What Can I Reasonably Expect from My Spouse? (Possible triggers)

[The Girl Who Was Me]

I had a really upsetting confrontation with my husband on Friday. I had my appointment with my therapist right after work.  In my therapy session, we dug pretty deep into some pretty painful stuff and the thoughts were still churning around when I got home.  My husband asked how my session was and I gave him the brief recap, which was fine.  We ate dinner and then he went to the kitchen to do the dishes and some tears from the painful stuff that was stirred up earlier in my therapy session started flowing.  Pretty soon I was sobbing quite heavily.  My husband came out and didn't even acknowledge my tears.  He just asked if our pet rabbit had had his medicine.   And when I shook my head no, he just went about getting the medicine, completely ignoring my emotional state.

I went upstairs to the bedroom, sobbing harder and harder.  And sitting there on my bed, I realized that I was shifting from tears of grieving about the stuff I had discussed with my T earlier in the day to an EF of how it felt when my grandmother (whose house I lived at from ages 9 to 17) used to ignore my pain and suffering, first when she knew I was being molested by her husband and did nothing to help stop it, and all through my high school years, when I now realize I was already starting to manifest symptoms of CPTSD and spent a lot of time crying, raging, wanting to hurt myself, and begging to be taken to therapy and she just shrugged and said she didn't know what I was talking about.  So, armed with this new self-awareness that part of what was making me so sad was feeling that my emotional needs weren't being met right now, in the present, in a very big step for me, I went back downstairs.  I asked my husband why he was ignoring the fact that I was obviously in a lot of pain.  I told him it hurt me that he didn't even ask what was wrong or if he could help or if I could use a hug. 

He got very defensive (crossed arms, keeping his laptop between me and him at all times) and pointed out that the previous week I had told him he can't just fix my problem. (This had been in response to my telling him I was feeling very isolated and lonely, but then telling him I felt bullied when his response to that was to march me in front of the computer and watch while I signed up for a class I had been considering taking, his rationale being that you can't sit there and feel sorry for yourself for being lonely if you aren't actively trying to do something about it.)  And so, I told him that yes, in the sense that there's no magic wand he can wave and instantly make my sadness go away forever, that's true, but that doesn't mean I don't need any emotional support when I'm going through this process of coming to terms with my CPTSD.  He says he finds it too frustrating that he's not allowed to try to "fix" me in the way that he knows how, but instead is just supposed to indulge me in letting me cry and feel bad.  He doesn't want to be part of the latter.  And he even asked me if I should stop going to therapy since, in his eyes, it just seems to be making me more upset.  I did get him to agree that next time I'm crying like that, he'll at least ask if I need a hug or if I need to just be left alone to cry it out.  But his tone seemed very grudging and condescending to me.  And he didn't give me a hug that evening, which was all I wanted.

I know it's hard to live with a person who is often sad and crying a lot, especially if you've never experienced depression or anything similar to have a point of reference.  And I know he didn't sign up for this, but I didn't either.  And I'd like to think I'd be more supportive if our roles were reversed.  Is it too much to ask?

[Jdog]

Hi, thegirlwhowasme-

I can relate to your story.  When I was going through the worst of my grief after my Mom's death and being triggered all the time, my spouse often freaked out.  In our relationship, if I am ungrounded she doesn't know what to do or where to turn.  It took me almost a year of working on myself in therapy,journaling, reading lots on cptsd and codependence, EFs, etc. until I could trust myself around her much at all.  I am glad that I stuck it out as our relationship is better than ever now (and I continue working on myself) but those were rough times.

I had to develop a ton of self compassion and daily used the "I am enough" mantra in order to cross that bridge to a more grounded state.  I wish you all the best as you figure out your own path and decide how to work within your own marriage while healing. 

[Dutch Uncle]

That is such a sad story, The Girl Who Was Me. 
To have missed out on the hug of someone so close by, both physically and emotionally, ouch!

I must say that I think you handled the situation very well. Both with the previous "you can't 'fix' me, stop trying"-talk, and this one. You are making quite clear what you need, in both cases. It's a pity your husband cannot deliver on it, yet. I hope he will, in time.

I know the urge to 'fix' things, it's a male trait, I know. (Though not exclusively a male behavior  ) It's very insightful of you to realize your husband is also navigating uncharted waters, and probably at times is unsure, uncertain of what action to take.
So, even in danger of trying to 'fix' things myself now: Could you at some time when you are not really in need of a hug ask him for one? If he then can't, it won't be bad, but if he can (and at some point he undoubtedly will) he'll experience that hugging you when you ask for it is actually very pleasant  , and that there is indeed nothing going on that he needs to 'fix'.

Just a thought. Discard at will.

And no, you are not asking too much, not by a long stretch. 

, by the sound of it you are very aware of what's going on. 

[arpy1]

hey, TheGirlWhoWasMe, i really feel for you. sending you a big fat or two

He says he finds it too frustrating that he's not allowed to try to "fix" me in the way that he knows how, but instead is just supposed to indulge me in letting me cry and feel bad.  He doesn't want to be part of the latter.  And he even asked me if I should stop going to therapy since, in his eyes, it just seems to be making me more upset.

the use of that word 'indulgence' with regard to emotion and showing emotional pain made me think.

i just wondered what his growing up situation was like, becos i know in families there's often taboos on certain emotions that colour the way people regard them. which may in turn colour the way he feels able (or unable) to cope with your emotional pain. (sort of like the old 'big boys don't cry' thing). underneath, he might be quite freaked out by it when it happens to you.

sounds like he really cares for you a lot and wants to help but when he can't stop the discomfort by doingsomething, he ends up just frustrated (and possibly a bit out of his depth?) and then angry;   and you end up feeling bullied and triggered. ouch, recipe for both of you feeling really rubbish.

i mean, i don't know what your relationship is like but maybe when you aren't feeling so bad, could you try talking to him about what you wish for from him, what he feels he can give etc?  maybe try and make a compromise plan you can both handle, that you can try out the next time you're in pain? it's just a thought, and it might help.   

and for the rest, i echo jdog's recommendation - a ton of self-compassion and the mantra 'i am enough'. that seems to me to be the most important bit, really.

anyway, whatever happens, much support to you and courage to keep going. i hope you are feeling better.

[The Girl Who Was Me]

Thanks for your words, Jdog.  It was especially good to read this:

I am glad that I stuck it out as our relationship is better than ever now (and I continue working on myself) but those were rough times.

My mind has been swirling with fear that I'm going to lose my relationship - either because I walk out because I feel like I need more support or because he decides he can't take it anymore.  It's good to hear that couples can survive this.

[The Girl Who Was Me]

Thanks for the virtual hug.

the use of that word 'indulgence' with regard to emotion and showing emotional pain made me think.
i just wondered what his growing up situation was like, becos i know in families there's often taboos on certain emotions that colour the way people regard them. which may in turn colour the way he feels able (or unable) to cope with your emotional pain. (sort of like the old 'big boys don't cry' thing). underneath, he might be quite freaked out by it when it happens to you.

That's actual interesting to think about.  My husband grew up with an alcoholic mother and a completely co-dependent father.  I don't know if it was as bad when he was growing up, but from what I've witnessed over the past 20 years, when his mother is drinking (which nowadays is really almost always), by the time she's several drinks in, she will end up weepy and bemoaning how mistreated she is and how unfair everything in the world is to her and so on and so forth.  She's a narcissist and extremely unkind to pretty much everyone around her (e.g. she once had the nerve to tell me that she could see why nobody in my family wanted me when I was a child), so it's a bit hard to have empathy for her when she's crying, especially since so many of her problems trace back to her drinking, which she refuses to address.  So now, in thinking about it, it might actually be the case that my husband's reaction to "weeping female" is to think of his mother. And then there's his dad, who just keeps enabling his mom's drinking even though she clearly needs help and he's clearly miserable and has told us as much. We've encouraged him to seek counseling for himself, even if she won't go, but he refuses and he also refuses to divorce her.   I think my husband sees his dad as very weak and not much of a man for enabling his mom to the extent he does.  So that may be why he thinks it's a bad thing to "indulge" me in my crying, even though my tears aren't coming from the bottom of a wine bottle.   Wow!  This is a big revelation - I can't believe I've never put this together before.  I don't know quite what to do with this, but it's an interesting set of thoughts.

Arpy1, you are so astute!

[Jdog]

Great connection between your husband's upbringing and his responses to you in the present.  Sounds like you have the beginnings of greater compassion for both of you. This is a critical element.  It took me a year to believe my therapist when she told me that everyone is always doing the best they can with what they know in the moment.  Seemed way to simplistic and also a way of excusing bad behavior.  But you know what?  I now believe that it is absolutely true.  And it makes me glad that people have the ability to grow and change as well.

You are doing amazing processing.  Congratulations!

[The Girl Who Was Me]

Thanks for all of your kind and reassuring words, Dutch Uncle. 

Could you at some time when you are not really in need of a hug ask him for one? If he then can't, it won't be bad, but if he can (and at some point he undoubtedly will) he'll experience that hugging you when you ask for it is actually very pleasant  , and that there is indeed nothing going on that he needs to 'fix'.

For the record, he's very happy to give me a hug any other time I ask for one, even if it's just because.  It just seems to be specifically when I'm crying that he doesn't want to.   I think he is really worried that a hug while I'm crying is somehow rewarding or encouraging unproductive behavior.  I've got to figure out a way to communicate to him that comforting me when I'm sad is not encouraging me to be more sad.  I don't like being sad either.  Rather, I see it as reassuring me that others still love me and I still have value and I'm not alone, even if I'm sad.  I mean, yes, it's true that in the absence of anything else, I am enough, but it's still not bad to know that someone else cares.

[Dutch Uncle]

I see, The Girl Who Was Me. Thanks.
Hoping and wishing the best for you.   

[Boatsetsailrose]

To the girl who was me

I have just come out of a 4 yr relationship and have learnt a lot so I'll share that it may help you ...

People said to me when I was in the relationship 'you can't change him' and I only really got that towards the end of the 4 yrs -
I used to shout a lot about what he wasn't and when that didn't seem to do any good apart from give me a headache I went to the extreme of accepting him warts and all - no matter what - I pushed my feelings aside -
I then reached some middle ground 'phew' and learnt to address things the day after when I wasn't so 'emotional' this also gave me a chance to really feel what I was feeling eg if he wasn't giving me what I needed I would feel that and then provide myself with something I needed - a hot bath - a call to someone - early nite
The next opportunity I would say I needed to talk with him and I would say what was the situation and see what the response was - could he have a conversation - could he provide understanding - if he couldn't what was he offering - was he bothered ? Was he drained ? Fed up himself
Friends say all men are the same I don't agree -

For me now if I am with someone we need to be able to talk and the other needs to be able to take responsibility for the relationship too
I do think it's true that men can retreat in themselves and not speak ( passive aggressive ) and also feel they need to 'fix' things when what we want is emotional support -
For me I expected too much I expected everything from him and I'm now learning that is not healthy I need friends and others too -
I also know the more I told him he was wrong not doing the right thing I must have been chipping away at his confidence and esteem

I think the bottom line for me was I was 'done' trying to solve everything - he was v passive I couldn't live with it anymore
I read an article recently that said 60% marriages end due to communication problems - that's quite astounding !
At the end of the day he didn't/ couldn't work on things I made some suggestions ...

Maybe he feels inadequate at helping you

We can only do the best we can in relationship at any given time but I have def learnt that love is something I can do when I'm not so dependent and needy on the other person - that age old saying
Learn to love yourself first '
Not saying that is your situation - just what I've learnt recently

[Boatsetsailrose]

Oh and learning to talk 'from me' rather than finger pointing creating a big positive change
Eg honey yesterday when I came in and you were watching the TV for 4 hrs - I wonder what was going on - was something going on for you

I used to say and I feel and what I need is ....

I started cutting the 'I feel out and just did the 'what was going on for you --- and see where that led .... Provided a good insight into his trust / ability to share - boundaries / investment in the relationship and value for me

So the response would normally be 'nothing I was fine
And then I would say 'I would have liked if we had spent a bit of time together ( and then that would make me think well why didn't I ask for that then !

I've learnt asking for what I need is a good thing - people aren't mind readers ( generally )
But then in relation to what u have shared you did ask - so it seems there are other issues going on -
Pull your socks up type attitude which may mean he is not able to be in his sadness

Just a thought ....

Women need to have emotional connection friends tell me they get it from their girlfriends as well as partner but for me I've just identified as being a gay women - so now I'm on a different street all together !

[steamy]

I think that it's easy to generalise about male/ female roles, like in that book men are from Mars women are from Venus.

I have only ever had one girlfriend who was like the women from venus.

I am a man who wants to talk about things, sometimes more than once before I can put it to rest. Perhaps being male and female types are like sexuality, a kaleidoscope, not black and white.

The girl who was me, I can completely identify with your situation, I have had two relationships where both partners have completely negated my feelings and depression.

I used to go to the gym a lot, apparently it really helps depression, but was told that if I can go to the gym I could go to work. Not much sympathy there.

It's difficult to tell what's going on as we don't know you both but it sounds a little to me like your partner is exerting control the crossed arms sounds like defensiveness, is worth reading "Fear of intimacy" by Firestone and Catlett we can often repeat relationships with parents with our partners, it feels comfortable to us. It's not really good to ask about "how therapy went" people can be shocked when you tell them that you spent time discussing them and how emotionally distant they are. When he says he wants to fix you, I interpret as I want you to stay the same but be happy, perhaps negating your efforts and those of your therapist. Nobody but you and your therapist will ever understand what you went through and what hard work you're having to do.

It seems that we are attracted to people who  subconsciuosly remind us of our patents and share a similar level of mental health, usually when we get better and our partner isn't in therapy themselves, they can hold us back. My ex used to say that she didn't know who I was any more - she "wanted the old me back!" Sadly, It should be borne in mind that sometimes we have to move on to reach greater levels of mental health and recovery. That is pretty well universally understood. Families can gang up to exert pressure on those who are breaking patterns of behaviour that they are all comfortable with. If ever you try to challenge those behaviours it will all be denied, refuted sometimes angrily and excuses made, sometimes they will reflect the accusation, after all we are the ones in therapy, that makes us the mad one, right?

I proposed that my partner was teaching my son bad patterns of behaviour this weekend, i was playing my guitar and she didn't like it, so she grabbed my son and took him downstairs. we are only talking to each other now because I asked her for a hug. Partners can really be our biggest obstacle.

[Boatsetsailrose]

Thank you steamy
Yes black and white thinking can come through and makes me reflect on my 'learnt opinions '

[The Girl Who Was Me]

It's not really good to ask about "how therapy went" people can be shocked when you tell them that you spent time discussing them and how emotionally distant they are.

This is true.  I definitely give my husband the "abridged" version of my therapy sessions.  When I told him I was seeking out therapy, his first response was to sigh and say, only half-jokingly, that he supposed the therapist was going to tell me to dump him.  I have to spend a lot of energy boosting his confidence that the therapy is about healing me and giving me more tools to deal with the ongoing ramifications of what happened to me when I was young.  It's not about disparaging him. 

When he says he wants to fix you, I interpret as I want you to stay the same but be happy

Definitely this.  He thinks "staying the same" is good because from his perspective, things have been good.  He doesn't know how many feeling I've been hiding from him to avoid judgment, avoid a fight, avoid crying, etc.  He only sees the surface and thinks the surface "ain't broke, so why mess with it?"  I've been trying to get through to him that asking me to say the same means asking me to stay in a lot of internal pain, that I'm still feeling that pain, even if I try to hide it on the outside.  We're making progress on this in baby steps, but it's hard.   

Thanks for your feedback, steamy.  You make some very astute points.

[papillon]

Not wanting to thread-jack, but I think this is an interesting topic and would love to see the conversation continue...

I'm curious about the experiences of anyone in a similar situation who has sought couples counseling? Or if anyone has asked their supporter to seek counseling?

Will you tell us about your experience? Was it helpful? What kinds of tools has your partner learned to help support you? Do you find that you are able to communicate your needs effectively?

All I can think is how terrifying it must be for them to be our partners in healing when they may not fully understand what's going on with us or have the right tools to help us and to protect their own mental health. It's scary enough being inside our own heads and we (at least vaguely) understand what's happening to us... I imagine that being an observer to the anguish of someone you love would be overwhelming.

I ran across this resource a while ago and while it doesn't specifically address cPTSD, I find it to be helpful. http://www.dabs.uk.com/information/guidance-for-partners-of-survivors-of-childhood-abuse