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[bheart]

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[schrödinger's cat]

There's still a chance (if I'm reading this right) that CPTSD will enter the 11th revision of the International Classification of Diseases (published by the World Health Organization in 2017).

CPTSD is mentioned in a leaflet published by the (British) Royal College of Psychiatrists. (Here: http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/healthadvice/problemsdisorders/posttraumaticstressdisorder.aspx). The German Society for Psycho-Traumatology also describes CPTSD on their website. Both organizations mention it without any qualifiers, so they don't say something like "...according to some of the loopier experts" or "is not officially a valid diagnosis" or something.

It's not much, but it's something. So if someone points fingers and says "neener neener neener, it's not an official diagnosis", you could theoretically say: "it so is, just not in this country".

[Kizzie]

BHeart (and everyone) I've been giving some thought to what we can do if anything to raise awareness and was just at another forum I am a member of. It's for Social Anxiety Disorder which like CPTSD is a relative newcomer and in need of greater recognition by sufferers themselves but also re compensation, treatment, etc.

Anyway, SAS has a forum devoted to discussing ways of raising awareness and I like the idea of having something like that here very much.  I think the community (OOTS and perhaps at some point  the wider population of people who suffer from CPTSD) would benefit from something along those lines. It would capture and hopefully harness the energy of "the soap box."   

[whitecat]

I think the psych community wants to keep a lid on what goes on in the nuclear family and what happens to many children.  I mean for every one of us who recovers memories of abuse there are probably a hundred who have no memory and no clue as to why they are so miserable.  Just think how hard the shrinks would have to work if cptsd was common knowledge...actually talking to people about painful issues and not just giving out ridiculous labels and prescriptions for dangerous drugs..

[Kizzie]

Re the advocacy/raising awareness piece, I deleted the forum "Raising Awareness" in favour of going with a Forum Hub (tks Rain ) . Th Board is a "work-in-progress" in some respects so tks everyone for your patience.

I added a "Raising Awareness" thread in "Community Matters" as I'm not sure as to the best way to go about gathering input (and for whom and what it is we want to get across), and thought we could discuss it there and see what unfolds. 

I like the idea of trying to figure out what it is we want to say to various groups and Rain's notion of a forum hub - info for government, journalists, family and friends, newcomers, would be great. We just have to figure out what we want to get out there and to whom.  So if you have some thoughts on this, please visit the thread and post away       http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=388.0

[Badmemories]

I can see that it would cost lots of money for insurance companies, the government for SSDI and SSD benefits. I am diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder.  I can see that IF My Dr. did diagnosis me with CPTD, then I would NOT BE able to get benefits. I have filed for SSD. Think How many people could/would get benefits then?

The thing I think that woulds be good about having it in the DSM would be for Young people to get help at a earlier age and probably be Mentally stable for MOST of their life, unlike me who has suffered for years and really did not know that I could help Myself. I have been in Out patient treatment for 2 times..(.8:30 -4:30. 5 days a week) I didn't even hear about Narcissism, Advoidant disorder, Borderline personality Disorder or any of the diseases that have caused me problems with people I have been involved with! I mean even though I did well and passed the tests they gave me at the end of treatment...going back living with a personality Disordered person did not make it last very long!

I can see that IF I'd been giving these tools that we talk, about then I would be further ahead right now! I think Bipolar is just (for me) a cycle of ups and downs, that I used to think was brain chemical based, now is probably stress, EF, and other things we talk about on here! The one good thing about it is that I am thinking that I can get better and get well... before I felt like it was a bus out of control that I couldn't drive!

I am grieving the opportunity that They had during this time to help me MORE with My problems had I known about the personality disordered people, that I live with. Then the treatment was mostly DBT/CBT sheets which really did help me. What would have helped me more in My situation is learning about boundaries, the 51%rule, Flying monkeys, and all of the things in the toolbox at OOTF. I would have also been helped a lot by having the traits of the PD people and How to deal with them, ( I mean what not to do and what to do with each.)

Then My $61.00 question is what do  they have to loose really giving me the information that I needed to get well? Think of the repeat business they get from NOT telling and giving us this information?  I went 2 times and IF I would have had insurance then I would have went the 3rd time. I am sure that cost My insurance co about $20,000 per time. The only way I could see that they DON'T want the information out in classes is because they Might have patients with one of the PD's and would not want the group to notice them. We all know that these people don't go for help anyway...

I also don't think that T's, at least some of them even know about CPSTD.. I have read on OOTF how hard it is to get a good therapist. The few that I went to did not seem to know about the PD"s if they did they did not give me useful information to work with... I get better information on these forums than I ever did with T's I went to! I guess that might be why I always quit T's. I seem to get the ones that did talk therapy. I guess that did help with the crazy making..etc.

Everything I read about the court systems and child custody cases, the people in charge do not know or understand anything about Pd's behavior. The Spouse that is driven crazy because of the other spouse often does not get the kids...Some of the PD's on a higher working life ( forgot the right word here! higher functioning level don't seem to be as crazy as they make US look!  That alone caused the kids to be sent to a crazy living situation that makes them have Cptsd. So the cycle goes on and on! They either become the victim over and over... or they become the predator and victimize others.  They are both no win situations!

Amazing that the KEY that we have been using to help ourselves to get better, that would change the world as it is...is not available in the schools, and all the educational material that we give to students. I mean what a difference it might make in the lives of children who are living with these problems on a day to day experience, and teachers do not know about Cptsd?  How much good they could do!

any way off of My soapbox! 

[spryte]

Everything I read about the court systems and child custody cases, the people in charge do not know or understand anything about Pd's behavior. The Spouse that is driven crazy because of the other spouse often does not get the kids...Some of the PD's on a higher working life ( forgot the right word here! higher functioning level don't seem to be as crazy as they make US look!  That alone caused the kids to be sent to a crazy living situation that makes them have Cptsd.

This is exactly what happened to me. My mother abused my father until he left. He didn't have many resources to try to fight for my brother and I, and I'm still trying to work out how much he would have even wanted to...but at one point recently, he did make a comment about how hard it is to prove emotional abuse in the courts. Even if they'd brought me in to testify, a judge never would have given custody to my single father because of the bias that the courts have towards mothers. And as an adult, I've watched that same thing play out time and time again with male friends who have PD ex's - and the kids are the ones who really suffer.

Aside from benefits, I'm just really angry that more therapists don't know more about it. My therapist had never even heard of C-PTSD and she works in a family resource center. I was diagnosed with PTSD 3 times, and yet no one ever tried to address it because I didn't have "traditional" PTSD reactions and the ones that I was having were not what was significantly impacting my life. All the other C-PTSD symptoms WERE.

For those interested in a creative way to raise awareness this might be a thing you could do.

It might be easier to show an example than to explain it.

http://www.pinterest.com/search/pins/?q=psychology&term_meta%5B%5D=psychology%7Ctyped

Pintrest is a pretty great way to get info out there. All you need is a graphic to be able to link to. The graphics get shared many, many times, and if you click on it, it takes you directly to the source. So, if someone started a blog, or found a blog, that talked about C-PTSD and then linked it to Pinterest, that would be a great way to make the information visible. All I did for the link above was type in "Psychology" in the search bar and all those really interesting sites and info-graphics came up.

To get specific though, something like this could be done:
http://thepsychmind.com/page/3

I've seen these kinds of blogs on tumblr for several different topics. This one is specifically geared towards psychology facts. One could be made for C-PTSD "facts" (I don't know how many actual "facts" there are about C_PTSD, how much research has been done) You'd want it to be really based in the information that's already out there I think.

Just some thoughts. I would love to do it, but I have too much going on right now. If I'm not mistaken though, those blogs can be set up so that more than one person can contribute ideas, so that might be a direction to go in.

[Badmemories]

Spryte,
From what I have read in the USA so many Husbands are getting custody now because they seem normal... and the wives seem crazy because the PDH drove them to it. Then H's don't want to pay child support and fight like dogs, and lie, etc so they get the kids.... then the new Wife that they are grooming really is the one who takes care of the abused former wives kids.

Keep on keeping on!

[spryte]

Badmemories - I don't know where that might be happening, but it hasn't been my actual experience at all. I have several male friends who have had insane ex's - where there was demonstrable evidence of emotional abuse and neglect, where the courts wouldn't do anything at all.

One friend of mine just got his son this summer because the ex committed suicide. 16 years of emotional abuse and neglect for his kid. They kept going to court, she kept putting on the "I'm the prim and proper sane one, and he's the tattooed Charlie Manson one." The judges nearly laughed him out of court - meanwhile, the children are living in squalor, the 16 year old has been kept out of school for nearly two years to babysit the younger one, never any food in the house, drug parties going on, and five..yes five, open children and family services cases against her. That entire family (my friend and his new gf, and even HER children) all have mild c-ptsd from dealing with the woman's insanity. It was the craziest thing I've ever seen.

[alovelycreature]

The DSM is such a terrible book. The research in parts isn't valid, it pathologizes normal feelings and behavior. The National Institute on Mental Health no longer backs it. Also, some insurances are allowing therapists to not put down a DSM diagnosis for treatment because unfortunately, things aren't abnormal when they effect so many people. Here's the link:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/side-effects/201305/the-nimh-withdraws-support-dsm-5

[Stormy57]

Based on Van Der Kolk's book, "for every soldier who serves in a war zone abroad, there are ten children who are endangered in their own homes". Learning of the narcissist parent connection I certainly believe these statistics and that that  CPTSD number is only growing.   Although it is not limited to, everyone mostly relates PTSD to soldiers of war and they get it (at least now they do and unlike for children, that is an on the job injury that the government is responsible for, not to say our veterans are being treated right).  Using the link that SC posted (not taking away from the fact that it is something and I appreciate the information), is for PTSD and further down the page (almost as an add on/afterthought) adds a bit about CPTSD.

When I explain to people the difference between PTSD and C-PTSD I tell them that soldiers, for example, made a choice to be in a war zone and are trained and given guns to defend themselves against the enemy. Little children don't have a choice. I don't say this to trivialize combat PTSD because my brother had it, but only to enlighten people to the difference.

[brainSTORM]

TRIGGER WARNING, maybe.

I'm on the verge of raging over this topic.  I'll try not to vent too much here, but I do need to find a good place/thread to do that safely.

Just how the heck are we supposed to "get help"

I have my own 'grudge' against Psychology/Psychiatry mostly because it has been completely USELESS in providing me with help or hope, and has simply drained my bank account, energy, and optimism.  The "system", at least in the USA, is a JOKE!  Though, not a laughable one.

Sarcasm about an actual occurrence:  I just love paying a doc $100/hr. just to have them say, "so what do you think is wrong?"

grrr! *! aren't YOU 'the professional'.  I make minimum wage and can understand that SOMETHING is wrong.  YET, you tell me that self-diagnosing is dangerous!!!!! *, MAJOR WANT TO RAGE ON YOU, DOC, THE SYSTEM, etc. moment.  But, I never say any of that, the Ndad voice in my head saying "you are wrong, behave."  (The paradox there w/ Ndad, is, well... CRAZY!!! in itself).

I logically understand that the science like many other things is fairly new (I'm older than half of the books, and I'm not that old).  It's like being the first to discover germs, but no one 'believes you' because they are invisible.  THE FRUSTRATION ALONE IS EXHAUSTING!

The frustration and hopelessness is what stirs up the *rage* feelings.  I don't rage, by classical definition, I internalize EVERYTHING!!!  Not good for my mind or body!  Sometimes, I think, "if I raged, and behaved badly, would 'they' take notice and do SOMETHING TO HELP?"  IS THAT WHAT IT TAKES TO GET SOME F-ING HELP???  Yet, I never do it, b/c bad behavior "is wrong".

On the other hand, I AM SO GLAD AND GREATFUL that I found this place!!!  I finally feel like I have some answers as to "what's wrong with you?"  Seeking 'professional' answers for probably 20 years now, and I FINALLY have a teeny tiny bit of 'hope.'  And at the same time, the thought of "it's never gonna change (at least in my lifetime)".  Once again, you'll "just have to deal with it."

I imagine a dog chasing it's own tail.... it chases itself in circles so fast and repeatedly that it eventually passes out from dizziness and exhaustion.  After some time, it finally awakes from this 'coma'.  But before it even stands up on it's feet, begins chasing it's tail again.  The cycle repeats, every day, every year, going nowhere but in circles.  The dog eventually dies from malnourishment, because it's so consumed with chasing it's own tail, that it never knew to stop for a moment to eat or drink.

[alovelycreature]

Just how the heck are we supposed to "get help"

I've been so mad about this lately myself. I have been reading The Body Keeps the Score, and they discuss how they won't study treatments for CPTSD. I have a feeling it's because it's for several reason... but mostly for money. I've also noticed that with other diagnosis that are OFTEN given to people with little privilege (low socioeconomic status, minorities, etc.) also have no clinically effective treatment... but they do prescribe tons of drugs!

I live very close to a city area, and there are no therapists I've been able to find that treat CPTSD. It surprises me that no one has decided to focus on this for treatment. However, taking privilege into consideration, I'm sure many cannot afford to pay for therapy or their insurance won't cover it. It's very sad and angering.