All hoovers after going NC with DramaSis and DramaMama. Will it ever end?

[sanmagic7]

hey, dutch uncle,

i've noticed in quite a few of your posts you talk about the inner critic.  may i suggest that it's your inner critic making you feel bad/guilty about this?  about how you feel?  conversely, about how you don't feel re: her troubles?    i think your feelings are valid - they are simply part of who you are and where you are, and don't need to be judged.

i applaud you on continuing you nc, and on resisting the hoovering.  not always easy, either in choice or action.  and, i'm also glad that you have a safe and healthy place where you can put those random thoughts and feelings, instead of sending them out and inviting a disruptive and unhealthy re-connection.  nicely done!

[Dutch Uncle]

***trigger warning: this is a rant***

i've noticed in quite a few of your posts you talk about the inner critic.  may i suggest that it's your inner critic making you feel bad/guilty about this?

Yes, it should be, no? And as far as I now have come to understand, and cognitively comprehend, the Inner Critic is the Internalized voice of the abuse(r). No?
So it's my DramaMama who's the Inner Critic in this case. And this Drama *) is hers. Not mine. Though the Inner Critic/Her is pulling all my string/pushing all the buttons to press me into making it mine.
Says my cognition.

Which fits with how I feel about it, by the way.

conversely, about how you don't feel re: her troubles?

Personally, I couldn't care less, to be honest, to use that offensive line.
I don't know her terminal friend. I've met her twice or so, many decades ago. I can't exactly remember when, but I think I was still living in the parental house. Which would make sense, as the whole OMG-my-daughter-is-gay happened when sis had left home a year or so (possibly even less), which would make me 12, and fully a child still at that time (yet my memories are still very vivid about it all). So that drama lasted for may years (if it not lasts up to now that is) so that gives me seven years to meet my mom's DramaTwin. And not having seen her since. Or perhaps once or twice more in passing at some social occasion (a jubilee of mom or wedding anniversary of (since divorced) mom and dad).

*) what is the Drama? What I really DO feel is that I'm being dragged into the perpetual Drama, and by me posting on this she has actually succeeded in doing so.
So I do feel it as a task, for lack of a better term, to renounce the task given to me today by her/the Inner Critic.
And to cognitively say to me: You are not a dis-compassionate man, Dutch, by reacting the way you do. It's not compassion or empathy that is required of me here, but submission and feeding mom's need. To be the emotional crutch of her.
And I must say, this all is enmeshed with DramaSis as well, who sort of is the origin of this whole enmeshment of DramaMama with her DramaTwin (i.e. this friend and sis' fellow 'lesbian-daughter-of' (through no fault of DramaSis I want to add) who has for over two decades has told me again and again: "You never take into account anybody else, you only care about you."

Well, i'll say here and now, in this very post: I have been made to "take into account" my sis's lesbianism, my mom's internal struggle with it, my mom & sis mutual struggle because of this, mom's DramaTwin and daughters struggle with it all, since the age of 12, a child still, all through my adolescence that followed years later, up to this day.
I have been made to care for DramaMama, DramaSis, DramaTwin and AdoptedDramaTwinSister and somehow feed te needs of ALL OF THEM SIMULTANEOUSLY.

And each and everyone of them (though DramaTwin and her daughter can effectively be scrapped from the equation as they are a mere sideshow in this, not active participants) have for decades put me in between them, gave me loyalty tests time and again, and being neutral in all this (i.e. just being myself and NOT having a problem with their problem) has only earned me life-long scorn, rebuke, resentment and revenge from both of them.

Dare I say it? Yes I dare: I hate it my sister is a lesbian. For I have been put on the battlefield as a pawn since I was a child of 12 years old. By both of them. They are equally culpable for it.
And I know that by having gone NC with both of them is the only way to detach myself fro the Drama they perpetuate.
I have to fulfill both the needs of DramaMama and DramaSis at the same time.
And for what? Because someone loves someone of the same gender. What a non-issue. IMHO.
A no-win proposition.
***end of triggers***

i think your feelings are valid - they are simply part of who you are and where you are, and don't need to be judged

Thank you. 

[sanmagic7]

quite twisted and convoluted, all over the place!  talk about crazy-making!  i'm just glad you've been able to pull yourself out of it, even when they're attempting to pull you back in.  well done!

[Dutch Uncle]

I feel pretty good this morning.
Thank heavens for having this place to share, I used to have to keep all this madness inside.

[Dutch Uncle]

Wow. DramaMama showed up at my door. She managed to get in with a chat trick that she had to go to the toilet. Hesitant I agreed under condition she would leave immediately after that.
Of course she didn't.

I called the cops, LOL.

Currently I'm waiting for them to show up. I will press charges. (for what it's worth)
She has left after I hung up on the 911-call (normal police-line was busy)

I'll be back after the cops have been here.

Good grief. But I feel good.
I stuck up for my boundaries! 

[Three Roses]

  Maybe she'll get it, now.

[Dutch Uncle]

OK. So this will be a double post with the previous.
Cops are busy, called me back to check. All is OK, since she has left.
I will press charges tomorrow.

My mom protested heavily I used the term chat trick while talking to the cops. LOL. "It wasn't a chat trick! I really had to pee!". "Then why are you not leaving!", I shouted, "that's why it's a chat trick!"
Talking about presence of mind, from my side.
And plausible deniability from hers.

A couple of times she tried to have an argument, and I struggled not to get drawn into it. She really knows how to press my buttons. She had some crappy presents for me (socks, is what I saw at the top of the plastic bag) and when she tried to hand them over to me (after her toilet visit) I found myself kicking the bag! "Out, out OUT!" I shouted. I tried to push her out of my home, and it became a struggle. She resisted with all her might. Which then gave me the luminous idea to call the cops. Yay for self-restraint, even when one looses it.
I was clearly loosing it... almost too far.

There was the expected whining that "this can't go on" ("Yes it can, I feel fine with it" was my reply), "I am your mother!" (note: not "you are my son". Being OOTF is such a blessing) to which I even managed to say "Well, sort off only, you are my therapist." BAM! There, I've said it. Whine, whine,    from her: "I'm sorry for that, and I see how much pain I have caused you" ("and I 'd like to do that some more, please let me in again" is of course the (not so) secret (anymore) message behind it).

While I was on the phone (her downstairs at my door, me sitting on the staircase leading up to my floor) she tried to distract me with sentences like "this is the best I can do" "I'm only doing the best I can" etc., which I let pass as I was trying to get a cop on the phone, or was actually talking to a cop.

She wanted to know "why", to which I said nothing more than "read our last e-mail exchange, it's all there" (this is the infamous exchange where she blamed me for her forgetting to tell me her Jubileeeeee had been moved to another date, and she "knew how that came about" (the forgetting) as I had "offended" her there months earlier. Such a blatant blame-shifting tactic was even too much for my well ingrained denial and servitude, and both surrendered to the truth.)
She tried the "I don't have them anymore trick, to which I replied: "Too bad". She wanted me to resend them ("No").

At some point I also managed to get out that what she was doing right now (chatting her way in and then not leaving) was exactly the problem (a veiled attempt to tell her she is a professional boundary-buster. Probably best to keep it veiled as well. For any normal person it would not be veiled in the first place, it's her blindness to obfuscates her vision. SHE is wearing the veil after all, although that's probably a scam: she has 20/20 vision pretending to be blind.) And the therapeutic-New Age-psychoballe of her "wanting to see and hear you" popped up as well.

So I expect lots of  over the next days and weeks, not in the least since DramaSis' birthday party is coming this weekend, so she and sis will have excellent opportunity to play the pity-party together to LC-bro and enabler-dad.
Quite probably this effort of DramaMama was more inspired by being able to poke sis' eyes out she had "such a good talk with Dutch" and shame DramaSis in the proces of her own party.
Good grief, is it sick to think like that or is it sick I don't even invent this stuff, but only imagine this because it has happened so often... That's a rhetorical question of course. Two uHPD's... (I should come up with a joke someday: Two HPD's are standing on X. Says one HPD to the other:" " to which the other HPD replies " ".
But I digress )

Good thing is I've made such progress the last week(s), that my house was actually presentable. Not that she did see much, but I had been a mess just a few days earlier.

I've survived one more!  The tests get harder every time, but I'm getting stronger faster then they can get creepier. 

edited to add: I went to the police station to press charges. I have an appointment to do so on the 2nd of October . The two female officers behind the desk (whom I spoke to separately) did look at me funny. The first one had to giggle when I told her DramaMama had used a chat trick to get in (she of course had to ask if I had asked my mother to leave, to which I reiterated she wasn't even allowed in except for her chat trick about needing a pee) but quickly regained her composure by immediately following up with "that's not funny". "No, it isn't", I said. When I told the second one I had been wrestling with my 'mom' to get her out of my house before I called the police she said "Ahhh..." out of pity for 'mom' of course. "Yeah! 'Ahhh...' for me!", I responded. That shut her up allright.
I had hoped I could press charges today and tomorrow she would get a nice visit by the cops to tell her not to anything like that again, as she would be in serious trouble. Now it'll take two weeks. Oh well...

[Dutch Uncle]

Maybe she'll get it, now.

Yeah...  (bolding mine)

[Dutch Uncle]

I got an e-mail from her: "You said I had been your therapist, and that's true. That never should have happened. I'm sorry.
Your mother."


I feel OK about having told her that though, as it's one of the (many) prime reasons why I'm NC. And as I've said elsewhere here (primarily in my recovery journal): "Mrs. Therapist, you're fired!"
Too bad that she, as an adult, has made the choice to forfeit her role as mother in favor of her narcissistic ambitions as a therapist. And imposed it on her small child(ren). (Un?)fortunately I now know it's up to me to (re-)parent, (re-)mother myself, and that her opportunity obligation to do so has now long passed and that in no way her neglect can be undone.
She'll probably try to leverage this to try and hoover me into "let's do our best to now get the mother-son relationship we never had", but that's futile if not outright dangerous for me to expose me to the never ending narcissistic abuse.
There has never been a secure bonding between her and me, a secure bonding only she could have provided at my age at the time.
And given her "breach of homely peace" (as Tresspass to land is named in Dutch) using a chat or confidence trick yesterday only fortifies my conviction and knowledge I'll never be even remotely secure or safe with her.
I will press charges for trespassing. I'm not even going for "stalking". This is worse than stalking.

[Sienna]

Dutch, i have been catching up. Im so sorry you have been going through all of this.
How are you doing?

May be triggers...

Im wondering if you have any support in real life? Im really concerned reading your posts for your safety and your emotional well being.
We are all here for you on the forum.

Firstly, you must of had to pluck up a lot of courage...and or you must have been really angry...to go to the police- i know it was necessary for your safety and your own boundaries and I'm glad you did it.
Im sorry to hear that that woman laughed. She obviously didnt understand...and I'm proud of you for standing up for your boundaries.

Too bad that she, as an adult, has made the choice to forfeit her role as mother in favor of her narcissistic ambitions as a therapist. And imposed it on her small child(ren). (Un?)fortunately I now know it's up to me to (re-)parent, (re-)mother myself, and that her opportunity obligation to do so has now long passed and that in no way her neglect can be undone.

It is unfortunate that its now up to you to reparent and re-mother yourself. You never asked for this. I know how it feels when it is just too late for them. It imagine it is hard...having her trying to come back in, when she was never there *as a mother* before.
I don't know if you feel this way, but i know its quite normal, when something has come to and end..ie. a relationship to just want that person to leave you alone. Especially if you want more from a person who can not give it.

I think Dutch, that if you don't feel safe with her, then maybe that is worth listening to. I know its hard.
If you look at her actions, and maybe if you can bear it, if you look at them after some time has passed- for a little more clarity, maybe make a list if you havent...if your feel that will help of course, it might help you to logically see her behaviour for what it is.
I know that emotions can come into play and things can get scrambled in our heads.

It sounds really scary what happened to you. I hope you are safe, and...it would be great if you felt safe too. I hope you can take care of yourself and just...that you take it easy. 

[Dutch Uncle]

Thank you.

It's hard to feel safe around her, as was proven again two days ago. The fact I actually got overtly aggressive (kicking the 'gift'-bag and pushing her out) does and did show to me how unsafe I was. Not only felt, but actually was. Also the fact she stayed until I actually finished the call with the police shows how big her lack of boundaries is. While I was on the phone she actually debated she had not used a chat trick as she had actually went to the toilet. As if that matters! What matters is she didn't leave, as I had put as a condition to use the toilet in the first place. I will make sure that gets in the report I'm filing: She wasn't allowed in in the first place, after which she pulled the chat trick of needing to pee urgently. (I know she has a 'weak bladder' from having given childbirth, a condition not uncommon,)
I bet she would have loved to wrest my phone from her hands and start an argument with the officer on the other side of the line! Good thing I was literally holding the high ground, sitting on top of the stairs. 

I know that in/with my FOO I will never be safe. Too many narcs and enablers.
I hope law-enforcement will be able to help me out to some degree. But an element of risk will always be there. Physically only my sister is a real threat (as she is a martial arts trainer), but she has not been physically abusive to me since I was a child, and then it was only very sparse (she took it out on bro). It was my bro who was the culprit there and then for me, in combination with dad.
In a sense I hope this story will 'leak', as then also DramaSis knows she can't pull the same stunt as DramaMama did.

[Sienna]

Hey Dutch

It definitely sounds like you are not safe.
May be denial and gas slighting from your mother. -debating she used a chat trick-
Dutch, is this a narcissist term-chat trick? I have to say -I do find the word amusing (in a good way)

And yes-I agree -she should have left. You are meant to listen to your children!
If she is not allowed on to yours on the first lace -it brings up the question- why was she there? -
Unless to speak to you outside.

I'm sorry that you bring kind and letting her in to pee backfired.

I know it sucks and o dont know where you are on your healing, I'm just thinking that  this including your own anger, may be a source of validation and proof for you that your mothers behaviour and your feelings go about it are valid and real.

I wish you all luck possible with law enforcement and I hope your sis doesn't try anything,
I am glad you think you are safe physically- I hope they don't physically cross your boundeies again...then hopefully you can start to feel emotionally more safe instead of living in what I  guessing is fear and hypervigelancr.

[Hazy111]

Ive only just joined the site and have been reading many posts.   

So much resonates, phrases used, im glad you are in contact with your anger, i wasnt able to.

All this * , guilt,  manipulation

All power to you

[Dutch Uncle]

Thank you Hazy111. It's unfortunate this stuff resonates with you. A  for that.

May be denial and gas slighting from your mother. -debating she used a chat trick-
Dutch, is this a narcissist term-chat trick? I have to say -I do find the word amusing (in a good way)

I don't know. They lie a lot. Con-artists. It's a red flag for sure.

If she is not allowed on to yours on the first lace -it brings up the question- why was she there? -
Unless to speak to you outside.

Right. She wasn't there to speak to me, no matter where. She was there to get INTO my house, and shred me to pieces on home ground. Literally. If she would have succeeded, the more devastating the effect would have been. She has used that trick before, always successfully until 3,5 years ago, when it was only partially successful. I'm not sure, but I think she's been never been in since that one. I arranged to meet her in-town since.

hopefully you can start to feel emotionally more safe instead of living in what I  guessing is fear and hypervigelance.

Thanks. It will probably take a while more, but I'm already feeling more safe. Having asked for police protection is for me a sign I'm getting aware safety is an actual achievable goal. Before this I thought Freezing or Fawning were the only options I had. Now I've added Fight. With her Fleeing the scene. 

[Sienna]

Right. She wasn't there to speak to me, no matter where. She was there to get INTO my house, and shred me to pieces on home ground. Literally. If she would have succeeded, the more devastating the effect would have been. She has used that trick before, always successfully until 3,5 years ago, when it was only partially successful. I'm not sure, but I think she's been never been in since that one. I arranged to meet her in-town since.

I understand. From what you told me yesterday about your views /knowlege on my X's behavour- maybe the same applies here.
Good thing i think to meet her else where.

Oh yes, it will take some time to feel safer, there is the possibility that it could happen again.

police protection is for me a sign I'm getting aware safety is an actual achievable goal. Before this I thought Freezing or Fawning were the only options I had. Now I've added Fight. With her Fleeing the scene. 

Yes, I do hope you get what you need from the help of the police - i hope they help basically, as you should have that help as you've asked for it and obviously need it.
I like what you did with the ending there. haha.

oh, and ps.- sorry Dutch about my spellings  - so bad! in the last post. auto correct perhaps.