Blame?

[Dutch Uncle]

Southbound, your story is harrowing. 
[...]
Your story represents a perversion of mediation, which is supposed to provide a kind of neutrality or at least a forum where all voices can be heard.  Instead, you seem to have faced an ambush.  And the presence of two mediators, effectively facing off, implies something more like a court proceeding with advocates for each side.

You were wronged in so many ways!

Well said! 

slightly Off Topic:

The "therapist" (I have no idea who this woman was)

I bet my mom could pull off something like that. 

[arpy1]

southbound: i am sending you a big

reading what all of you have written about in this thread, as usual, i get more angry about what happened to you guys that i can manage to be about my own stuff. that has to be a  bit weird, right?

i really don't know what i feel about blame.  i know intellectually that people were to blame for what they did. but it doesn't go deeper than my head. it kind of switches off at the neck! 

maybe to be able to blame appropriately involves actually accepting and owning the pain caused by the damage done in some deep way? perhaps that's one reason why it is so hard to do? it is different from understanding the perpetrator and forgiving them becos they 'couldn't help it'. isn't it kind of saying they could help it and should have.
after all, i can manage to blame myself for the stuff i have done wrong. actually, i also manage to blame myself for the stuff that was done wrong to me...

i think i am still at the stage of 'how could they do that to me?'. what i increasingly feel is odd bursts of deep resentment, almost hatred of the main perpetrator, the leader of the cult i was in.

more than anything that i feel about my marriage, or about my FOO (tho i know intellectually both those situations harmed me significantly) i still feel that it's the cult that did the most damage. i have actually been quite surprised by the hatred. never thought i was the sort of person to hate another person. and the feeling comes and goes. i think i suppress it, this is the first time i have admitted it to anyone.

i wonder if this is what is meant by dissociation, this blankness of emotion about things that your head knows must have been terribly wrong? maybe the only bit i am not doing that with is the cult experience. and that's why i can feel a little hatred about it. in which case maybe to be able to feel hatred is a good thing for me??? after all, it was pretty bad. well, yes, really very bad.

this is a very helpful thread.

[stillhere]

Arpy1, what you describe is close to what I mean when I say I struggle to feel anger.  I mostly feel fear and otherwise am numb.  I think accessing emotions unrelated to survival and vigilance is one of my challenges.

But I can get angry on other people's behalf, as you just noted.  And I can be angry at some "secondary" sources of difficulty, as you may be with the cult.  I can blame, but I'm not so good with being truly angry in the moment, and in general, the moment is long past.

I think dissociation is closer to a kind of fragmentation.  When I've dissociated most markedly, I find I've done things unawares.

[arpy1]

I think accessing emotions unrelated to survival and vigilance is one of my challenges.

oh. that is such a profound insight, i never thought of it like that. thanks, stillhere. that has to be my quote of the week.

it shows me why i seemingly feel such a range of emotions, but 90% of them are painful ones, and the remaining 10%, the 'good' ones like joy or pleasure are always tinged with poignancy, inevitably short-lived. 'happy' type emotions are less useful (and could even be dangerous/distracting)  for immediate survival. painful ones like fear or anxiety are useful if you have to keep alert for danger. woah!

[Dutch Uncle]

Ran into this article that addresses Blame vs. Accountability (Ownership)

key phrase (for me):

Adult children of toxic parents who are new to the healing process may be given advice such as, "stop blaming your parents for everything" when in fact, the reality is, the adult child is likely just beginning to allow themselves to truly take stock of what was wrong and accept how it has negatively impacted them for the very first time in their life.

http://lightshouse.org/lights-blog/blame-vs-accountability#axzz3lzFSamGh

[stillhere]

Thank you for that, Dutch Uncle.  The distinction could be useful when confronted with deniers of CPTSD (though I've finally learned to be circumspect enough to avoid having to deal with them).

[MaryAnn]

Thank You for this one DU .  I had turned everything inward from childhood until I was in my 40's. I have continued to live and feel the only way I ever knew how and it finally broke me.  I am still working on being angry about what my parents and stop turning it all on myself, feeling ashamed, and unloveable.  But I am learning about the events and ongoing abuse and neglect have had a negative impact and the unhealthy ways that I learned to cope and manage it to survive.
AryAnn

[fairyslipper]

That is such a great article. Thank you for sharing it. I can still remember how hard it was to hear the word abuse the first few times in therapy when she would talk about my family's treatment of me. The denial ran so deep........we had issues sure, but abuse........whoa. It was so hard to go against the grain of all the years of programming and be able to say the word out loud and admit, that yes, that was exactly what happened. This article was very thorough and specific in how much we need to be able to realize this and put the blame or responsibility where it truly lies. One of the hardest but definitely most important steps in getting through all of this. 

[arpy1]

go gently with yourself, southbound! yes it needs addressing, only gently.  maybe your T might be able to offer some advice about how to start in a way that won't feel like annihilation. just a thought.

[arpy1]

god, yeah that's exactly what it feels like!! soul murder.

you are very lucky in your T, she sounds one in a million.

i am rooting for you to find a way through this one, sb, and that it won't be as totally devastating as you fear but that you'll quickly find hope that it can get sorted at last. and that the stuff you attract will be good stuff that nourishes your newly recovered soul. that's my wish for you.

big

[stillhere]

Southbound, I have the feeling that fate dealt you a blow I managed to avoid, just barely.  I really didn't have the clarity of mind to tell this "therapist" off, as I hope would now.  But I was far away, and this was around 1989/1990, I think, before electronic communication.  That I'm writing about it onto a screen 25 years later, still remembering this woman's voice, speaks to the threat the whole episode could have posed.

I wish you a path to peace.  I know it's been a very long road already.  You deserve so much better.

[Dutch Uncle]

Dad: I've done the rotting in *, and all the other things you wanted me to do, as well as some of the million-and-one things you condemned me for. Enough now. I'm going to get better. RIP. I promise I will make sense of my life or die in the attempt.

   


Allow me to kick dad where it hurts. What an  .

[stillhere]

Southbound, I'm struck by the parallels between your story and mine.  I, too, had a visit from my father, without my NM, and it was the last time I saw him, in 1989.  He was conflicted, clearly, trying simultaneously to recruit me back into the FOO with all the characters in place and to engage somehow supportively.  Of course, he couldn't be supportive without my NM's consent, so the message was incredibly muddled.

One task for me has been recognizing that he shares some of the blame here.  He may have been damaged, no doubt had CPTSD too.  But he was also an enabler.