The long road

[JohnnyBoy]

Dear God no its not the same woman....this is a woman that told her daughter and I quote " Your a worthless piece of $%@# and if your going to kill yourself I wish you'd do it and get out of our lives."

[JohnnyBoy]

This is her bio-mom whom she is trying to cut ties with. The woman has very strong NPD traits.

[JohnnyBoy]

my ex asked for her bio-moms number just now...really don't want her talking to the woman but felt I had no right keeping the number from her.

[arpy1]

that's weird, but earlier i nearly posted a question for you J/B and bottled out becos i lost confidence.

i may be totally wrong about this, but on the offchance what i learnt out of my own failed marriage might be of use, i will say what i felt.  if it's rubbish, please ignore it.

my ex is a very damaged, very manipulative and emotionally abusive person. he could always get to me by being needy, depressed, or sick or all of the above.  he used it for years to manipulate and control me and to negate my emotional needs, indeed, to invalidate me totally in every way. i was the strong one, so i knew that i had to constantly rescue him at the expense of myself. till there was, in the end, nothing left of me.

i'm not saying he even consciously did this but nonetheless he was a master of his art.  if i failed to do/be what he needed, he would use all sorts of tactics to pull me back into line: Mr Nice, Mr Needy, Mr Insecure, Mr Silent Treatment, Mr Sick, Mr In So Much Pain etc.  his needs were to be met even at the expense of the kids'.  he never did Mr Overdose or Mr Violent, thank god, but he never really needed to, becos i always rescued him fast - not to do so would result in heavy heavy times, believe me.

interestingly after i finally started to stand up to him, he did a good line in Mr Angry, Mr Snidey and Mr Aggressive which was a side of him i had never seen till then. 

My question is something along the lines of, have you thought that maybe the last couple of days with yr ex have been about trying to manipulate you and the kids situation? not saying she's not in desperate pain, or anything, becos she is. but that there may be an agenda there that she might not even be conscious of, but that is very effective in tempting you to feel responsible for being the carer or rescuing her again?

i hope that isn't gonna offend you. but D/U's last post made me think maybe i should say it. you already had so much on your plate, and you only have so much energy.

[stillhere]

JohnnyBoy, I wish you eventual peace, but until that's possible, congratulations for maintaining some presence of mind through all this. 

Perhaps you will one day be able to take your children far away.

[JohnnyBoy]

As for the triangulation, I'm out of it, shes knows it, her mother will learn. Arpy honey, *chuckles ah yes I have thought of that, and that is why I am most guarded toward her right now. I know She is hurting, she knows she lost her children, I know she never in a million yrs wanted that to happen but that can not change that it did happen, and that she was warned. She asked me today if I would be there for her through all this, *sighs, I told her of course I'm your friend aren't I? She sniffled and said I want us to be more then friends tho I know that's not going to happen, I said no, not right now, right now you need to forget about us, forget about being alone, even forget about the kids, you just need to focus on getting yourself well. After that we'll discuss our future. She told me she loved me, and sadly I believe she does, and always has in her own screwed up way, I told her I loved her too, to take care of herself and get better. Anyway, I am staying the course I am on which is to work my * off get a home and get my children.

[JohnnyBoy]

The post I made yesterday, the flashback, that's the first time Ive every written it down. its was draining, but cleansing. So strange how much I remember of that one brief moment. So much happening in a three month period. we had our easter dinner in the patient lounge of the psyche ward so daddy could be with us. damn why is all this coming back? It was 23 yrs ago. for a long time dad would sit and cry over nothing, just be laughing and cutting up then suddenly sobbing. There was an instance when we went to see dad and participate in group, mom had asked dad something, he bolted up out of his char, mumbling something under his breath guarding his face with his arms, he ran for the door then the stairwell, a few minutes later the orderlies brought him back in a straightjacket. Will I ever forget this again?  I should say period, because I never forgot it to start with, oh yeah, I see it in my dreams. The look of sheer childhood terror on the face of a grown man who was suppose to be strong and protect me from my fears? I still own the gun he used, why did I keep it? Don't blame the weapon, blame the man holding it. Also, I felt as if its permanently linked to me and my family. Has anybody ever experienced what could only be called a memory slideshow? Its like every bad thing that ever happened in your life is put into a power point presentation and ran thru your brain.

[JohnnyBoy]

my sisters who were older and had been molested by an uncle got therapy, no one ever asked how I felt...not once, until years later and I mean like 6 yrs later a much older cousin took me aside and actually sat down with me asked how I felt, what was my take on the situation...ahem all I could say was "does it really matter?"

[JohnnyBoy]

I was actually in therapy for a bit, hospitalized twice, have since just oh I don't know come to grips with it? My mother always thought she was too good for therapy, which kinda made us feel bad for going. Ya know the night before he shot himself my dad swore to me he would never do anything to take himself away from me, he also said it that morning as I left for school, I never completely forgave my dad, I loved him dearly til the day he died and past, but I never...ever trusted him again. I actually believe that promise is what made him decide to fight to survive. As he lay on the floor bleeding out, the emts working on him he told them to let him die, My oldest sister said "If you  do what the * will we tell JB.....this still tears me up....she said a look of total sadness and fear came over him and he start hollering help oh god help me I cant leave my baby boy! I think my sisters have always resented that he wanted to survive only on the mention of me. One has actually voiced it.

[JohnnyBoy]

True...all of it.....sorry if Ive rambled, it just that its like a floodgate has opened, I just keep remembering things, things I don't want to...*rubs eyes vigorously, I don't want to see this anymore. So many things. Example, dad in shower, covered in blood hollering for mom..a broken razor in his hand, swearing he didn't remember doing it...to please get him help. another....me the night after he shot himself.....I punch a hole through my bedroom door, then lay on the bed and cry, yes a 14 yr old boy bawled like a baby. I remember vividly me slapping my dad across the face the first time I broke down and went to visit him after the shooting. We had to travel 4 hours at times because of the hospital they would have dad in, I remember once we were going to see him, I had missed school cause he had been begging for me to come up, my mom and sister started fighting and my sister decided she would not drive my mom up there, I remember feeling so sad and disheartened for my dad, almost like it was his feelings through me *shakes head I dunno sounds weird I know, I started crying and got alittle hysterical begging mom and sis to calm down and go see daddy, I actually said he needs me, to this day I don't know why. Mom actually started to cry. We ended up going as scheduled, and actually had a very good visit with daddy. I can remember everything we did.

[arpy1]

  this is so painful fr you, and i feel so badly for the horribleness of it all. i'm glad you're able to put it down and know that we are supporting you, however clumsily.

and i feel a bit kind of, in awe if i'm honest.  i guess you must be much a lot younger than me. i just wish i had been that aware when my kids were young. maybe i would have done some things differently.

this kind of 'newsreel' flashbacky thing is horrible, it seems once it starts it just has to roll through the whole reel. as if your mind is still trying to make sense of it all.

weird thing is, i have a feeling, which i am hoping is right, that the more times i let it roll and do the crying and the anger and the emotion of it, the more it kind of cleanses it and robs it of its power to devastate my life in the here and now. that's my hope, anyway.

much strength and courage to you, dear JB. and many 

[JohnnyBoy]

My ex is hovering the * out of me to take her back and bringing her back up here I just don't know, even her dad wants me to..I told herI would think about it, but for now just focus on getting well.

[arpy1]

not for me to give advice, but i just want to say that i question whether you would be able to help her in the long run.

a bit about my experience...
i felt so guilty about leaving my ex, especially since he was disabled.

the best bit of advice my mum gave me before she died: 'arpy1, a person like that will always find a rescuer or two. you've done your bit'. but that didn't make it easier. i would probably still be with him now if i hadn't cracked up under the strain...

and now i look and lo and behold he really has found a rescuer or two . he even has a bunch of church ladies to go round every so often and sort his house out for him.

i now know that the love he felt for me was not about two people in mutual partnership. he did love me after his fashion but he isn't able to do grown up love.

for him, albeit unconsciously, it was about having a resident rescuer who would willingly centre her universe around him and love and help him in his neediness even at the expense of the kids and of her own wellbeing. 

i poured myself into him in the hope of helping him, healing him with the strength of my love. i did it for two decades becos i was certain he would never survive without me.... and that one day he would be healed enough to love me back in the way i needed.
but of course, he never was able to love me that way. and yes, he did survive, he is fine,even tho i deserted him.

i am the one dealing with the fall out, the trauma of what happened to my soul after so many years of meeting his need.

and so are the kids, i'm ashamed to say, (altho i am hoping they're gonna be able to work through the bad stuff as they grow in maturity.)

whatever my opinion on this one, J/B, i've got confidence in you and i support you. you are a good person. you will do what is right for you and for the kids, whatever you decide that is. and we'll be here for you.

[JohnnyBoy]

i agree

[JohnnyBoy]

I could help her...if she will let me, I have more means and connections up here then her dad ever will. I have more experience dealing with a person like her then he does, all the crack ups and lockdowns and making sure meds are correct and combinable ( which I think has been a lot of her problem). You can tell he is out of his league on this one. And sadly right now I'm the only person she will do anything for. So many similarities to my dad, I was 15 and basically had to be his parent cause he wouldn't do a damn thing for anybody else. Anybody else have to go thru that? The doctors even told my mom to keep at the hospital as much as possible because he wouldn't behave for them or even her. On top of all of that I had to go to the nursing home to make sure my grandfather would eat (He only wanted me feeding him, he swore everybody else tried to choke him). Just once I wished I wasn't so damn special lol.