate "Flight" response.
'Sis' and I kissed (with me having my hands still in the dishwasher. I had my priorities straight ;D ), there was a sort-of-three-way chit-chat while I finished up the dishes, I calmly packed my stuff, said "I was already on the way out, [name] ", said goodbye to both and left.

Note: Probably needless to say, but a lot what I just wrote I did on 'automatic', it was 'improvisations' mostly. Sure, I was "aware" and "there", but the conscious thoughts/analysis I attribute to my actions came later, during the trip home. (Yay for trains that don't require brain-activity to stay safe on the road. :thumbup: )

Too Long Didn't Read:
Sis used dad as a Flying Monkey, dad Enabled (and thereby crossed my NC boundary with sis that he knows off), I stayed calm, stayed the course, handled my boundaries flexible (!), chose the appropriate Fight and Flight responses, amended them when circumstances required without folding them altogether.

This is a big progress for me.
I was happy all the way going home, even while several boundaries had been violated. And I'm still not angry.

DramaSis will stay the Boundary-Buster she is, probably forever.
I think dad is getting more and more respect for what I do, even though it probably brakes his heart to see his daughter and son being NC. But that's OK. It shows he has a heart.
I have the feeling this is the last time he has Enabled his daughter. It's surely something that I hope for. Somewhere along the way I did say to dad: "I don't agree with the way [name] is putting you in between me and her." He answered: "I do that, not her." "Yes, that's true," I replied. End of (a calm) conversation. There is a considerable chance dad will not take the bait next time.

Fingers crossed. :groovey:
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 10:26:54 AM by Dutch Uncle »