arpy1's journal

[arpy1]

now i have a decision to make and i don't know what i want to do... so i am going to use this space to talk myself through it.

i went to see my GP today, struggled to get there, narrowly controlled a panic attack in the waiting room, and embarrassingly, sat and cried all over the poor chap (again) when i finally got in to see him. god, what a wuss 

i told him about the last couple of weeks of nightmares, EF's, etc and he disagreed that it was probably mostly due to the changeover to citalopram, which is what i have been thinking.

he would like to refer me to the psychology service with a covering letter describing the ptsd symptoms i have been experiencing as a way of getting some help from someone at least some way qualified/experienced in trauma treatment. when i told him the last NHS therapist i had, had refused to talk about the cult experience, he was shocked and said that he felt that that was the main problem. so there is a chance that if he words the letter properly he might be able to get me in with someone who can actually help with it. if there is such a person...

he basically doesn't think i should carry on as i am, trying to do it on my own.  which i can see the sense of because in fact i am aware that i am not coping terribly well without help. 

my fears are that i will have once again no control over the kind of treatment that i am given.  that's what happened the last time i went with the NHS services. the therapist was 'blank screen' type, wouldn't, as i say, talk about the JP at all - and becos i was getting traumatised every time i saw her, she decided that i was 'resistant' and would be better with group therapy, the thought of which was too terrifying to contemplate. becos she said that was her 'professional opinion' she refused to offer me anything else. if that kind of mismatch disaster happened again, i don't think i would cope.

so i have to decide whether to let my GP proceed with a referral. i am freaking out about it at the moment but i have to let him know today if i can.  is it worth the risk of another bad experience? can i carry on, realistically, trying to work this out by myself? i guess i can always walk away again if it turns out badly but one does tend to risk getting a reputation as 'resistant' when one has done that a few times.  i may find i am shooting myself in the foot.

ok, not really any closer to a decision.  maybe i can leave it a few days. i hate decisions 

[Dutch Uncle]

Dear arpy1,

If you want to talk about the cult with a trauma-specialist, you can and should say so. You are the one seeking treatment. You decide on your wants and needs.
Yes, very difficult for us CPTSD-ers. But true nonetheless. I think.  (compulsory disclaimer: I'm not a healthcare professional)
Didn't you find somebody (a researcher?), who was specializing in the traumatic events of cults? Could the NHS cover treatment with her? Would she possibly be able to refer you to someone-in-the-know around where you live?
edit: here it is:

i remembered something else.  i was watching recently a lady called Gillie Jenkinson, she is a psychotherapist in UK who specialises in exit counselling for ex-cult members. 

Yeah, the last therapist was horrible, and a very nasty experience for you. I do want to say to you, and remind you of, how well you handled it in the end.
We'll be here to cover your back.



PS: this section might be of help with "finding a therapy/therapist" for you: http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?board=176.0

PS2, second edit: typo. (someone-in-the-now--> someone-in-the-know. Sorry for being such a stickler, but I think it actually matters here.)

[arpy1]

You decide on your wants and needs.

i just emailed my doc and told him i need more time as this whole thing got so triggering that i just spent the afternoon in a major panic  and had to take a valium and go to bed.

i felt so overwhelmed with terror and a sense of total powerlessness, which i think came from the 'blank screen' style therapist experience. (the second (private) T was the one i sacked becos of confidentiality and boundary issues.) how weird that even things in my recent past have now somehow turned themselves into triggers that can flash me back into these desperate feelings.  how did that happen??

so. i feel calmer now (thank god for valium... i hate the stuff but i need it sometimes).  i still don't know what i am going to do, but i realise having gone through this today that actually i might be a lot more poorly than i am allowing myself to believe. perhaps i have to just accept that i need some help and take the risk.  even tho just contemplating it threatens to send me back into EF, right now. i'll see how i feel tomorrow.

btw, Gillie Jenkinson is a private T and is miles away.  i doubt very much whether the NHS would stand the cost of a referral to her, or to any private practitioner. i might mention it to the GP just in case tho, as it could be an idea.

this really sucks. 

We'll be here to cover your back.

thank you dear Dutch Uncle. i need and value that support more than i can say. 

[Dutch Uncle]

 
Take your time.

[arpy1]

ok, that was a bad bad night...      but i think, a few hours sleep and i can see a bit clearer what happened yesterday. here goes:
i think what it was about was powerlessness. which generates levels of plain terror in me that are way out of proportion to whatever triggers me into feeling powerless in situations. 

in the JP i learnt very early on that to have any sort of personal wishes, preferences, desires, etc was sin. unless of course they were in line with the required wishes preferences and desires of a good sister in the church.  so for years i was in a position of total powerlessness and not allowed to think that that was wrong. as a woman you were 'in submission' to men... that meant not only leaders but all men, even the youngsters.

in  my marriage, my needs were not even on the list, not becos of authority/submission stuff (we didn't really do that in our marriage) but becos my ex made sure by every manipulative means that his emotional wishes and needs were paramount and got met.

i realise that in both those lives, both situations, to get my needs met, or even to ask for them to be met, was a question of getting sufficiently desperate, begging like a needy supplicant, with great shame about needing in the first place -and then taking whatever was offered, gratefully, without being able to question, reject or in anyway not take on board what was given.  becos it was wrong to need, and it was selfish to not be grateful and sinful to not submit to what i was told.  i'm not explaining this very well, but i know what i mean.

so in essence for me to need or ask for help of any sort is full of fear, shame and most importantly powerlessness.  i have no choice about anything. i have to be the 'done-to' person. that is all i know.

hence, with the first therapist, her style was so exactly similar to how it was in the JP when you approached an elder for help or counselling - sort of 'i am in charge, what i say goes, take it or leave it, but if you don't take it, it's you that are the problem not me becos i am the Leader here and i bring you the word of God'.    i could never have disagreed with her or questioned her style. and when i tentatively did, she fell back on the 'well that is my professonal opinion'... no room for discussion or choice for me then. no wonder she still engenders such terror in me.

the second therapist was different, but subtly, she still held the power, by giving me time i didn't ask for, and making me beholden to her even tho i told her it made me uncomfortable.  and by manipulating the situation into more than therapy - i think she needed a friend, and gave me lots more info about herself and her other clients than was appropriate. but becos of my fears and powerlessness i never had the courage to challenge her. 

this is not about them, really it's about me and powerlessness. that's why i am so terrified of going down the NHS route. becos i will have no choice and no right to question or state what i feel i need, rather than just accepting gratefully what they offer becos i am too poor to get what i really want privately (if i even knew what that was).  and from experience with the NHS, i know that if i do kick up and push for what i feel i need, i will get myself a negative reputation and effectively shoot myself in the foot as far as further help goes.  i know this becos of having spent years trying to fight for proper treatment for my husband when i was married.

that's as far as i have got with this. i still feel very fraught, but at least i am starting to unpick it a bit. 

[arpy1]

well, that was a horrible, horrible few days.  horrible. possibly the fiercest emotional flashback i can remember in a long while and i just couldn't seem to get out of it.  thank god i woke up this morning feeling calmer. i am hoping that the worst is over. i feel totally bloody wiped. but calm. phew.

i gather then that the idea of trying therapy again, especially NHS, is obviously a problem to me!    good grief, and then some.

i spoke to my son and asked his opinion and he, wise as ever, said that he doesn't think i will get better from this on my own becos i think he feels that to try to do it myself makes me obsess too much (he knows me well... )

He said that he thought I should go for it, but take with me a file of all my research and basically say, 'this is what I think is wrong with me, can you help, are you experienced/trained/qualified?' If not, then walk away. If yes, then give it a few weeks and then reassess to see if it is working out. If not, walk away.

I can see that what he is saying is that I need to empower myself so as not to feel totally powerless like i felt with the last two therapists i tried.  This is a good idea.

However, the only hiccup may well be that people generally resent being 'told their job'... they are very likely to feel threatened if I go in there all assertive about what I think I need.  So I would have to have a lot of courage and assertiveness and confidence to pull it off.  And to pull it off in a way that doesn't alienate them.

I am not at all sure I would be able to do that at the moment. i feel very afraid contemplating it. it's crazy.

i emailed my GP and he agreed with David, and that any T worth their salt would be willing to listen and discuss what i have to say (hmmm...). so we are going to talk some more about it when i see him in a week or so.  i think i just have to go slowly on this, becos it is such a frightening trigger to me.  i don't want to repeat the experience of the last few days.

[woodsgnome]

Arpy1, I'm glad you're turning one corner; there will be more, but you're also better equipped to handle them now. Indeed, you seem to know you have to, as it's all about your recovery. T's can be your ally, but you've also seen that's not always true. The past is what you have to work with, and you're doing so as we all end up doing--slowly (and sometimes painfully). You also wrote:

"I can see that what he is saying is that I need to empower myself so as not to feel totally powerless like i felt with the last two therapists i tried.  This is a good idea."

Touche. Remember, you have two T's, sort of. The other and the most important--you. Now, too, you have more wherewithal you just couldn't access before. Part of that is just the strength of knowing you have one other ally now--us. We don't have the "professional" tag, but we can support you all the way. To be "very afraid", as you say, is natural.

You've seen the dark side of T, for sure. But as the GP put it:
"...any T worth their salt would be willing to listen and discuss what i have to say..." Maybe you should bring a huge salt block with? (sorry, couldn't resist--hearing you in this frame of mind feels good for us, too).

Wishing you all the best as you journey forward with this.   

[arpy1]

thank you for that, dear WsG.

Maybe you should bring a huge salt block with? (sorry, couldn't resist--hearing you in this frame of mind feels good for us, too).

heh heh  i was thinking more maybe just a pinch.... 

thank you for caring, it has been a bleak few days and it feels such a relief not to feel mad. 

[arpy1]

i am feeling, perhaps somewhat foolishly, proud of myself today.  my daughter rang me last night and we talked about needing to get out more.... she is so sweet and affirming, but she did say that she feels that being stuck at home all the time obsessing about trying to recover was not doing me any good (i suspect she and her brother may have been talking becos that's what he says too.) so she is encouraging me to try to get out and do more things that i like and also to start writing again. it is very frightening for me to think about this even tho there are certain things i do do, like the gym etc. i still never feel safe when i am out, especially if there are people about. 

however, i have to acknowledge that both the kids have been saying what i have known for a while. the last couple of months while i was changing meds have been bad in the sense that i have retreated rather than gone forward in this area, but it is time to start trying again.  like she says, it was only when she started to do the things she was afraid of that she began to feel that she had agency, and wasn't totally powerless.  she knows whereof she speaks. 

so, today, in spite of feeling a great deal of anxiety and panic, i went for a walk.  don't laugh, for me it was really something! i went for a short half hour walk round the streets near my home. in the sunshine. there were a few people around probably walking off their sunday lunch, and by the time i was nearly home i was feeling quite anxious again, but, i didn't bump into anyone, and the sky didn't fall and there weren't any lions in the street.

so i feel proud of myself, as i say.  not only that, but in 10 days time i am driving to pick up my daughter and she is coming to stay over with me one night, and one night at her dad's.  so - a couple of two hour drives and 24 hours human contact. more than i have done for over a year.  i feel very scared about it but i am looking forward to it too. 

still haven't quite made my mind up about the ptsd referral.  my kids both think it might help and agree that i can always walk away if it turns bad like the last times.  it feels like a huge thing to attempt it again, but i think i will probably do it. or at least, give it a trial.  watch this space

Possible triggers here maybe:

as i was talking to my girl last night and my boy this morning, i realised just how very blessed i am to have two such beautiful offspring. i don't know how it happened but they have turned into grown ups who are wise, and kind, and who love me very much.  i guess it's time i stopped fretting about them all the time (do mum's ever manage that though??) and realised they are strong and supportive allies whom i can be honest with. i have spent their entire lives protecting them from my emotional crap, trying to invest in them the skills i was never given and spare them from the worst of the damage done to me.  now, they are showing me that they can handle what i am going through, and give me wisdom and support, with a very gentle but firm honesty when they feel i need it. 

when they were born the thing i wanted most of all to be able to say of my kids was that we became friends.  and they have become friends.  they are strong, independent and they have their own lives, but they are my friends, and i am theirs.  i don't deserve it, i don't  know how it happened, but honestly, i just feel so grateful. 

[Dutch Uncle]

 

and

<--- your post so often make a smile on my face, that no matter how much you'll tell me "don't laugh", I just can't help it. You brighten up my day, more often than you probably realize.



Your kids are not an accident. 

[arpy1]

aaawww, thank you so much, i'm glad i make your day brighter!! 

[Dutch Uncle]

Me too. 

[arpy1]

oh dear, i am not being a lot of use to anyone else here at the moment. my mood has got very low the last day or so and i am having trouble doing anything at all again.  i think maybe changing meds might have not been such a good idea. or else the whole obsessing about whether to do therapy again is doing my head in. or maybe it's the continual 'community dreams' night after night getting me down.  or maybe none of the above and i just feel like crap at present.  let's go for the latter.  but boy, do i feel crap.

[Dutch Uncle]

Dearest arpy1,



, again.

And here, another  .

I hold you dear. Come what may.

[arpy1]

isn't it funny how each little accomplishment seems to have a sting attached to its tail?  that's how it seems at the moment.

after doing so well on sunday, i have been feeling unbearably depressed and thinking the unspeakable thoughts, so that i have increased the dose of citalopram i am taking to 30mg.  i don't know what the doc will say when i tell him, but i was so desperate yesterday, and the flashbacking was so acute that i did it anyway, and also took a couple of valium at bedtime which meant i still dreamed but they were less malign dreams. (and i don't think i woke up till 5.30am, so i must have slept six or seven straight hours. big bonus, that.)

so today i have been slightly less mad in my head. still pretty EF-ful but i managed them better, did a couple of jobs, and did some floor exercises too during a particularly bad flashback time - it actually helped where i couldn't get it together to do the 'steps'.  so i have managed to do at least something constructive in between feeling like my head was going to explode.

trouble is at the moment that whenever i stop doing/reading/watching i descend into EFs. i have to keep my mind constantly occupied or sleeping.  i haven't even been able to be much use on here, becos every little thing i read seems to trigger me.  i can't work out what went wrong really, i seemed to be doing ok, then, as i say, sting in the tail.

i am still wittering about whether i can muster enough courage to go for the ptsd referral. whenever i try to think about it, it plunges me into chaos in my mind.  such a lot of fear and negative feelings around the whole therapy thing now. but at the same time, i want help - i really don't want to stay like i am.  it is so frustrating to be so subject to these storms of mega-emotions.  i wish i could just be rational about it all but i don't know how to switch the feelings off, or at least turn them down a bit so i can make a sensible choice about what will be best for me. so frustrating.

how i wish i could start to feel better. i hate feeling this way so much. maybe it's true that i needn't feel guilty about it or beat myself up but i wish i could feel ok. i am so tired of it all.